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Old 04-10-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Vermont
32 posts, read 86,449 times
Reputation: 24

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I'm curious about something...
So many complain about the property taxes here (yeah, I know how high they are, we own our house) and are complaining about how it all goes to education.
Vermont is one of the best states (if not THE best state) for raising autistic children. I suspect it's one of the reasons our education costs keep rising (special needs programs are very expensive). Yet people with special ed kids keep moving to the state.
Do you good folks believe we should abandon those kids so you can have lower property taxes?

And why so many posting here that left Vermont with no warm and fuzzy feelings towards it but feel the need to post in the Vermont forum... you left. What? Do you miss it? Why are you still here?

 
Old 04-10-2009, 12:53 PM
 
894 posts, read 1,287,934 times
Reputation: 259
Why should I pay for others special ed, when they aren't contributing to gifted programs for my kid? Who is going to provide more value to society? Being wealthy and paying more in taxes is providing more to everyone else.
As to folks posting here, well it's the giant wasteland of internet opinion enter at your own risk. Besides there are only three basic types: 1. Defenders of VT, regardless of any negative factors; 2. VTers that are contemplating escape; 3. Folks wondering if they should move to VT.
I suppose I should quit posting here as I successfully escaped, although I still own a house in VT, more reason to stop posting. Hey interweb Vermont is great move on up and buy houses.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 03:17 PM
 
159 posts, read 349,876 times
Reputation: 163
Do you have a special ed child or are you in education. Vermont is #1 in the country for taxes per capita, how does the rest of the country do it for less and vermont can't. Every year we have someone try to place the guilt trip on us with talk about taking from the children. We support our children very well but no, we will not starve or lose our homes to pay for a bloated education system, and if we have to we will move where we have better opportunities to have something left over for ourselves.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,960 posts, read 22,280,061 times
Reputation: 9075
It is not my responsibility to care for your children.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Vermont
32 posts, read 86,449 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustmove View Post
Why should I pay for others special ed, when they aren't contributing to gifted programs for my kid? Who is going to provide more value to society? Being wealthy and paying more in taxes is providing more to everyone else.
As to folks posting here, well it's the giant wasteland of internet opinion enter at your own risk. Besides there are only three basic types: 1. Defenders of VT, regardless of any negative factors; 2. VTers that are contemplating escape; 3. Folks wondering if they should move to VT.
I suppose I should quit posting here as I successfully escaped, although I still own a house in VT, more reason to stop posting. Hey interweb Vermont is great move on up and buy houses.
Laughable. Look up Einstein. Newton. Bill Gates. Spielberg. When your kid matches their accomplishments, look me up.
Any better arguments?

And yes. I have a special ed. kid. She has the same diagnosis as some of the men I mentioned. And we are in an upper income bracket in this state. So our nice house costs us a pretty penny too.

I'm not here to to defend Vermont against all negatives. I am aware of them. But there seem to be a whole batch of folks on this forum that don't live here but whine about how horrible it is and why they left. So they left. I'm happy if they're happy. But is hearing themselves whine about how much they hated a state they don't live in really that much fun?

ETA: I guess what I am thinking is... I was so glad when I left my last state of residency and came back to Vermont. I couldn't wait to get away. Absolutely hated it. I wouldn't dream of visiting the forum of said state... I hated it. What benefit would it serve me to be reminded of a place I loathe? So, what benefit/enjoyment do you get from visiting a forum on a place you are so happy you left?
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Vermont
32 posts, read 86,449 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
It is not my responsibility to care for your children.
Did we pay for yours?

