[joninil]

Hello, my name is jon and I live in the communist state of IL. I have hopes of moving to VT but dont know alot about this state. I'm an avid outdoorsman who ejoys many disaplines of firearms and shooting sports. Its my life long hobby and I need a state that offers a gun friendly environment. I have looked at areas such as Middlebury. Can someone please breif me on the general attitude towards firearms by both the public and the police. Please dont stop on the firearm issue. I'm interested to learn all I can about VT.
I will answer all who spend the time to help me.
Thanks for listening to me


Jon

[dicentra61]

Hi there,
I lived on the border of NH/VT for 23 years, as a resident of the great state of New Hampshire. From your self assessment, as an avid outdoorsman/NRA member? would easily say VT is NOT the state of choice for you. Try NH, its neighbor, which lives by its state motto: Live Free or Die. The political climate of VT is more left of center, and there are many newer residents from "down country" (i.e. NYC, Boston, CT) who have bought up land by hundreds of acres, only to erect personal mansions and these are fenced off by No Trespassing signage all around.
New Hampshire has a more right of center political base. We lived in small towns about 25+ miles outside of Dartmouth College, where we could target shoot on our land, drive our Willys jeep and snowmobiles on trails that networked all the way up to Canada.
The 2 states are like twin sons of different mothers; or distant cousins. Both states are beautiful and have plenty of untouched land for outdoor enthusiasts. But I think you might do better to look more in the Grafton County area of NH in towns such as Canaan, Bristol, Haverhill, Pike to mention a few.
I hope this helps you!

[zenduane]

I too am a long time resident of NH and will be moving to VT shortly. However, I am moving to VT for exactly the opposite reason ... I would like to get away from all the people with guns. I live in So. NH and our property is literally overrun every hunting season and a very dear friend of ours was shot and killed by a hunter (by accident, I'm sure) while he was out tending his garden.
NH is currently much more conservative than VT. However, we are a "blue state" with thousands of people moving up from MA. So, the laws out here are changing as conservatives become a smaller and smaller part of the population. For now, however, I think that your hunting desires are safe. You are probably better off in Coos county rather than Grafton. Grafton was just sited as one of the five most desireable rural lacoations in the country, so a lot of people are heading there. And, it is the home of the rapidly expanding Plymouth State as well as Dartmouth.

[NHMT]

NH will never become a northern Mass so please do not get your hopes up and enjoy destroying what is left of VT. Come to NH and enjoy some freedoms and help drive back the ignorant socialist from MASS.

[LM1]

I lived on the border of NH/VT for 23 years, as a resident of the great state of New Hampshire. From your self assessment, as an avid outdoorsman/NRA member? would easily say VT is NOT the state of choice for you.

However, I am moving to VT for exactly the opposite reason ... I would like to get away from all the people with guns.

Horrendously inaccurate information here given the nature of the question.
Vermont is the only state in the union that doesn't require a permit for residents to carry a concealed handgun. Vermont has the least firearms regulations on the books of any other state in the entire US. If you want to “get away from guns”, consider Europe. You won’t have much success with Vermont if that’s your goal.

Yes, Vermont has a very politically unique climate, but it's a form of "Liberalism" that's classical in it's nature. They actually respect individual rights, including gun rights, rather than the more common form of "Liberalism" that supports certain rights and not others.
Vermont liberalism is a "live and let live" Liberalism, as opposed to a more New York'ish/California version that's along the lines of "Live As We Say So We Can Forge Our View Of An Idyllic Society" tie-dyed, Marxist nightmare.

People think that because there's a very strong liberal contingent, that must mean there are "no guns".
Vermont is a very unique place. It's a place where you might find a transvestite with a deer rifle, or an ultra-liberal person out working his property with a sidearm. It's a practical, grounded form of liberalism, instead of the "Pie In The Sky" perfect-world type of liberalism that ingores reality for the sake of "feelings".

Vermont is a unique place. As a gun owner, shooter, hunter and outdoorsman, you can't do any better amongst the other 49 states from which to choose.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by LM1

Yes, Vermont has a very politically unique climate, but it's a form of "Liberalism" that's classical in it's nature. They actually respect individual rights, including gun rights, rather than the more common form of "Liberalism" that supports certain rights and not others.

Vermont liberalism is a "live and let live" Liberalism, as opposed to a more New York'ish/California version that's along the lines of "Live As We Say So We Can Forge Our View Of An Idyllic Society" tie-dyed, Marxist nightmare.

Well said. And you could add Washington State (or at least the Puget Sound area) to your list of stupid liberalism. Washington liberals are sadly funny. They're the most intolerant liberals I've ever seen --- especially when they are demanding tolerance.

Originally Posted by LM1

Vermont is a very unique place. It's a place where you might find a transvestite with a deer rifle.

Wasn't that a Monty Python sketch? And how do the deer feel about that?

[greenpete]

"Tie-dyed, Marxist Nightmare"... "stupid liberalism"..."communist state of IL"

Do I detect a little anger and paranoia??

I'm an Ohioan moving to Vermont for the same reasons as Zenduane. I currently live in the reddest region of a red state. Down here in southwestern Ohio, if you're a Democrat they trash your political yard signs (despite arguing for "democracy" in Iraq). So when talking about "intolerant" liberals, remember that hypocrisy swings BOTH ways.

