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The point I'm going to make is one that I could make on almost any given page at this site (that is, if I wanted to devote my life to this issue) because people are constantly attempting to compare the cost of heating or the cost of real estate or car insurance between one place and another. These comparisons are absolutely pointless. There's an old joke about a man who had himself frozen and reawakened a hundred years in the future. He'd left a small amount of money in an interest bearing account, so the first thing he does is run to a pay phone and call his bank. The bank tells him he has five million dollars and he whoops with joy and yells "I'm rich!" Then the operator cuts in and says "please deposit two million dollars for the next three minutes."
The point of my telling this story is that it doesn't matter in the least if real estate is cheaper in Vermont than in New York or car insurance is less than in Brooklyn. The ONLY thing that matters is the ratio between salary and expenses. This calculation is the only thing that will tell you whether your quality of life in a given place will be better or worse than where you are at present. Though I don't equate the amount of money one has with the level of happiness, living in rural New England for many years has taught me that being in constant fear and barely able to meet expenses is definitely not conducive to a high quality of life, even when surrounded by great beauty.
Other than that, if you're looking to move anywhere in New England (except metro Boston) you have to take into consideration the situation of the people who are offering the information you're using to make your decision. Rule number one: Chambers of Commerce and realtors want you to move here and spend your money. It's how they make a living. They know, better than anyone else, that most of the people they entice to come here will be gone in a few years and others will take their place. This is an indisputable fact of life in New England. If you know a hundred people who moved here from other places, five years later only one or two will still be here. Often they leave behind artifacts in the form of houses they can't sell that sit on the market, sometimes for years, draining their purses long after they've left. Rule number two: people who have been here for a long time and bought their houses in better times (and for vastly less money than you'll be able to) are in a situation that is in no way comparable to yours, so take that into consideration when you weigh their advice. They may have bought their houses for hundreds of thousands of dollars less than YOU will be able to buy a house. They may have paid off their mortgage and can therefore afford to pay the enormous property taxes that would cripple you, who would still have a mortgage to pay.
In beautiful places, like Vermont and Maine, people who move here from more prosperous places depart when the money they brought with them from elsewhere begins to run low, and they sell to people "from away" who are like they were a few years earlier. These sales (people leaving, people from out of state - who will in turn be leaving in a few years, or who are rich enough to buy and keep second homes - buying) are what keeps the real estate business going - to the extent that it's going at all. Natives of the area can't afford to compete with these people, having never had the higher wages that are paid in other places, so they often don't own a house unless they've inherited one.
My husband and I have lived in many, many places around the U.S. In all of these places, our standard of living had nothing at all to do with how expensive or cheap the cost of living was, but everything to do with the relationship between COL and what we could earn. We had the highest standard of living in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area and in Cranbury, New Jersey. In Pittsburgh, our salaries were below the national average for the kind of jobs we held, but not drastically so, and real estate and other costs were astonishingly cheap. In Cranbury (near Princeton, NJ) everything was very expensive, but our salaries, benefits and job security were exceptional and we lived extremely well. In Vermont, our expenses are as high as in New Jersey, but our salaries are $10,000.00 below the lowest range that one is expected to be paid for the jobs we do. In other words, a job that has a salary range, nationally, of $50,000 to $90,000 is paid $39,900 in Vermont. It is this discrepancy between wages and expenses that sends people out of New England after a few years, when they exhaust the savings they brought with them and really begin to feel the result of low wages. Benefits are something to consider as well, especially if there are any chronic illnesses in the family. Our health care policy in New Jersey covered everything; our health care policy in Vermont has a $5000 deductible and covers almost nothing.
What I've said reflects, of course, my own family's experience. It's not an uncommon one, which is evinced by the fact that most newcomers to rural New England are gone within a few years. I offer it in the hope that it will perhaps help a few people to arrive here with a clearer idea of what to expect.
Wow! Wonderful summary. I think you nailed it. You could insert Oregon for Vermont in the summary above and be exactly right. Beautiful places to be sure, but as they say in Ireland, you can't eat the scenery.
Act 250 was enacted in 1970, there have been many housing developements built in the Burlington area. When your on I89 passing the Taft Corners exit just look to the north and you'll see several. Your statement that there are no homes for sale due to Act 250 is utter nonsense. Act 250 does restrict large scale developement, no question about it but it doesn't eliminate it.
It's plain to see it hasn't completely eliminated it. However, Act 250 means that not nearly enough housing has been built to keep up with population growth. What you don't see are the multitudes of projects that were proposed and never got built.
The net effect of that builds year after year. The housing stock looks like it does because neither landlords nor homeowners have significant competition for renters or buyers. Homeowners that do buy have paid way too much and don't have the money to fix it up.
