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Old 05-03-2010, 10:51 PM
 
914 posts, read 2,910,003 times
Reputation: 642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
Like I said previously, in poor areas, they need more competition, not less. No one is expecting to turn VT into 'suburban heaven' but expecting the locals living off disability (and if you doubt this, come to Walmart the first of the month when the checks go out) to shop at the Co-op for 'organic tomatoes' and 'fresh basil' for the pesto sauce.
I had a disagreement with a poster on the NY forum about this very thing. He was arguing that we all should shop locally and support area farmers who generally have a smaller impact on the land, use more humane livestock practices,etc. I said that there are many people who simply cannot pay those high prices, and that large retailers, like Wal-Mart, have the prices that attract shoppers. My dad is an example. He lives on a very tight budget with a fixed income, and he cannot afford to be making political/lifestyle statements with his grocery shopping.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:56 AM
 
6,764 posts, read 22,041,885 times
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Well, Looking4home, last time I woke up this was the USA and we have the right to shop anywhere we want.

I don't care what other people choose to do and expect them to respect my decisions without hearing how I am ruining the state because I don't spend $5 a pint on locally grown strawberries.

We actually were going to a local farm stand till last year and we bought some very expensive produce that 'went bad' in a day. I can't afford that.

People should do what they want if they are spending their own money and everyone else can just back the heck up.

There's always the tourists who have plenty of $$ to buy at the quaint farm stands. Then they can go home and brag about it at the club or office.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Providence, RI
986 posts, read 2,329,946 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
I saw this on Saturday. I was at Walmart and it was packed, even though it was very early. I mentioned this to someone and he said it was because disability checks in VT came out every first of the month. So people were going to spend them where they get the most bang for the bucks.

*It may not be PC but it's realistic.*
Welfare checks are also distributed the first of the month. We have a Price Rite (probably similar to Price Chopper) here that we like to shop at for produce, meat, and cold cuts. We avoid it like the plague around the first of the month.

The sad part is, however, that when they stock up on stuff, they're stocking up on crap food. It's pretty sad watching obese parents with obese kids filling their carts with sugar drinks, Little Debbie snacks, soda, and the like. There is never any produce in their carts, and rarely anything to make a decent meal. It really upsets me that they blow their monthly check on crap that will cause them to cost taxpayers more money in the future on their medical bills. Third, you're putting money back into the local economy.

Anyway, here's some food for thought on local farms that are not organic. Buying from them is no worse than buying from mega farms that ship their goods across the country. In fact, it's usually better for a couple reasons. First, the food is fresher. Second, it's more environmentally friendly because it's not being trucked across the country.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:06 PM
 
894 posts, read 1,553,274 times
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If people are on public assistance eating poorly and dying young(and unhealthy) is probably cheaper than having them live long healthy lives. Who are we to tell people how to eat.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:49 AM
 
6,764 posts, read 22,041,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayJim View Post
The sad part is, however, that when they stock up on stuff, they're stocking up on crap food. It's pretty sad watching obese parents with obese kids filling their carts with sugar drinks, Little Debbie snacks, soda, and the like. There is never any produce in their carts, and rarely anything to make a decent meal. It really upsets me that they blow their monthly check on crap that will cause them to cost taxpayers more money in the future on their medical bills. Third, you're putting money back into the local economy.
.
Why are they buying preserved stuff full of sugar?
1--It keeps better.
2--It's cheaper
3--It goes a long way.

Which is cheaper---a bag of apples or a box of Little Debbie Snack cakes?

Now, I agree with you that it would be better to buy a big bag of rice and some dry beans and a tomato and pepper and make chili or something but again, what are we going to do, judge people because they are obese and because WE pay taxes we have the right to tell them NOT to eat that crap?

No, we can't.

We all talk about free to be and Big Brother sucks in Vermont and NH but then we have posts like "Stop wasting your welfare check (which I pay for with my taxes) on junk food." (Okay you're in RI, but you get my point).

What is the answer? Classes in nutrition? Seems to me people don't want to be told what to do.

It's a complex issue and though it annoys you, be glad for the Grace of God (or Zeus or whatever people worship here) you don't need that welfare check to feed your kids.

I'm not ragging on you, Jim, just saying that people don't always shop out of ignorance, but lack of choice and lack of 'alternatives.' Maybe some of it is laziness, or just 'I am going to control what I can control' in a world that gives poor people very little control over anything.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:48 AM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,353 posts, read 2,426,857 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
Why are they buying preserved stuff full of sugar?
1--It keeps better.
2--It's cheaper
3--It goes a long way.

Which is cheaper---a bag of apples or a box of Little Debbie Snack cakes?



I'm not ragging on you, Jim, just saying that people don't always shop out of ignorance, but lack of choice and lack of 'alternatives.' Maybe some of it is laziness, or just 'I am going to control what I can control' in a world that gives poor people very little control over anything.
I think that, more often than not, it's about poor choices rather than lack of choices. Sure, everybody enjoys a treat once in a while; but, it is not more expensive to buy ingredients and bake cookies from scratch once in a while than it is to keep the cupboards stocked with processed junk that's full of preservatives, saturated fat, artificial ingredients, etc. No kid, or adult, needs sweets everyday. We never had soda in the house growing up and I don't drink it to this day. It's bad for you and certainly not a necessity.

