[Greywolf37]

Hello ,

Thinking of moving to vermont and need some truth told. Please if you are dead set against "FLATLANDERS" , I don't need negative words. I currently live in Asheville, NC ( Not flatlands at all ) , and grew up mainly in New Jersey. So I'm not afraid of long, cold winters. ( Love them actually ). What I wanna know is....
1. How is the economy right now, and where in VT is it best?
2. How is the area for starting a small business such as Cafe' or Bistro?
3. Where would this type of business thrive?
4. How enjoyable is life in vermont , especially for children?
5. And exactly how bad is the Cost of Living ( COL ) ?

I am a 37 year old single dad with 2 teenage children. Girl and Boy , 15 and 13. Yeah I know, it's tough. I have over 16 years in the Food Industry, the last 10 as Management. So starting a small business of my own is a goal. However, I may hold off if the restaurant manager market is good in vermont. ( You can always learn more right? ). And it gives me a chance to see the industry in person. Vermont has been on top of my list for years , but my work has taken me further south. ( Go figure ). The job market here in Asheville is horrible. For the last 2 weeks the Classifieds have posted exactly 0 jobs. None. In any field. NOTHING!!!! So if I'm to gamble here, I can gamble anywhere. And why not gamble where I want to be. So basically , a truthful, unbiased opinion is what I'm looking for. Any information would be helpful. As far as jobs there, are there jobs in the food industry. I am very good at what I do. I am very much a people person , and have always been great with my staff. Is vermont a good place to go right now. I am looking at Burlington mainly right now, looking to make a move in the next 3 weeks. Please respond back. Thanks.

[Summerz]

I'm a flatlander that used to live in the Rocky Mountains lol.
Seriously if I was you I would check out other states for now.
Wishing you all the best.

[arctichomesteader]

Just don't try to flatten VT.

As for your questions...what economy? I don't see one. Not entirely joking either, it's really that bad economically in VT. Cost of living is quite high, largely because of taxes and the cold winters and heating bills. The state government is full of socialist minded politicians who don't create particularly business friendly laws, regulations and taxes (probably one of the main reasons the economy is bad...see, unlike other areas, there was no boom in VT, hasn't been a real boom in VT since probably the 19th century, and now the economy is sliding below what it was, with absolutely no signs of recovering...the truth is the state is broke and just hasn't accepted that yet). Bleak picture, but you need to know the harsh reality of the economy in this state...maybe you can pull it off but be aware the odds are stacked against you. I don't know of many people willing to spend their money right now at expensive places to eat out. People who ate out a lot a couple years ago are hardly doing so now, or going to cheap places like mcdonalds. I never eat out and get quite a bit of my food by growing it or hunting it. Most don't have a lot of money to waste on luxuries right now...

[Greywolf37]

Thank You all for the feedback so far. Everything is being taken into consideration. Perhaps you all are right. Maybe one day I will get up to Vermont ( Promise not to Flatten It!!). But it seems that now is not the time. I will keep my eye on it though , if things get better up there , then I will be moving up. Not saying anything is better here , it's not. Not anywhere really. The entire country is in trouble right now, some places a tad more than others i guess. How did we get here in such a short time????
Anyway , once again , thank you all. Not that I won't research some areas on my own , but any help these days is good help. So....have any of you heard of any areas that are doing ok, with decent COL, and good place to raise kids, with great education. ( I know it's a long shot, sure everyone would move to that mecca right? But seriously, any ideas? You all have been very helpful, and with me the advice won't be just a waste of your typing. Thanks again.

[flu189]

A large segment of Vermont's economy is in fact tourism based and during overall good times it can keep related businesses hopping. The problem right now is that combined with the national economic crunch and Vermont's internal fiscal policies and management, this would be a very risky time to try and launch here. Quite a bit will rely on tolerance for risk and what assets you have to not only get started, but to be able to weather through slow times. Right now a substantial amount of the population is even more frugal with their cash. Our cost of living is in fact high and the debate can go around and a around about that, but we have a state budget that is increasingly exceeding the capacity of revenue. Housing prices have not really dropped all that significantly and income remains flat while taxes continue to rise, hence discretionary income to support businesses takes a hit. Energy costs are also high and as we have seen over the past year can make a serious dent into family budgets. Do your research, visit, talk to people in the business to try and get a candid opinion, but realize that there really is no booming hot spot here at the moment. Finally, another factor which will continue the drag on our economy is that a high percentage of us who still have jobs are trying to save as much as possible to deal with rising costs for necessities and to try to replenish the hit our retirement investments have taken. I know that I have cut back on routine spending and put off purchases as have all my coworkers. It's sad that this impacts local establishments, but you can only spend what you can afford and this reality needs to be in the minds of folks running or starting businesses.

[GypsySoul22]

If you can have your own business, maybe you will do okay.

Otherwise I hope you like waiting tables or working in retail (if you are lucky) or just enjoy being under paid and underemployed.

Anyone who thinks 'people like me' make up this, no, I don't. Maybe you are doing great but there are plenty of us who ARE not. Did anyone see the front page of the Upper Valley News today? They did a profile of a guy with several degrees and his struggles to get gainful work. I feel bad for him but at least 'he's working.' My phone has not rung for an interview in months.

[autumnstar7]

Originally Posted by Greywolf37

Anyway , once again , thank you all. Not that I won't research some areas on my own , but any help these days is good help. So....have any of you heard of any areas that are doing ok, with decent COL, and good place to raise kids, with great education. ( I know it's a long shot, sure everyone would move to that mecca right? But seriously, any ideas? You all have been very helpful, and with me the advice won't be just a waste of your typing. Thanks again.

Parts of Texas seems to be doing pretty good. I'm not sure if that's a state you would want to live in, but if your just looking at the numbers...

[Flashback]

If any town in southern VT could support a cafe/bistro it might be Manchester Center. They have a summer, fall and winter client base.

Agree, it is a tough market to get started in right now. You have to be confident things will improve in the next year or two.

[Greywolf37]

Once again, thank you all. And just for the record, I am not doing wel financially. I lost my job in February and haven't worked since. My thought was that I could get a small business loan and open my own small eatery, seeing as that is my niche. By doing so I could give others employment and hopefully insure my future a bit more. These business owners I have been working for all own so many different businesses or franchises, that it's like watching them play a game of monopoly. They buy and sell property so much and so fast without thinking of the people that depend on those jobs they are basically selling. While my employees and I were depending on our paychecks to live, they sold a business for several million and the person who bought it, wanted to bring his friends in to run it and work it. Good for them, Bad for us. Anyway, I'm gonna stop there before I just go off on a tyrade. Once again, I appreciate all the info and advice given to me. I guess for now I will wait until a brighter outlook appears. Back to the rat race. Good Luck to all.

[arctichomesteader]

I wouldn't count on getting a loan for a risky venture especially with no source of income currently...