[looking4home]

With all this talk about going to NH for shopping or other reasons made me wonder if there is a sort of rivalry between the two states. For those of you familar with both, what are the similarities between the two, and the differences? I can think of a geographical one off the top of my head - NH has a coast and Vermont is land-locked, save for a big body of water (Lake Champlain).

Does the weather differ at all? which state has a more New England feel to it? Is NH more influenced, culturally and otherwise, by MA, while Vermont is by NY? Or are the two states very intertwined, seeing that there seems to be many people who will live in one state, and work or shop in the other. Which state has higher taxes overall? which has the most beautiful scenery? Architecture? Quaint villages?

I know this is a broad-ranging topic, but I find it interesting that people will choose to live in one state over the other when both are small states right next to each other! I'm wondering what can be the differences?

[Duff in VT]

Some thing are very similar. Manchester VT and North Conway NH could be twin cities. Both at the foot of ski mountains, with outlet shopping, ski shops, etc. Many towns in the northern parts of NH and VT seem quite isolated and very, very different from the towns in the southern part of the state. I think Vermont has way more charming New England towns than NH. Much of northern NH is taken up by the White Mountains. More commanding than our mountains and great for hiking if you like wilderness. Um... lots more differences but I'll let others add some of their thoughts. I love NH and we visit there a lot, but I was born and raised in VT and I've never felt compelled to move to NH although I have lots of relatives there.

[ex-springfielder]

NH's state motto is "Live free or die", Vermonts should be "You can die but don't expect to live free". Nh has twice the population as Vermont with very different tax structure and government philosophy. NH allows much greater development, has no sales or income tax and much more industry. Where Vermont get's it's influence from the influx of granola chewing liberals from NY and CT, New Hampshire is more influenced by it's connection with Mass., some would say it's hard to tell southern NH from Mass. Being surrounded by states with sales taxes NH has a large number of malls and stores, which offer many jobs for it's people and a competitive retail environment. Vermont has more quaint villages and more rolling mountains covered in green, Northern NH has the massive White Mountains with tops of granite. Vermont is much more expensive and restrictive to live in and is presently suffering through a reduction in private sector jobs. But as so many people do you can live in vermont and then get a job and do your shopping in NH.

[Verseau]

I don't think there's much of a rivalry between NH and VT, aside from some occasional playful teasing.

I think the most noticeable difference is that VT has a much more evident agricultural character -- lots of open pastureland, large farms with silos, lots of cows. New Hampshire has these things too, but in a smaller quantity. NH experienced more industrialization, producing large mill towns like Manchester and Concord. Many of NH's old farms were retaken by wilderness, making the state a bit more heavily forested than Vermont.

The White Mountains in NH are generally more rugged, prominent, and visually impressive than the Green Mountains in VT, although Vermont is the more mountainous state overall. Both states are incredibly beautiful. NH does have more lakes, but Lake Champlain nearly offsets the difference. I would argue that NH provides more awe-inspiring scenery (e.g. Mt. Washington), but that VT is the more scenic state overall -- the open land and mountainous terrain make practically every road a scenic drive.

I'd say the weather is pretty similar in both states, except that southeastern NH experiences a milder climate due to its proximity to the ocean. The areas closer to the coast also experience more sunshine. Southeastern NH also has a more suburban feel that doesn't really exist in VT, which is the more rural state overall. I think New Hampshire is definitely more influenced by Massachusetts and Vermont by New York, but all in all NH and VT are probably more similar to each other than they are to the other states.

In some ways, though, NH is much more closely linked to Massachusetts and Maine, which share a common legacy of seafaring and "mill town" industrialization. You can hear it in the accents -- generally, NH accents are closer to ME and eastern MA accents, whereas VT accents are similar to those in western MA or in the part of Upstate NY just across the border.

I think it's impossible to call one state more "New England" than the other -- New England wouldn't be New England without either one of them. Visually speaking, some would argue that VT looks more like what the rest of New England used to look like before the Industrial Revolution. On the other hand, many insist that NH's "live free or die," Libertarian political atmosphere better represents the Yankee tradition than post-1960s Vermont. VT is definitely the more liberal state, and it has a much higher tax burden.

I believe NH has more of a reputation as being a resort / tourist area, especially for Bostonians. That said, I think both states offer a plethora of remarkably charming and well-preserved New England villages; Sandwich and Hancock in NH can surely hold their own against Woodstock or Grafton in VT. However, VT probably wins in the quaint village category because of how little the state has been developed. On the other hand, I have to give New Hampshire the edge in architecture -- the state's earliest settlements predate Vermont's by over a century, and the amount of surviving colonial architecture is wonderful, especially in Portsmouth.

