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Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,088,442 times
Reputation: 15538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlesaf3
You'll note the people who run the companies go home to the city, not the burbs... the most expensive real estate in Richmond is in the city. Drive out from the Fan by Windsor Farms to River Road if you want to check it out... all inside the city.
Its pretty clear cut to anyone who's lived in both. Richmond is smaller than Norfolk, but much more urban and cosmopolitan. It's not even close. The interesting question is why - my brother lives in Ghent in Norfolk, and I live in the city of Richmond, and he and I have spent a lot of time discussing it (we both find socio-demographic analysis quite interesting). Main operative theory is the skewing effects of the military now, though we'd be open to others.
I'd guess that the suburbs of Norfolk would be pretty similar to those of Richmond. Since neither is my taste, I'm in no position to make that comparison.
I will also note that those who run the companies are either empty nesters or have no issue paying the tuition to send their kids to the Saints schools. One thing Norfolk did that Richmond fails at is planning and follow through. During my almost 20 yrs in Norfolk/Va Beach I saw them tear down almost half the city but piece by piece they rebuilt it. Imagine all of whats now East Ghent as one empty lot after another. The master plan included not only buisnesses but living areas and they continue to adjust and update it but never abandon it. Richmond may build something eventually but then they ignore it, just look at how much work the parks needed because they have been allowed to deteriorate. How long till the squirrels leave because they won't commit to renovating the stadium where it is at? Moving it to the bottom is just plain stupid! None of the surrounding counties want to work with the city.
Maybe if Richmond could install a viable goverment that is capable of working together they could move forward. It's been what 5+ years since they first started directly electing a mayor and they still haven't identified in writing whether City Councel or the Mayors Office takes care of what area. No Norfolk is way ahead in my book for being a real city.
Your description of a static Richmond is simply inaccurate. It would be like me saying Short Pump is just a small intersection with only a Midas store with its trademark airplane coming out of the roof.
There will be a new ballpark, most likely in the Bottom paid for by the city and the Squirrels.
This frees up the Boulevard for a MAJOR, transformative redevelopment mixed use play resulting in significant tax revenues for the city.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,088,442 times
Reputation: 15538
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondpics
Your description of a static Richmond is simply inaccurate. It would be like me saying Short Pump is just a small intersection with only a Midas store with its trademark airplane coming out of the roof.
There will be a new ballpark, most likely in the Bottom paid for by the city and the Squirrels.
This frees up the Boulevard for a MAJOR, transformative redevelopment mixed use play resulting in significant tax revenues for the city.
Seems like a no brainer.
Same rhetoric new day. Richmond is not Norfolk and having a stadium downtown would not be practical here. Why not improve/replace the existing stadium where it is along with the other 2 sports venues? Let the maintainance garage move to the bottom.
Is Grey Hound and U-Haul moving? How about the Gentlemens club? What redevelopment will be going on the Boulevard that the stadium impedes to create this "significant tax revenue" that you speak of. Moving the stadium and expecting the city to pay 1/2 thats a no brainer....
Wow, I never knew that Norfolk was bigger in both population and land. Fact is that since Richmond is the only true city (sorry Petersburg) in the metro, everything is that is centralized is there. Norfolk is part of Hampton Roads which has many hubs thus watering down Norfolk (and VB's) urban scene. Both cities are the most urban outside of Northern Virginia though.
I agree with most of your post, except for the part that Virginia Beach is the second most urban area in the Tidewater region. I would say Norfolk is the most urban area by a large amount, followed by Portsmouth and Newport News. Virginia Beach is the most populated city in Virginia, however, the infrastructure is more suburban in nature (similar to Short Pump in the Richmond area).
You'll note the people who run the companies go home to the city, not the burbs... the most expensive real estate in Richmond is in the city. Drive out from the Fan by Windsor Farms to River Road if you want to check it out... all inside the city.
