help me please (moving to, building, liberal)

[LM1]

Originally Posted by greenpete

Oh my. Still more name-calling.

I'm not going to try to respond to all the above, LM1. You're obviously quite comfortable with your stringent opinions, and you've neatly packaged all those people who disagree with your politics.

I'm sure you're a nice person, "in person." I'm always amazed at how vicious people become over the web, when they're physically separated from those they debate.

"Those they debate?"
You aren't debating.
You say "NAME CALLING!" whenever the topic gets spirited and then cite that as your reason for why you can't respond to the facts.

It's a pretty common tactic whenever an "Everything I know I learned from TV" type finds themselves confronted on an issue by someone who actually understands it.

[Phish Head]

Obviously, greenpete, you've never felt that completely helpless feeling when it is the middle of the night and you hear your window break downstairs because some dirtbag decided to break into your house. A baseball bat does not make you feel more powerful than the burgular. Ever know what it is like to not be able to protect your wife when someone is roaming through your home?

Also, don't assume the comfortable life you live now is going to remain that way. Our forefathers believed in the right to bear arms because a tyrannical government can happen almost overnight. You have the rights to take up arms against your government, and you never know when that day will come. I know it sounds far-fetched, but riotous conditions could happen if the economy collapses, foreign invasion (9/11 comes to mind) or gas hits $6.00 a gallon overnight, etc. Just a few years ago, gas was $1.25 a gallon. If overnight, gas went to $3.25 a gallon, the whole economy could have collapsed. Instead, changes happens slow and steadily and we accept it. I just don't count on it always happening that way.

[andiecav]

After leaving LA., CA, living in Burlington, VT, now St. Albans, VT., beautiful place! Don't know much 'bout guns as I don't own any, but the music scene is great, also known as "Westcoast of New England" ... physically & mentally... Lots here for whatever one is looking for, or wanting to get away from... also, wonderfully close to Montreal, Canada, can't do better than that!!!

[hermit]

i was just reading over your guys' shoulders. i was born and raised 2 towns away from middlebury, in a town named shoreham. not that i reccomend you move to shoreham, but in my personal experience there were guns everywhere. my dad had at least 3 and my best friend got a shotgun for her 12th birthday. we shot it unsupervised off her back porch and no one, including us, thought too much of it.
they also shot and ate pigeons, tanned their own animal hides and once i came over on the day they had picked to slaughter and eat all their pet rabbits and i walked into a room with all the little bunnies i had known so well hanging dead draining blood. but i felt compelled to eat the stew anyway in the spirit of not wasting anything.

once a hunter shot through our kitchen window from a great distance. never quite figured that one out.

i'm not especially pro-gun but they are useful tools in the right hands for sure. i'm also not anti-gun. it's a tricky issue.

[blcapdee]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that between NH and VT, it's VT that is VT that is considered more rural.

[Mark S.]

According to U.S. Census Data, Vermont is the most rural state in the Union. (I'd post a link, but moderators would delete it. Just type "Vermont most rural" in your favorite search engine, and it'll come right up.)

And guns are like any tool...of great use, but all-too-easy to abuse. I can't say that I like them, but I wouldn't want the government taking them away.

[DogLady321]

Just a female take on this whole thing. You certainly can't go running around shooting off your gun here. Just had an incident where some fireman decided to go down to the local quarry shooting off their guns and a canon, neighbors weren't too happy about it.
But if you're talking about enjoy hunting season, that can be had here. Hunting season is a way of life for folks in VT, although it makes some country folk nervous when hunting season arrives, it is part of life here.
Some land owners have their land posted so you can't hunt on it but still seems to be plenty of places to hunt.
i don't regularly see folks wearing a gun around town but it isn't uncommon to see rifles in truck windows during hunting season.
Yes there are many liberals in VT but there are a fair share of conservatives as well, in spite of what the census or polls may show, also many activists mixed in with the liberals, so their are many levels of liberals here as well as conservatives. But this makes VT VT!

[NEKgirl]

Originally Posted by greenpete

I don't think there's the same narrow, NRA dogmatism as in other parts of the U.S. After all, every Vermont county voted blue in the last presidential election.

Actually... the North East Kingdom voted "red" the two most northern and eastern counties are, in fact, notoriously republican despite the liberal vibe throughout the rest of the state.