I see Vermont as our sister state -- she has her quirks and differences, but in the end we're just family.

[momnh]

I think that sums it up well. I just moved from NH to VT. I think the only other difference I can add is that VT is more child-focused, especially in terms of schooling. But you also see/feel it in general, at least in the Burlington area. It seems the whole community rallies around children. NH is hand-cuffed by its tax policy. While schools are generally okay, I don't think they are as good as VT. For instance, Manchester is cutting almost all sports and extracurriculars in January due to funding problems. I'd rather pay an income tax to get those things for my kids. I am amazed by the experience my kids will be getting here versus what we had in Manchester.

Also, property values have held up much better in VT than in NH for some reason. Some would say it's the wealthy NY transplants but NH has the wealthy Bostonian transplants. My house value in NH dropped 20% last year, while the equivalent house here may have only dropped 5%.

[Lilybeans]

Vermont has better gun laws, except for silencers.

[arctichomesteader]

NH historically had far more influence on Vermont than NY. Afterall, consider this: we fought a war against NY in defense of NH land grants in what is now VT, which lead to VT being an independent country for a time (but with a close relationship with NH all the same even though relations with the newly formed United States under the Articles of Confederation were not always so good). Many of the earliest settlers came from NH (including some of my ancestors, who were related to Governor Gilman of NH and who fought in the Revolution and for VT independence). In the "year without a summer" NH was the source of a lot of supplies (brought first by sea from more Southern areas, than carried over the mountains, a very difficult job) that kept the VT settlers from all starving to death (though many still did). VT long had closer ties to NH than NY. I'm not sure you could say there's been a rivalry really, perhaps, but not much of one until perhaps recently when NH has really outpaced VT economically. VT has always had a rivalry with NY though...

The 1960's onward changed a lot of things in VT though. The hippies and other lefties came from states such as MA, NY, NJ, CT and so on and brought very different ideas with them. Southern NH has seen a big influx of people from MA in recent times which has changed the political picture and also the scenery (getting more suburban) but NH still has a more libertarian philosophy much of VT (excepting many older real VT'ers throughout the state and moreso the NEK in general) has lost due to the events from the 60's (although VT has kept its very libertarian gun laws intact, which makes NH look almost restrictive in some aspects in that a license is needed to conceal carry there which includes any loaded gun in a car even if not concealed, though NH is nothing like MA or NY, much more free than either). NH today as a result of that is doing better economically, but with far more people and development, parts of NH aren't as nice and undeveloped as VT, but make no mistake, NH is still very rural in comparison to Southern New England. Contrary to what some believe, VT very much did take part in the Industrial Revolution but over the past several decades has lost most of its industry unlike NH. Part of that was through natural disasters (the big floods wiped out railroads and mills all over VT and there was no money to rebuild) but most of it is due to VT's politics over the past 40 years. I think the only area VT might tax less than NH is property, NH property taxes are insanely high even compared to VT's high taxes, but: whereas NH has few other taxes, VT also taxes everything else (except carrying guns! LOL) so VT comes out more taxed than NH still.

I do believe others are correct when they say Northern NH and Northern VT are not terribly different from each other, but they are both different worlds than Southern NH and S. VT. Both areas still resemble what most of both states were like decades ago.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

Vermont has better gun laws, except for silencers.

Yeah that silencer thing is irritating. It's only a a $25 fine if caught but that means I can't register one with the feds so no silencer, and secondly, any crime commmitted while using an NFA item is a federal felony. All because of fears over poaching. People are still poaching without silencers, and it isn't the 1920's anymore with mailorder silencers for a dollar or two. The poaching kind wouldn't be the kind to pay a $200 tax and go through the registration process for a silencer. It'd be much nicer for my ears if I could use silencers (they're already so tightly regulated by the feds why a state would get worried is beyond me). Lots of older hunters have hearing problems from years of shooting in the field. It's often not very practical to have ear plugs in while hunting. And, silencers would help with complaints over noise from target practice. There's been a lot of efforts at making them legal again but so far nothing out of the legislature. Maybe years ago we'd of had a better chance.

[MRVphotog]

Vermont is alot quieter than NH and has no toll roads. Every year the Fairbanks Museum used to sponsor a cowpie tossing comp between teams from the two states. It was a toss-up,,hehehe.
The Montshire(Vermont, New Hampshire) Museum is awesome and shows that the two states can work together.

[Wingfoot]

6 of one,half dozen of other, both basically yuppy retreats.