[kerrybean]

It seems like most of the folks who are unhappy with VT have one or the other (or both!) of the following complaints:
1. The winter
2. The economy/lack of jobs/high taxes/way the state is run

So I wonder if any of them look at the other New England states (throw in upstate NY for good measure) and say to themselves, "Now that's a place I could be happy in." Or are the above issues common to NH, ME, etc as well as VT? Alternatively, for the happy Vermonters, why did you pick (or stay in) VT as opposed to ending up in one of the other NE states?

My DH & I (retirees, not wealthy) are exploring a possible future move to New England, and we are looking at Vermont first. For all of you, the happy, the unhappy, and the in-between, if your choice was to remain in VT or move to any other NE state (upper NYS thrown in), what would you choose to do and why? (Let's pretend the move would cost you nothing. Might as well make this a pleasant exercise...)

[Sherylcatmom]

Originally Posted by kerrybean

Alternatively, for the happy Vermonters, why did you pick (or stay in) VT as opposed to ending up in one of the other NE states?

I probably could be happy in any number of New England towns and smaller cities. I ended up in Vermont because when I met my husband that's where he was living, and he had more ties here than I had in SW NH. But I was happy in SW NH, too.

Though we like other aspects of coastal New England, we prefer to be farther from the coast because neither of us likes humidity, regardless of the season. Also the coastal towns tend to be more crowded than we prefer, especially in summer but really all year. Still, if I found myself in the Portland, ME area or the Mass. North Shore, I'm sure I could be happy there, too.

[kerrybean]

It's nice to hear that you are happy where you are, Sherylcatmom, and know other places that would work for you, too. I couldn't agree more with you about humidity! That's something I hope to get away from. For the first time in my life I am trying to make a well-researched, conscious choice about where to spend the rest (hopefully) of my life (in conjunction with DH, but I'll speak for myself). Which is why I'm curious about how various Vermonters view the other parts of New England in contrast to their current location.

[MRVphotog]

For Vermonters who find #2 an insurmountable obstacle to happiness I would think NH might work better. No sales tax, no state income tax but they do get you with other fees, taxes plus with cities like Nashua and Manchester which offer a broader choice of job opportunities.

I have spent alot of time in Maine and they pretty much complain about the same things but Portland is a real nice small city which offers more vs Burlington. South of Bangor and on the coast very dependent on tourism.

Vermont, in general, can be a tough place to live economicly. Most of us do make sacrifices to live here, happily I might add speaking only for myself , you have to sometimes have to get creative, it's not for everyone.

[mustmove]

#2 is the big problem. I recently moved to MA and I'm OK here, much better economic situation, schools are better, plenty of outside recreation opportunity. I don't agree with the politics of MA, but then I don't agree with the politics of the Northeast. Beware VT taxes retirees in a bunch of ways. As to upstate NY some of it is nice some of it is a rust belt. Beware of retiring to one of the upstate NY resort areas some of them might not be all that enjoyable in winter when everyone else goes away.

[LisaMc46]

I'd probably live in Providence, RI. My dh used to live and work there before we were married and I thought it was a great little city, historic yet modern at the same time with great parks and lots of things to do. It offered more job opportunities than Vermont at the time, however, I've read recently that unemployment is now approaching 9 percent.

Honestly, if you're approaching retirement and have a good nest egg problem # 2 shouldn't affect you. You just need to figure out if you could be happy with the harsh weather and high taxes. Personally, I don't want to deal with either when I'm a senior citizen so I can't picture myself retiring here. But in Stowe, where I work, there are many happy retirees. Most made their fortunes elsewhere, sold their homes in NY or MA for a huge profit and paid cash for their McMansion reproduction farmhouses in the mountains.

I would definately rent in Vermont for a year or so before you decide to move here permanently. You can't get the full feel for the place when you're on vacation. I think you have to deal with the day to day stuff (good and bad) before you can make a truely informed decision.

That being said, I don't regret my decision to move from NJ to Vermont because I believe I'm offering my children a much better quality of life than I could have provided them there. Still the harsh economic circumstances and the constant feeling that I'm treading water financially despite working very hard has worn me down a bit. I would consider moving (probably south to NC) but I have a feeling that things are starting to fall apart economically everywhere so I'm staying put for now.

[flu189]

Lots of factors can come into play on where to live in New England. First of all, if you have real issues with winter then you should probably look elsewhere because all of the northeast experiences real winter. Of course New London, Ct is milder than Limestone, Me, but it's still winter. Next you have to factor in economics. If work is essential then based on what you do will establish geographic parameters. I have friends and family in all six New England states. With the exception of two that are retired (in NH) the rest live where they do due to their employment situations. If you are retired then the choice falls into what features of an area you value and enjoy, your ability to afford the area, and maybe special needs such as access to medical facilities to deal with acute or chronic conditions. Regarding Vermont, it's not so much outward unhappiness, but economic pressure which can strain you. For many securing dependable employment with a desired or necessary wage is an ongoing ordeal. Even retirees who do not depend on employment are feeling the strain as many have lost a sizable chunk of their interest bearing investments which can really alter lifestyle options. Right now many people who wish to relocate are stuck due to economic realities. Even moving to a lower cost area requires money and income and right now the vast majority of the country is in trouble. Finally, your preferences on personal matters such as religion and politics should be factored in if it is a very important criteria.

[ex-springfielder]

I moved to Maine a year ago after living my entire life in Vermont and I'm liking the move a lot. I moved for a job offer not the weather as the winters are the same here. I'm 20 miles outside of Portland so I have many more choices as far as social activities and events yet I'm still living in the country away from city life. Taxes aren't much different and vary from town to town, I can tell you that the property taxes on my house in Springfield Vermont were about $4500 per year and going up, my new house in a small town in Maine are just over $1700, but the same house in say Old Orchard or Portland would probably be about $3600. I drive 16 miles to work by choice, the shortest drive I had in the past 15 years in vermont was 36 miles each way. Vermonts taxes are high, the economy is horrible and the state government is anti business so few new opportunites are coming. Most of the economy is service based either government jobs or low paying tourism. You need to drive an hour and a half to have any decent shopping or to Boston for your fix of city offerings such as ball games or museums or big name concerts. Thers' a big difference in northern and southern New England both in population and weather, the southern portions winters are much less severe with much less snow, their spring arrives weeks earlier and winter weeks later. Vermont is a beautiful state but a tough one to live in unless you're totally into outdoor activities like hiking or cross country skiing, you'll only be able to afford downhill skiing if you work at a ski area. On the plus side vermont is clean, relatively safe and you'll seldom have to battle traffic, but I find the same here in Maine and I do enjoy being near the coast. When I retire I hope to spend my winters someplace warm, I've seen enough snow and cold to last a lifetime.

[kerrybean]

Originally Posted by MRVphotog

For Vermonters who find #2 an insurmountable obstacle to happiness I would think NH might work better. No sales tax, no state income tax but they do get you with other fees, taxes

I wish the tax issue wasn't so confusing (heck, I wish life wasn't so confusing!). Sometimes it sounds like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, when it comes to VT vs NH. We are concerned about that aspect of the cost of living, but at least we don't have to worry about job opportunities. Thanks, MRV. Now I have to do multiple replies to others, because I don't know how to quote various people within one reply. Sorry, guys!!

[JM1822]

Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys think a person would need to make to live in Vermont? Everyone talks about low paying jobs, but what do you think a family would need to make to live comfortably?