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Originally Posted by MRVphotog
Your example is definately not affordable but Jericho has a very high property tax rate. BTW, where in Jericho is there a home valued at $200,000 other than a condo/townhouse type of housing. If it's a large extreme fixer-upper on some acerage, that could account for such a big tax bill. Check Vermont's real estate listings, several homes in the $200,000 price range all over the state with tax bills in the $1200 range with the Homestead Rebate for folks making less than $90,000.
Sure, after the rebate, which is shell game. $1200 is what we were paying in upscale Cambridge, VT on a house assessed at $88K several years ago. $200K runs at least $2k before pre-bate. I've seen some breathtaking property bills in Essex on townhouses. Most people qualify for the Rebate, but to be frank the whole rebate thing simply skews the numbers and gives people little incentive to reign in school budgets. It also means that renters pay a disproportionate amount of taxes because their landlords don't qualify.
Most people qualify for the Rebate, but to be frank the whole rebate thing simply skews the numbers and gives people little incentive to reign in school budgets. It also means that renters pay a disproportionate amount of taxes because their landlords don't qualify.
I could not agree more. I feel the school budget/rebate issue is a big problem in this state. I am a landloard and I feel my renters are getting the shaft. I wish the rent could be much less than it is, but with a mortgage on the property and a big tax bill (that I don't get a rebate for), I have no choice but to pass the bill on to my renters. If anyone reads th VHFA reports, it is not hard to figure out what the problems are in the state. VHFA states it in their yearly housing report, Act 250 is the biggest deterent of development in the state. It's old and needs revision. Number two, school budgets add to our tax bills every year (our student costs are more than any other state per student). Many towns taxpayers face increases in their tax bills by several hundred per year. You can expect a good education in the state, but many other states with cheaper education costs offer better educations. The US Chamber of Commerse as well as the ICW U.S. Chamber of Commerce | Fighting For Your Business give us an average score for everything related to education including what the student learns.
For what it's worth, I agree that NH has a better job selection than VT due to its greater development. (but there are also downsides to NH) A job in Lebanon is probably the ideal. Good community, kind of VT-ish in nature, and good local economy.
I would not say schools are a lot better in VT I live across from Lebanon on the VT side and my school has problems with drugs and alchahol the same as Lebanon. The school other than the drug issues is good but even my school has funding issues.
I was idly reading the Craftsbury annual report and noticed that the school has 158 kids enrolled an 74 employees. Granted they are not all full time teachers and I don't live in the town but it seems pretty out of line. Is this about average for the state? I can definitely see why people complain about the school taxes. I just remember my kid going to school in TX where there are about 32 kids per class.
I am moving back to Indiana after two months in Vermont...
First let me say, Vermont is beautiful, actually breathtaking in some areas, but I have to say what I am going to say. I researched Vermont for a couple of years before coming here after receiving my degree in psychology. I want to say upfront that I do not regret my move up here because if I never came up, I would always wonder what it was like and possibly regret it if I didn't move here. Now I can say I came, saw, learned, and left.
After living here for two months (I realize that is not long, but long ENOUGH), I can honestly say I could not survive here. I am not a materialistic person nor do I spend money out my arse, however, compared to where I moved from (and I am not exaggerating), the groceries are almost double what I paid down in Indiana. The healthcare, at least where I am currently residing, is horrible! It is almost as if they are stuck in the 80s time frame with an uneducated staff. And quite frankly, if I had a true emergency, I would be worried whether I would survive it.
My electric bill about sent me through the roof for one month and I only ran two fans, no a/c, and used very minimal lighting (2 night light bulbs) at night. Wow! I don't even want to know what the fuel oil would cost me in the winter and I leave my house at 60 degrees, but something tells me my wallet would still be drained.
I do not consider myself a hyperactive individual, but the slowness here, I mean come on, really? Oh, and if you love Mexican food, as I and my sons do, do not move to Vermont, you won't get any! Guess I missed that in my research, LOL.
As far as jobs. Oh, boy! Up here, they wanted to pay me zilch, not much more than working in some grocery store. Seriously! I have a job waiting back down in Indiana where I am moving back to this week that will pay me $10.00 more per hour for the same work AND the cost of living in Indiana is BELOW the national average, not above like Vermont. Hallelujah!
I am not sure what people do to live here, but there has to be a lot of misery as far as struggling here and poverty. Why would anyone want to bother once you figure it out? I don't know. I am thankful that I do not live in poverty, but I would be if I stayed here. Again, Vermont is beautiful, but one REALLY needs to examine and re-examine things after moving here. It is a shame!
Just a quick reminder, before it comes up again, there is also no ocean in VT as well.....
So for the record:
No ocean
No "authentic" Mexican food
No real urban areas
No real solid public transportation
And things tend to cost more than some other place depending on what you are looking for and where you are comparing it to.....
How does "United States Welfare Office" sound? That's what Burlington is. You can't tell me all these NYC people have family here...
In Hawaii you have to be a resident for a year so you can't just get off the plane and sign up for benefits.
Vermont might start thinking about something like this also, especially with these warm winters lately.
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I am moving back to Indiana after two months in Vermont...
