[flu189]

I don't mean to be rude or mean, but if a move up here is conditional upon employment, then before arriving with your belongings and establishing residency it would seem to have been essential to get a very good feel and offer for work here in your field of expertise prior to making a costly commitment. Brattleboro, or any other place for that matter should not be evaluated by reputations based upon random sources and perceived reputations. I surly hope the move works out and you find enjoyable and gainful employment as otherwise a hasty move here followed by an exodus could be very costly both financially and emotionally.

[arel]

You are right, flu189.

Unfortunately, though, no one is interested in hiring me unless I am up there or have a date when I will be up there. I have inquired.

Fortunately, though, I will have enough money from the house sale to tide me over until I find something or decide I will not find something. If I do not find something within a year, or possibly withing 6 months, I may leave. I am not ready to retire and I am not willing to run down my nest egg.

Also fortunately, I have a profession that is usually in demand. So I'm pretty confident that I'll find something in my profession. I could be wrong, though, so I always make sure to have other options.

My goal is private practice, but a private practice takes time to build.

Ironically, I might have been able to get a very good job right here in Brooklyn, at a hospital where I did an internship. It was a great place to work then and I am told it has the same ambience now. But I don't want to be in Brooklyn anymore.

You're also right about the expense of a move. I've gotten movers' estimates.

One alternative, to cover my bases, is to arrange to have storage in Brookyn, rather than in Vermont. Then, if I want to stay, I can arrange to have my stuff brought up. And if I want to come home, I can just come home with the relatively little stuff I went up with. But do I want to move to Vermont with both feet or just with one toe?

If I really chicken out, the agency that sold my house can help me find an apartment right here in Brooklyn. But do I want that? If I wanted to stay in Brooklyn, I probably would not have sold the house!!!

I genuinely appreciate your concern, and I do not regard you as rude or mean. I feel happy and privileged that you are willing to speak to me as a concerned friend. I'm confident, though, that things will work out, one way or another, and I can change course if they don't. I'll keep you posted.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Hey, Arel, sorry that the Bratt job market is not looking good.

I think I'd leave my stuff in storage until the job situation got settled. Moving sucks, and moving twice sucks twice as much.

You might check out Keene, NH. I have a cousin who's a state agency SW and has been for years. She likes it. She loves living in Peterborough, it's an artsy town which may have a similar flavor to Bratt.

Have you looked in Mass? "Cross the border and salaries go up $10,000" is what they said in NH.

As I believe I mentioned many posts back, I got an offer working for the state of NH, out of Keene around 2002 for a salary in the low 30s (top of scale at that time), and I'd have had something like a two county area to cover. I was amazed and shocked that NH pay was so piddling compared to Arkansas, which was not cutting edge. Or maybe it was, considering CofL etc.

I would check the White Rivah Jct./Lebanon/Hanover area. The VA and Dartmouth-Hitchcock are there, both good hospitals from what I've heard, and the pay scale near Dartmouth College should be a little higher.
I would inquire at some private practice partnerships in the area (Brat, Hanover, or Keene), but that's just me. I am aggressively friendly and inquisitive, and I'm not above phoning perfect strangers with inquiries. All they can do is hang up or get heartburn.

Getting licensed in NH is not something I plan on doing again. Their licensure process is utterly retarded, but you just have to do it once. Can you say "repeating the 5th grade"?

I would also google VNA (Visiting Nurses), they are everywhere and they use social workers.
I got a lot of leads from BostonWorks.com. I even applied at MIT for a SW position. I never heard from them. Perhaps because I didn't attend Haavahd, or maybe they thought I was a toothless hillbilly who would be lost in geniusland, since we lived in AR at the time.

The feds may be hiring, with so many PTSD and other issues from the war. The pay scale and retirement is great. They may also be hiring contract people.