Its pretty clear cut to anyone who's lived in both. Richmond is smaller than Norfolk, but much more urban and cosmopolitan. It's not even close. The interesting question is why - my brother lives in Ghent in Norfolk, and I live in the city of Richmond, and he and I have spent a lot of time discussing it (we both find socio-demographic analysis quite interesting). Main operative theory is the skewing effects of the military now, though we'd be open to others.
I'd guess that the suburbs of Norfolk would be pretty similar to those of Richmond. Since neither is my taste, I'm in no position to make that comparison.
I think the difference between the cities is that Norfolk tore down much of the urban fabric downtown during urban renewal, while Richmond maintained a large percentage of the core. However, downtown Norfolk is going through a revitilization at the moment and is currently building a 23 story hotel conference center, new bus station, library, consolidated courthouse, amtrak station, and 4 new large apartment complexes that were converted abandoned buildings. Norfolk is also working on an arts district past granby street, which could include ordinances in the city being eliminated, that would allow food vendors to operate in the area. Additionally, the city is converting the St. Pauls quandrant of the city to be included with the downtown area. Light rail is going to be expanding to the Naval Base, Virginia Beach, and Greenbriar in the next few years. Also, a deal is in the works to upgrade Waterside. I think that the future Norfolk will start to resemble more of the Norfolk of the 40's and 50's after many of these changes occur.
Same rhetoric new day. Richmond is not Norfolk and having a stadium downtown would not be practical here. Why not improve/replace the existing stadium where it is along with the other 2 sports venues? Let the maintainance garage move to the bottom.
Is Grey Hound and U-Haul moving? How about the Gentlemens club? What redevelopment will be going on the Boulevard that the stadium impedes to create this "significant tax revenue" that you speak of. Moving the stadium and expecting the city to pay 1/2 thats a no brainer....
Trust me, the ballpark will move downtown. It will provide a major commercial catalyst (i.e. pricing out the amateur club operators that degrade the neighborhood) to the Bottom where residential growth has been phenomenal.
The highest and best use for the Boulevard is not a maintenance garage. That will be relocated to a site the city has already acquired in south Richmond. Moving it and the ballpark will free up over 60 acres for redevelopment. Combined with the significant residential development in Scott's Addition, the Bow Tie site, conversion of the FFV property, Science and Children's museums, the Redskins training center, and other draws like Hardywood, opening the Boulevard up as a higher density mixed use area (instead of a massive parking lot) is a no brainer.
I know the burbs stifle imagination but there are exciting times ahead in the city.
I think the difference between the cities is that Norfolk tore down much of the urban fabric downtown during urban renewal, while Richmond maintained a large percentage of the core. However, downtown Norfolk is going through a revitilization at the moment and is currently building a 23 story hotel conference center, new bus station, library, consolidated courthouse, amtrak station, and 4 new large apartment complexes that were converted abandoned buildings. Norfolk is also working on an arts district past granby street, which could include ordinances in the city being eliminated, that would allow food vendors to operate in the area. Additionally, the city is converting the St. Pauls quandrant of the city to be included with the downtown area. Light rail is going to be expanding to the Naval Base, Virginia Beach, and Greenbriar in the next few years. Also, a deal is in the works to upgrade Waterside. I think that the future Norfolk will start to resemble more of the Norfolk of the 40's and 50's after many of these changes occur.
Norfolk Live!
Pictures of many of these developments can be seen on the norfolklive website.
Street food vendors cannot operate in Norfolk? That's insane. Richmond really embraces its street food scene. Food Trucks | GrowRVA Hope you guys can make that change.
I think we can all agree that Norfolk and Richmond are both experiencing exciting urban rebirths.
And be wary of Cordish.... Richmond and other cities have been overpromised and underdelivered by these guys.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,088,442 times
Reputation: 15538
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondpics
Trust me, the ballpark will move downtown. It will provide a major commercial catalyst (i.e. pricing out the amateur club operators that degrade the neighborhood) to the Bottom where residential growth has been phenomenal.
