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Old 10-11-2009, 09:17 AM
 
Location: SWE
887 posts, read 1,373,195 times
Reputation: 798

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Tatti, i take it you have not served in the Finnish defence forces yet? One thing you need to remember, unless you give up Finnish citizenship, you will have to serve, no matter what part in the world you live at the moment. Getting a US citizenship is not easy at all, you will have to live there with your Green Card at least 5 years IIRC. Well, to be honest, getting a Green Card isn't easy at all as well.

So you might want to consider serving before you leave. Don't get me wrong, i did 362 and it was a total waste of time, now that i think about it afterwards. But i know more than plenty of guys who have tried to dodge it, but ended up serving in their late 20's. Not nice at all to be away for 6-12 months if you have a family, a career, mortgage payments, car payments, you reside on the other side of the world, you run a business, or what not.

Last edited by Vic_Vega; 10-11-2009 at 09:27 AM..

 
Old 10-11-2009, 10:30 AM
 
9 posts, read 29,398 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
Tatti, i take it you have not served in the Finnish defence forces yet? One thing you need to remember, unless you give up Finnish citizenship, you will have to serve, no matter what part in the world you live at the moment. Getting a US citizenship is not easy at all, you will have to live there with your Green Card at least 5 years IIRC. Well, to be honest, getting a Green Card isn't easy at all as well.

So you might want to consider serving before you leave. Don't get me wrong, i did 362 and it was a total waste of time, now that i think about it afterwards. But i know more than plenty of guys who have tried to dodge it, but ended up serving in their late 20's. Not nice at all to be away for 6-12 months if you have a family, a career, mortgage payments, car payments, you reside on the other side of the world, you run a business, or what not.
Yeah, I haven't served yet. I haven't decided wheter I'd like to go to army or civil service. I will naturally get that done before I move.
 
Old 10-11-2009, 06:24 PM
 
160 posts, read 508,270 times
Reputation: 78
Default Umm, not really...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RATT View Post
Vermont is perceived to be a majority white state but if you go to Burlington or Plattsburgh you will see that the same forces witch have destroyed cities like:Helsinki,Oslo,Copenhagen,Stockholm,London,Par is,Montreal,Toronto and Vancouver(to only name them) are at work in these idyllic little towns.It won't be long if the local citizenry does not rise up before they "get theirs" .I saw today on Vermont television that a town named woonosky is wondering"How to cope with the influx of Immigrants...." As Lylibeans so courageously pointed out http://www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=11091189" I think homogeneous population helps contribute to the lower crime rate."
First of all, there's a reason VT "is perceived to be a majority-white state." It's, uh, majority white, accdg to US Census Bureau:
White persons, percent, 2008 (a) 96.4%
Vermont QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Second, for the benefit of Tatti, Plattsburgh is across the state line in new York. Its violent crime rate, by the way, is 0.12 percent of the national average, and its property crime rate is 0.62 percent of the national average, here:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
Third, it's Winooski, the outskirts of which might have what Tatti is looking for, incidentally.
Finally, your homogeneity-crime theories have some rather large problems. Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities, and it is also one of the most homogeneous.
Oregon, especially rural Oregon, is predominately white, and saw a huge spike in crime in the early 2000s due to the meth trade. That is now receding, interestingly, here, Violent crime in Oregon takes nation's biggest drop; decrease in meth production may be key | PSJ, as the demographics have become more diverse, here: CAScade: Oregon's Demographic Transformation: By the Numbers.
New York, meanwhile, is one of the most diverse cities in the country:
"Violent crime in the city has dropped by 75% in the last twelve years and the murder rate in 2005 was at its lowest level since 1963: there were 539 murders that year, for a murder rate of 6.58 per 100,000 people, compared to 2,245 murders in 1990. Among the 182 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000, New York City ranked 136th in overall crime (with about the same crime rate as Boise, Idaho).[13]"
Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts. Believe what you like about various groups. But please don't make stuff up about the value of homogeneity.
Thanks.

Last edited by Yac; 11-19-2009 at 05:45 AM..
 
Old 10-11-2009, 07:35 PM
 
2,143 posts, read 7,183,957 times
Reputation: 1138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoco View Post
People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts. Believe what you like about various groups. But please don't make stuff up about the value of homogeneity.
Thanks.
Like it or not, it's true. Don't be so blinded by political correctness that you can't see the plain truth.
 