I liked hospice work and do it on a volunteer basis now. If you don't mind traveling, hospices can always use social workers. IMO hospices are somewhat less inclined to having seriously pathological staff, for some reason.
From my experience, psych hospitals are full of nutcases, from medical director down to the security people. I've had very sick schizophrenics tell me how whacked out they think staff is, and why should they do what some head case RN tells them when staff have more problems than the patients? I really didn't have an answer for him.
What could I say, yes my boss and half the SWs and docs, and 2/3 of nursing and security are certifiable, and yes the cleaning crew is all Bloods, and yes the Financial Director has public screaming fits every day, and the judge is a loose cannon with serious issues who dreams up drugs that don't exist and asks docs why they don't use them?

I'd sell cars before I'd go back to that nuthouse to work.

Good luck, something will turn up.

[arel]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I was thinking of the VA in White River Junction. I interviewed there, years ago. The psychologist who interviewed me was very pleasant, but he couldn't offer me anything because, at the time, I didn't have the clinical experience they needed. But I remember coming out of the building at dusk and being blown away by the visual beauty around me.

I know about Dartmough Hitchcock, and I also know they have a site in Keene. I also know there are mental health facilities in Greenfield and Northampton. And right in Brattleboro is an office of HCRS, which is based in Springfield. And who knows? I might get a job at the retreat and enjoy it. I'm told they value social workers there. But from what I have read, heard and experienced, I don't think a job at the Retreat would be a good fit for me.

The problem is not that the job market in Bratt is no good. It is only that the Retreat comes across as a very uncomfortable place to work. I don't yet know much about the other places. I do know, though, that there was almost a strike at HCRS about a year ago.

In terms of storage, I plan to put my stuff in storage in Vermont (in Guilford, where they heat the units in the winter and fan them in the summer - not quite climate control, but the best you can get in the area, I am told). I will rent in Brattleboro until I am sure I want to stay, at which point I will buy. If I get a good job up in the Upper Valley, I can either commute from Bratt or move north. Meanwhile, my stuff will be stored more affordably in Vermont than it would have been in Brooklyn. And if I want to get something, I won't have to drive 5 hours to get it and then 5 hours back.

There really is no place in Brooklyn I would want to live. I want to live in Vermont. I'll muddle through, somehow. If necessary, I'll move elsewhere after a while. I could leave my stuff in storage, or get rid of a lot of it. Most of my stuff is furniture and books.

My concern is not so much that I won't find work. It is that I may resent the income and the working conditions, and have few other options. I have been told that working at the Retreat is like a rite of passage for therapists who move into the Brattleboro area, but, to be honest, I don't want to work there if it is a hostile working environment. There are other places I can work. At this stage of my life I refuse to put up with bad treatment on the job. On the other hand, in a semi-rural area, you can't just pick up and leave like you often can in a big city.

I'll be fine, one way or another. I hope.

[flu189]

Arel, you made an excellent point in being cognizant regarding the need to safeguard your assets. I was pretty fortunate in the sale of my former home, but three years has really put the whallop on what I thought would be a great nest egg to grow and only draw from on occassion for emergencies or special projects. I did my research and secured a job, but did under estimate the totallity of costs here coupled with taxes. Then of course I had no way of knowing what a beating my retirement funds would take in the current markets which come October will be a year of pretty much sustained losses. I certainly try to keep a positive outlook and realize that we here in Vermont are not by any means alone when it comes to dreams and plans being stalled. I guess as with anything else in life it will just take time to wait out the storm and then make a rational and not impulsive decision on which course to chart for the future. My prime frustration right now lies with a legislature here which in talk claims to understand the worry and hardships folks are experiencing, yet they continue to twist the screws to make it even more difficult and take no overt steps to give us all a breather. We desperatly need more capital and responsible growth to generate quality and quantity jobs along with reasonable housing with lower tax burdens so folks and their families can grow for the future. In any case, good luck with your arrival, job prospects, and getting your first winter under your belt.

[arel]

I'm moving from NYC so I would think that my living costs in Vermont will be lower than what they are now. But I definitely am concerned about the high cost of living and low salaries.

Thankfully, I have a profession that I can use in a variety of jobs, and can also practice privately. And the skills are transferable to a variety of other jobs, if necessary. So I am reasonably confident I can survive in Brattleboro and even do well.