Personally I am trying to buy a house of my own...in Vermont. I am a Vermonter, in fact I am an EMT for a rural service in the NEK. Its quite difficult to afford a nice house because many "flat landers" have come to the area to retire or purchase second homes for snowmobiling or vacationing. Those people are buying houses for 2 or 3 times the listed price and forcing the prices in the housing market to rise redicuously over the last few years. Locals in North Eastern Vermont have an extremely hard time affording a decent house, especially when the wages of most jobs in Northern Vermont do not compare to those of MA or NH. The lack of professional infra-structure in the area is often a charm for those coming to "get away from it all" but to the locals it means relying more on blue-collared jobs as a carear, which do not pay anywhere near what a professional salary would. Those lucky enough to be paid well are usually those who hold "town jobs" such as myself, where taxes support and pay the wages. (so to you 2nd home owners that is the only reason I say thankyou!) The salary/housing problem is something most new comers or vacationers do not care to notice. Instead they all zoom in on the quaintness of the small rural village. Squashing jobs that seem dirty and noisy and destructive to the view, such as logging (from cutting to mills to trucking) or the railroads. As well as opening stores and outlets that not only do not pay, but support a lifestyle that is ultimately not of Vermont. Out-of-Staters also move in and purchase vast quantities of land from retired or dead farmers/families and then post it so locals cannot hunt or hike or use ATVs or snowmobiles on property they have for years. The Open Land Law of Vermont is something locals revear and respect, while out of staters regard us to something as the English did the Indians...to move in, conquer, own, and fence off. Vermont is not for you if you like shopping, want to be close to ammeneties, dislike the fridgid cold, long nights, and local people who make obscene gestures and give you looks because you cannot obey traffic signs, think that our houses are "cute", and always search endlessly for the elusive moose.

Respect the locals, respect our work and our lifestyles and stop pricing us out of our own town please.

[sevdie]

Originally Posted by LM1

No paranoia, but yeah, you probably do indeed detect a lot of anger.
I’ve seen people just like you move into my state and crap all over it with your child-like, drum beating, mentally retarded form of Liberalism that has yet to achieve anything in human history other than smoking a lot of pot and complaining about how “unfair” everything is.



So, when you go to research firearms issues, the first place you head is to the Brady Foundation? An organization that pretty much dedicates its entire existence to banning firearms? That pretty much says it all, right there.
You won't like Vermont. Your preconceptions are about to be painfully shaken when you arrive in Vermont and experience the reality of the matter.



WTF?
Vermont is the ONLY state in the Union that doesn't require a permit of any kind of carrying a concealed handgun.
50 states, about 47 of them require a permit to carry a concealed handgun, 2 don't allow it at all and one solitary state, Vermont, doesn't require anything to carry a concealed handgun.

So, again, you're totally incorrect.
There is very little need for "self defense" in Vermont as Vermont has the loosest firearms laws in the country.



Man, you tie-dyed type liberals kill me sometimes.
"Paranoia", "Narrow"... Were it not for inaccurate, cliché catch phrases, there wouldn't be any cogency to what you say.

The NRA is in favor of firearms rights. They endorse any politician, Democrat or Republican alike, who are in favor of gun rights. How is that "narrow" in nature?

If you want "narrow", i'd say your Brady Campaign or the newly created "American Hunters And Shooters Association" (for more info on them, click Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...sociation]Here ) qualify as being "narrow".



Or, how about the state with the least firearms laws and one of the highest per-capita bases of firearms ownership in the entire US, Vermont.

A personal anecdote: My dearest friend in this world, from the very liberal state of Minnesota, is about as "Liberal" as you get. Straight green party ticket type of guy, although pro individual rights. He is as pro firearms rights as I am, although he and I do diverge on a few other issues.

Anyway, he recently moved to Olympia, Washington- a liberal, tie-dyed hippie Mecca- from the state of Minnesota. Within 2 months, he hated those people.
He reports that he has never experienced a bigger bunch of inept, unqualified airheads in his entire life. A bunch of losers who sit around all day and blame their lifes problems on "the corporations". He and I talked last week, and really made some headway into understanding each others philosophies. He explained to me that all liberals aren't the same; that there is a coterie of leftists who are useless boneheads and he, an ultra-leftist himself, can't stand them.

I realized that there are two kinds of liberals: the "Live and Let Live" liberals who are “liberal” and mind their own lives and the "Loser" liberals; people who are liberal not because of some well thought-out philosophy, but rather, because they're too incompetent to achieve anything that might put them in a higher tax bracket.

Without exception, the "Loser Liberals" don't support firearms rights, because the concept of personal self defense or hunting violates their preconceptions of the liberal utopia. Vermont is not made up of loser-liberals, although the population seems to be increasing with every U Haul that enters the state.

OMG!! I read this post at work and bursted into laughter. Everyone around me now thinks I am a nut. Oh, LM1, I could not agree with you more. Toooooo funny!

[Dragondog]

If you agree with the post by LM1- I would not think you would make many friends in Vermont.