Old 10-11-2009, 10:23 PM
 
Location: SWE
887 posts, read 1,373,195 times
Reputation: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoco View Post
First of all, there's a reason VT "is perceived to be a majority-white state." It's, uh, majority white, accdg to US Census Bureau:
White persons, percent, 2008 (a) 96.4%
Vermont QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Second, for the benefit of Tatti, Plattsburgh is across the state line in new York. Its violent crime rate, by the way, is 0.12 percent of the national average, and its property crime rate is 0.62 percent of the national average, here:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
Third, it's Winooski, the outskirts of which might have what Tatti is looking for, incidentally.
Finally, your homogeneity-crime theories have some rather large problems. Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities, and it is also one of the most homogeneous.
Oregon, especially rural Oregon, is predominately white, and saw a huge spike in crime in the early 2000s due to the meth trade. That is now receding, interestingly, here, Violent crime in Oregon takes nation's biggest drop; decrease in meth production may be key | PSJ, as the demographics have become more diverse, here: CAScade: Oregon's Demographic Transformation: By the Numbers.
New York, meanwhile, is one of the most diverse cities in the country:
"Violent crime in the city has dropped by 75% in the last twelve years and the murder rate in 2005 was at its lowest level since 1963: there were 539 murders that year, for a murder rate of 6.58 per 100,000 people, compared to 2,245 murders in 1990. Among the 182 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000, New York City ranked 136th in overall crime (with about the same crime rate as Boise, Idaho).[13]"
Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts. Believe what you like about various groups. But please don't make stuff up about the value of homogeneity.
Thanks.
Well, this don't exactly belong to the Vermont forum, so it's a little off topic. Immigration on Finland (and somewhat in the rest of Europe) is quite different than immigration in the US. There's no real "demand" for immigration here, there's hardly any growth or "boom" anywhere, and there has been a lack of job growth for very long. I believe 5% of all immigrants arriving here are skilled, same number for North America is 55%. We get some "journeymen" from Estonia, Poland, Russia.. most of these come when the economy picks up, but go back home when it falls back down. Most of the ones who stay have some skills, and usually a excellent work ethic.

A majority of immigrants coming here are asylum seekers from the Middle East and Northern Africa, none of them can speak any finnish, most don't have any education and can't read or write. Still, most of them get approved. Their culture represents in many aspects the exact opposite of what the Nordic culture is about. Couple this to the fact that the Nordic welfare state system offers them very generous benefits & assistance, and there is no economic incentive for a approved asylum seeker to seek for entry-level employment (not that there really is much jobs available) or (free) education = assimilation to the surrounding society. This is real and i have to see it with my own eyes every day, and it's just getting worse. I really fear there is going to be a reneissance in neo-nazi/skinhead gangs, far-left gangs, frustrated immigrant youth, and street violence. Already is, very unheard of here.

To make this post a little on-topic, i've always admired how the state of Vermont trusts it's citizens to be responsible with firearms, a very extraordinary state for that matter in the whole world. I wish it would always stay like that, as here in Finland the government has recently taken a very anti-gun attitude with the support of a slight majority of it's citizens. We're number 4 in private gun ownership/per capita in the world after US, Yemen and Switzerland, and for some reason some people here feel ashamed of this, go figure...

Last edited by Yac; 11-19-2009 at 05:45 AM..
 
Old 10-12-2009, 08:03 AM
 
160 posts, read 508,270 times
Reputation: 78
Default You're right, Vic

The immigration debate in Northern Europe is a whole different kettle of lutefisk than questions of diversity and demographics in the northern U.S. Thanks for making the distinction, with facts rather than belief.
 