Anyway, we're really looking forward to living in Vermont. I've researched the gun legislation, and the state does get very low marks from the Brady Foundation regarding gun control. HOWEVER... this is undoubtedly due to Vermont's rural nature and the fact that many of its residents are hunters. Unlike other regions of the country with a more urban population (such as Ohio), Vermont's firearms (like Canada) are primarily for hunting, and less for (what they perceive as) necessary personal protection. I don't think there's the same narrow, NRA dogmatism as in other parts of the U.S. After all, every Vermont county voted blue in the last presidential election.

If you really want to live in a gun-happy state, go to Texas, Wyoming, or dare I say it, Ohio. You'll be able to play with your toys with very little, if any, interference.

[LM1]

Originally Posted by greenpete

"Tie-dyed, Marxist Nightmare"... "stupid liberalism"..."communist state of IL"

Do I detect a little anger and paranoia??

No paranoia, but yeah, you probably do indeed detect a lot of anger.
I’ve seen people just like you move into my state and crap all over it with your child-like, drum beating, mentally retarded form of Liberalism that has yet to achieve anything in human history other than smoking a lot of pot and complaining about how “unfair” everything is.

I've researched the gun legislation, and the state does get very low marks from the Brady Foundation regarding gun control.

So, when you go to research firearms issues, the first place you head is to the Brady Foundation? An organization that pretty much dedicates its entire existence to banning firearms? That pretty much says it all, right there.
You won't like Vermont. Your preconceptions are about to be painfully shaken when you arrive in Vermont and experience the reality of the matter.

Vermont's firearms (like Canada) are primarily for hunting, and less for (what they perceive as) necessary personal protection.

WTF?
Vermont is the ONLY state in the Union that doesn't require a permit of any kind of carrying a concealed handgun.
50 states, about 47 of them require a permit to carry a concealed handgun, 2 don't allow it at all and one solitary state, Vermont, doesn't require anything to carry a concealed handgun.

So, again, you're totally incorrect.
There is very little need for "self defense" in Vermont as Vermont has the loosest firearms laws in the country.

I don't think there's the same narrow, NRA dogmatism as in other parts of the U.S. After all, every Vermont county voted blue in the last presidential election.

Man, you tie-dyed type liberals kill me sometimes.
"Paranoia", "Narrow"... Were it not for inaccurate, cliché catch phrases, there wouldn't be any cogency to what you say.

The NRA is in favor of firearms rights. They endorse any politician, Democrat or Republican alike, who are in favor of gun rights. How is that "narrow" in nature?

If you want "narrow", i'd say your Brady Campaign or the newly created "American Hunters And Shooters Association" (for more info on them, click Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...sociation]Here ) qualify as being "narrow".

If you really want to live in a gun-happy state, go to Texas, Wyoming, or dare I say it, Ohio.

Or, how about the state with the least firearms laws and one of the highest per-capita bases of firearms ownership in the entire US, Vermont.

A personal anecdote: My dearest friend in this world, from the very liberal state of Minnesota, is about as "Liberal" as you get. Straight green party ticket type of guy, although pro individual rights. He is as pro firearms rights as I am, although he and I do diverge on a few other issues.

Anyway, he recently moved to Olympia, Washington- a liberal, tie-dyed hippie Mecca- from the state of Minnesota. Within 2 months, he hated those people.
He reports that he has never experienced a bigger bunch of inept, unqualified airheads in his entire life. A bunch of losers who sit around all day and blame their lifes problems on "the corporations". He and I talked last week, and really made some headway into understanding each others philosophies. He explained to me that all liberals aren't the same; that there is a coterie of leftists who are useless boneheads and he, an ultra-leftist himself, can't stand them.

I realized that there are two kinds of liberals: the "Live and Let Live" liberals who are “liberal” and mind their own lives and the "Loser" liberals; people who are liberal not because of some well thought-out philosophy, but rather, because they're too incompetent to achieve anything that might put them in a higher tax bracket.

Without exception, the "Loser Liberals" don't support firearms rights, because the concept of personal self defense or hunting violates their preconceptions of the liberal utopia. Vermont is not made up of loser-liberals, although the population seems to be increasing with every U Haul that enters the state.

[greenpete]

Oh my. Still more name-calling.

I'm not going to try to respond to all the above, LM1. You're obviously quite comfortable with your stringent opinions, and you've neatly packaged all those people who disagree with your politics.

I'm sure you're a nice person, "in person." I'm always amazed at how vicious people become over the web, when they're physically separated from those they debate.

[BobTex]

Sounds like a veiled threat of violence........if you 2 meet you better bring a gun Cuz.....fi you don't your assault (sounds like you are inferring a physical one) might be met with more than rhetoric. I find your rhetoric jmuch more hateful sounding than LM1's. Get a grip and quit being so hateful toward those that want to preserve freedom.


Thanks for the strong positive characterization of my beloved Texas. I'll have to admit we love our weapons (guns). I/we even shoot our full auto (legal-classIII) weapons on my little plot of land here!


I was considering moving to NH but now I'll haver to look closer at Vt. I'll post later some questions about the subject and more on both forums.....Thanks to all!

Bob