My real fears are running down my nest egg, feeling trapped in a job I hate and winter driving at night on unlit, hilly, curvy and slippery rural roads, with deer. I'm used to well-lit streets laid out in a grid. With urban traffic there may be annoying congestion, but there are no deer. I don't mind rural driving during the day, but I have to get used to rural driving at night. I don't even like to drive I-91 or I-95 at night where there are no streetlights. And I avoid the Merrit and Cross Parkways in Connecticut at night, because they are dark and also have deer.

I have bought bilberry supplements to improve my night vision.

Oh, and then there are those steep drop-offs.

I'll really feel my Brooklyn roots when winter comes.

[vter]

Arel, don't assume that your COL will be lower. I lived in Boston for 6 years before moving back here and my COL is about the same. Granted, NYC is a wee bit more expensive than Boston, but I wouldnt just assume that. I hope this move works out for you! You've certainly done your research. Good luck!!

[arel]

When I have visited Vermont, I have been struck by how high prices are. They are only slightly lower than prices in New York. So, vter, you may be right

And salaries are also lower, much lower, than in New York. A COL may be lower, but if the salaries are lower to a greater extent than the COL is, then you will be spending a greater percentage of your income on expenses. So, in terms of leftover, discretionary money, you will be worse off, even with the lower COL

I have also been struck by how high the taxes are in Vermont, even compared to NYC. Real estate taxes have more than doubled in the past 15 years or so, but they are very reasonable compared to Vermont taxes. Also, a 10% restaurant tax? I bought some prepared food in the Bratt Food Co-op once, and I ate it at the tables they provide. Because I ate it there and didn't take it out, I had to pay a 10% tax! I don't remember if that was in addition to the sales tax or instead of the sales tax, but I still didn't appreciate it.

Yes, I am a little concerned (realistically, not neurotically) about the economic and even social realities of Vermont. I am concerned about low salaries and crummy jobs. I have arranged my work here in Brooklyn so that I work very independently, without serious workplace issues. I wonder if I can do that in Vermont, even without going into full-time private practice. I wonder if I just have to accept what is offered, since there are few other alternatives.

Maybe this is all good, as I don't have an unrealistically rosy view of life in Vermont. So, hopefully, I won't be so disappointed when reality sets in.

Of course, reality will set in. And I will be disappointed. But I have read somewhere that the first year in any new place is rough.

But I can't be happy if I am unhappy and/or insecure in my job. I do not want to be stuck in an abusive workplace, or have to, on some level, collude with injustice just to stay employed. I'm not detached enough for that. Some people are.

Now that closing is about 2 weeks away, I am feeling an occasional twinge of resistance again. I usually can deal with it by thinking of why I am moving; as soon as I finish listing my reasons, either mentally, or, more effectively, in writing, I am anxious to leave. And now, with the hurricane season in full swing, and becoming active, I wonder if this is the year that NYC gets socked.

But I don't want to regret leaving NYC.

I've done my research. I've done what I can to manage risk. But I can't get rid of all the risk; that comes with the territory.

[flu189]

Regarding leaving NYC. I am pretty good with remembering dates, of course the obvious ones like birthdays and and the like, but I also remember all the exact dates such as when I entered the service, left the service, came back in the service, etc. I also fondly remember September 3rd as the day that I and my family finally left NYC many, many years ago. Despite liking to go visit on occasion I consider that date probably to be the most significant date. Don't worry, your concern over missing NYC will pass and in time you will probably wonder why in the heck you did not leave sooner. It's a great place to visit, but in my opinion the day to day life there, even back in the good old days, is just not worth it. Of course if your employment and a great check warrants putting in time there then of course suck it up. There is a reason why more people in other places claim NYC upbringing and or having lived there than there are people in NYC now.

[arel]

Point well taken.

I know I am doing the right thing in moving.

I think what is kicking in for me right now is nothing more, nor less, than plain old separation anxiety. Remember, I just sold the house I grew up in and I will be moving out, for good, sometime in the middle of this month.

Thanks for the great post. Very encouraging!!!!

I tried to add to your reputation, flu189, but the software wouldn't let me. I got a message that I had to spread reputation around before giving it to you again.