Old 10-12-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,936 posts, read 22,202,288 times
Reputation: 9020
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoco View Post
First of all, there's a reason VT "is perceived to be a majority-white state." It's, uh, majority white, accdg to US Census Bureau:
White persons, percent, 2008 (a) 96.4%
Vermont QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Second, for the benefit of Tatti, Plattsburgh is across the state line in new York. Its violent crime rate, by the way, is 0.12 percent of the national average, and its property crime rate is 0.62 percent of the national average, here:
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed
Third, it's Winooski, the outskirts of which might have what Tatti is looking for, incidentally.
Finally, your homogeneity-crime theories have some rather large problems. Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities, and it is also one of the most homogeneous.
Oregon, especially rural Oregon, is predominately white, and saw a huge spike in crime in the early 2000s due to the meth trade. That is now receding, interestingly, here, Violent crime in Oregon takes nation's biggest drop; decrease in meth production may be key | PSJ, as the demographics have become more diverse, here: CAScade: Oregon's Demographic Transformation: By the Numbers.
New York, meanwhile, is one of the most diverse cities in the country:
"Violent crime in the city has dropped by 75% in the last twelve years and the murder rate in 2005 was at its lowest level since 1963: there were 539 murders that year, for a murder rate of 6.58 per 100,000 people, compared to 2,245 murders in 1990. Among the 182 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000, New York City ranked 136th in overall crime (with about the same crime rate as Boise, Idaho).[13]"
Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts. Believe what you like about various groups. But please don't make stuff up about the value of homogeneity.
Thanks.
Reminds me of a somewhat funny story my father once told me years ago. He's retired now but he was a corrections officer. Him and another guard (other guard was Black) were having trouble with an inmate, who was Black and actually from NYC, who was resisting being put in a cell and who had been found with drugs smuggled in. The inmate said to the Black guard "don't treat me like this bro" (I think that's how it was phrased). The guard said "there's only 4 Blacks in town, I'm one of them, the other 3 including you, are in jail, and I'm not your bro."

It's about culture/attitude more than anything else. Blacks into the ghetto culture and Latinos into the gangs and drugs and such, are simply a crime problem. Those who don't get into that stuff and work and are law abiding seem to be the exception not the rule these days which is unfortunate. Most of those who have moved into the state in recent years have been from the ghetto in NYC or various MA cities (consider Rutland). I am neither racist nor do I buy into the political correctness and diversity nonsense. I don't want the trash from the ghettoes coming into the state. We have our own trash but nothing approaching the dangerousness of what one finds in NYC or Detroit or such. The crime rate here was lower before the trash started coming in from NYC and MA in recent years.

Last edited by Yac; 11-19-2009 at 05:45 AM..
 
Old 10-12-2009, 08:06 AM
 
160 posts, read 508,270 times
Reputation: 78
Default Thank you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilybeans View Post
Like it or not, it's true.
...for agreeing with my post. I'm not a fan of political correctness, which is why I try to rely on hard numbers like census data and crime rates.
 
Old 10-24-2009, 09:31 PM
 
119 posts, read 334,670 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoco View Post
Detroit is one of the most dangerous cities, and it is also one of the most homogeneous.
Tsk,tsk,tsk,Nunoco,
DETROIT homogeneous.......that is what you called a trap

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunoco View Post


Oregon, especially rural Oregon, is predominately white, and saw a huge spike in crime in the early 2000s due to the meth trade. That is now receding, interestingly, here, Violent crime in Oregon takes nation's biggest drop; decrease in meth production may be key | PSJ, as the demographics have become more diverse, here: CAScade: Oregon's Demographic Transformation: By the Numbers.
New York, meanwhile, is one of the most diverse cities in the country:
"Violent crime in the city has dropped by 75% in the last twelve years and the murder rate in 2005 was at its lowest level since 1963: there were 539 murders that year, for a murder rate of 6.58 per 100,000 people, compared to 2,245 murders in 1990. Among the 182 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000, New York City ranked 136th in overall crime (with about the same crime rate as Boise, Idaho).[13]"
Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
Are you trying to say that Oregon drop in the crime rate is due to DIVERSITY.....
I suggest you go to the Oregon site and see what these unfortunate people are going true with your diversity,ask the people in Portland ME,Minneapolis MN,Desmoines IA about your ridiculous diversity claims.
As far New York is concern well since you think it's so safe than move there,people i know who leave in NYC told me that they have to secure their home like a fortress with all sort of security devises,dogs and guns.So there is reality and than there are numbers.You are probably a good soul nunoco but before chastising people for their concern over this diversity cancer you should try to live in it.It is all very well and good to be in VT and loving diversity but if your not careful you might very well end-up getting exactly what you are looking for.go to your "u.s. Vermont facts"and will see that Plattsburgh and Burlington diversity population as grown exponentially(and still growing even more)since 2000.Congratulation!
 
Old 10-25-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Vermont
3,328 posts, read 8,765,535 times
Reputation: 1991
this thead has gone way off topic. enough.
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