ETA: Okay, so artichomesteader is male and single. Let's assume no children. So, you don't want to pay for ANYONE's kids. Good luck finding that state. Do you visit every state's forum and say the same?
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,960 posts, read 22,280,061 times
Reputation: 9075
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWands View Post
Did we pay for yours?
No, I went to private schools because the public ones were so horrible. So, my family paid twice for my education (and my brothers'). If I have children they will be homeschooled, they won't set foot in a government school.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Vermont
32 posts, read 86,449 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
No, I went to private schools because the public ones were so horrible. So, my family paid twice for my education (and my brothers'). If I have children they will be homeschooled, they won't set foot in a government school.
See above.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 05:03 PM
 
1,135 posts, read 2,051,730 times
Reputation: 1486
Default No one is disputing the value of a good education

Many people who post on this board are questioning why we pay a higher education tax than other states that provide an equally good education.

For example, my sil lives in Wake County, N.C. where she pays $3,500 a year in taxes on a 5,000 square-foot McMansion. The Wake County schools consistantly perform at the top of the U.S. Addtionally, there are charter schools and speciality schools such as a science high school and a performing arts high school that your children can apply to. And there are gifted programs as well as special ed programs. Additionally, they have excellent programs for kids with autism. One of my husband's coworkers relocated there a few years ago because of the opportunities available for his autistic child.

It is a county-wide school system, which is less expensive to run. I don't see why Vermont can't have a similiar system given its small population. Do we really need over 80 school districts?

Here, in Vermont there are few programs for gifted students. While there is an excellent support system for parents of autistic children in Burlington there is very little in rural areas. I've volunteered at the local elementary school for years and observed that most of the autistic children are simply paired up with para educators who shadow them all day. I'm sure they would make more progress in programs specifically geared toward their needs.

I'm not impressed with the school system here (Lamoille County). Teachers are forced to dumb down the curriculum so everyone can pass the NCLB standards. My friend's son who has down syndrome and can barely hold a conversation is on the honor roll along with his younger sister who earns straight A's without trying and is terribly bored. What does this say about standards and grading.

I could go on forever, but I'll give it a rest. I am a mother. I want my children to have the best education possible. I don't want to continue to pay top-dollar for a system that IMO is substandard.
 
Old 04-10-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,960 posts, read 22,280,061 times
Reputation: 9075
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWands View Post
ETA: Okay, so artichomesteader is male and single. Let's assume no children. So, you don't want to pay for ANYONE's kids. Good luck finding that state. Do you visit every state's forum and say the same?
Okay you added some more...

Even if I had children my answer would be the same. I don't want the government involved in education. I will not send any children I have to a public school. Ever. I will educate them myself (and I am more than qualified to do so). Once again your children are not my responsibility. If a person can't afford to care for children they should rethink having children.

I've seen the public school system from the inside out, as I initially wanted to be a teacher, and did so shortly. The schools are incredibly wasteful and treat taxpayers' money with no respect whatsoever, they inject far too much politics into the classrooms, and they'll do whatever necessary to make most students pass, even if it's with a D- level grade. Out of a classroom of 25+ students there may be a few who can truly read well. The rest are lucky if they can read an entire paragraph without having to sound out several words, stumble, etc. (we're talking highschool students here!). In fact the literacy rate was higher before public schooling became common. The increasing involvement of the government has resulted in worse and worse education, as the goals are now just to make things look good on paper for the government bureaucrats. People before tax-funded schools became common sent kids to private schools, hired tutors, got families together and funded a school themselves (no government involvement), or homeschooled. It worked. We've dumped more and more money into schools (mainly because of the pull the teachers' unions, particularly the NEA, have) and have gotten worse and worse results. Many of VT's schools look good on paper but in fact fail at turning out educated people. I could probably write a book here on what's wrong with things but others already have and they've gotten no results, because at this point there's nothing that can be done until the unions are broken up.

It's not quite what I want in this respect as the state still has public schools but funded a bit differently than in VT, but, where I will be moving to in Alaska is an unincorporated area in the Unorganized Borough (no local government). I have no property taxes on my land (besides there being no state income tax or sales tax) so, no, I won't pay for educating others' kids. On the bright side, AK has the best homeschooling laws in the country, if I do have children. The schools there have little power over people, unlike here where they have a stranglehold on the state and are the main reason for the crippling taxes.
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