If it's about wanting to have control over something, it seems like making the choice to take control of your family's health would be a great way to go. Teaching children to make good choices, instead of excuses, about diet and exercise is a parent's responsibility. If it really is a matter of, "I am going to control what I can control" and that means controlling their kids by choosing to buy food that will ensure they stay fat and unhealthy, well, that is truly sad.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Rutland, VT
1,822 posts, read 5,122,960 times
Reputation: 790
Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
just saying that people don't always shop out of ignorance, but lack of choice and lack of 'alternatives.'
I think you nailed it. The lack of choices are a Big Brother issue, since most farm subsidies (paid for with our taxes) fund big agribusiness profiting by the zillions of dollars, while ruining the land and water with monoculture, chemical fertilizers, and pesticides and producing soy- and corn-based junk food. Subsidies keep the price of edible nonfoods artificially low and the stuff is everywhere, filling most aisles of most supermarkets and convenience stores -- especially in lower-income areas. By comparison, fresh, whole, healthy foods grown on smaller farms barely get any subsidies. Facts and statistics about that here:
EWG Farm Subsidy Database

Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsySoul22 View Post
Maybe some of it is laziness, or just 'I am going to control what I can control' in a world that gives poor people very little control over anything.
I agree.
"We deal with White supremacist assault by buying something to compensate for feelings of wounded pride and self-esteem . . . I would like to suggest that the feeling those kids are getting when they're stuffing Big Macs, Pepsi, and barbecue potato chips down their throats is similar to the ecstatic, blissful moment of the narcotics addict."
I read that powerful eye-opener of a quote by writer and social activist bell hooks in the book Sistah Vegan: Black Female Vegans Speak on Food, Identity, Health, and Society.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Providence, RI
986 posts, read 2,329,946 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna View Post
I think that, more often than not, it's about poor choices rather than lack of choices. Sure, everybody enjoys a treat once in a while; but, it is not more expensive to buy ingredients and bake cookies from scratch once in a while than it is to keep the cupboards stocked with processed junk that's full of preservatives, saturated fat, artificial ingredients, etc. No kid, or adult, needs sweets everyday. We never had soda in the house growing up and I don't drink it to this day. It's bad for you and certainly not a necessity.

If it's about wanting to have control over something, it seems like making the choice to take control of your family's health would be a great way to go. Teaching children to make good choices, instead of excuses, about diet and exercise is a parent's responsibility. If it really is a matter of, "I am going to control what I can control" and that means controlling their kids by choosing to buy food that will ensure they stay fat and unhealthy, well, that is truly sad.
Exactly. It easy to buy pre-made, processed stuff, but not necessarily cheaper and not a lack of choices. This same store sells a ton of produce super cheap - half the price of the non-discount grocery chains, and a quarter of the price of Whole Foods. The produce is fresh and plentiful. They've got lots of bulk items, like huge bags of rice. They've got plenty of stuff that will last a while.

I think it's more laziness than lack of choices, at least in the cases that I see. Instead of shopping more frequently, they prefer to buy stuff all at once and get the stuff that's loaded with preservatives and lasts all month rather than go shopping once a week and get fewer healthier items that will cost them just as little.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Western views of Mansfield/Camels Hump!
2,061 posts, read 3,952,778 times
Reputation: 1265
Sheryl is definitely correct on the subsidies - it is cheaper to buy processed food because it's subsidized, as opposed to fresh fruits and vegetables. Also, I think when you see a box of cookies for two dollars, vs. a head of lettuce for the same amount, many people automatically equate the cookies to a better deal, lasting longer, etc...a bag of chips at $4 (which is what most of them cost nowadays) is a no brainer, but a pound of apples at the same price is 'too much'.

Ironically, my mom says the whole wheat bread that I buy at $3 a loaf is too expensive. Yet she goes and buys individual rolls at .59¢ each. So, the loaf of bread lasts me a week. If she bought a weeks worth of rolls it would cost her more than my loaf of bread. When I told her that and she figured it out, the look on her face was priceless.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:12 AM
 
Location: on a dirt road in Waitsfield,Vermont
2,186 posts, read 6,809,814 times
Reputation: 1148
I don't think a co-op is meant as place for everybody. As mentioned by several I also don't shop there much as most of the items are too expensive for my budget.

I don't buy much processed food either, I brown bag my lunches vs stopping at the local deli but one thing I do buy at the local health food market is herbs and spices which are sold in bulk. Instead of spending $4/5 for a little plastic container of oregano at the grocery store I can get better quality at a fraction of that cost at health foof market or a co-op. Sure, it's not as convenient as grabbing the little containers off the shelf and putting them in my cart, you have to grab a plastic bag, scoop out what you want, write on the bag but the savings is huge.

For your region Gypsy I'm surprised that the only large national grocery chain is a Shaws. I think, just across the river in the West Leb retail megalopolis, Here in the MRV, or Bristol over the mountain, Waterbury and Middlebury all have them and they are much smaller populationwise than the West Leb/WRJ area. The one in Waterbury is a new Shaws superstore.

Last edited by MRVphotog; 05-05-2010 at 09:27 AM..
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