The highest and best use for the Boulevard is not a maintenance garage. That will be relocated to a site the city has already acquired in south Richmond. Moving it and the ballpark will free up over 60 acres for redevelopment. Combined with the significant residential development in Scott's Addition, the Bow Tie site, conversion of the FFV property, Science and Children's museums, the Redskins training center, and other draws like Hardywood, opening the Boulevard up as a higher density mixed use area (instead of a massive parking lot) is a no brainer.
I know the burbs stifle imagination but there are exciting times ahead in the city.
Every thing to you is a "no brainer" including your high hopes. You are dealing with an aged and unmaintained infastructure in a city without a solid middle class and run by what continues to prove it self as a corrupt and inept goverment.
I do not care where the ball park is but be realistic you have a site with 2 other sports venues next to it, interstate access and the ability to park those who attend. Why you want to try an squeeze it in the bottom is beyond me. Norfolk placed her stadium on the river in a formal industrial site, the site also has interstate access, parking, mass transit and ties in with other waterfront/downtown attractions including Waterside, Nauticus, Mc Arthur mall etc. Norfolk is a true port city and the waterfront is far more significant to who she is than the river is to Richmond.
The burbs do not stifle imagination thats why they have continued to grow & prosper over the last 30 years+, Bow Tie Cinema; I am glad to see there is finally 1 movie theater in the city limits.
Same rhetoric new day. Richmond is not Norfolk and having a stadium downtown would not be practical here. Why not improve/replace the existing stadium where it is along with the other 2 sports venues? Let the maintainance garage move to the bottom.
Is Grey Hound and U-Haul moving? How about the Gentlemens club? What redevelopment will be going on the Boulevard that the stadium impedes to create this "significant tax revenue" that you speak of. Moving the stadium and expecting the city to pay 1/2 thats a no brainer....
You don't actually ever go into the city do you? You clearly have no clue about it. If the people who can afford to live anywhere live in the city, not the far west end, why is that? People vote with dollars, and bs with their mouths. You point out that people who live in the city make enough to send their kids to private schools without worrying about it. But you don't seem to grasp why those people, who could live anywhere, by definition, choose to live where they do. The city. Not short pump. Not glen Allen.
Richmond has between 4 to 5 times as much going on than Norfolk. Walk around Ghent. That's it. Then come to Richmond, walk around shockoe, the fan, church hill, carytown, the museum district, Libbie/grove,
Bellevue, Scott's addition....
And then realize only someone with no clue whatsoever would compare the 2.
Personally, I'm an urban guy. And my brother has to live in Norfolk. So I'm pulling for it. But comparing the 2 is just laughable.
I don't deny the city has issues to overcome. It's a long (but exciting) way back from the lows of the 80's and early 90's.
Other than my belief that the Boulevard has a much higher and better use than a green space with seats around it and miles of asphalt, I'm not absolute on the Bottom as a site. But, regarding a ballpark in the Bottom...
-A formal industrial site... check
-Interstate access (I-95, I-195 and I-64 all in immediate proximity) ... check
-Parking (several thousand parking spaces already exist within a few blocks in decks and surface parking)... check
-Mass transit (adjacent to the city's multimodal center at Main Street Station serving Amtrak, Mega Bus, GRTC, and soon BRT)... check
- Ties into other attractions including the Canal Walk, Liberty and Slave Trails, numerous museums, Capitol Square, Library of Virginia, Cap to Cap Trail, St. John's Church, Brown's Island, major employment centers, hundreds of downtown hotel rooms, VCU/MCV, Downtown arts scene, dense populations, etc... check.
Sound familiar?
I count 2 first run movie theater complexes in the city limits (Movieland and Cinebistro) as well as 2 arts/documentary/indie theaters (Westhampton and Criterion). I count 3 in Henrico, which has 315,000 residents compared to Richmond's 210,000.
Same rhetoric, different day from a Short Pumper.
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