"Showcase City"

[nitrovic]

Originally Posted by VAFury

LOL!!! Yeah, that's right. HUSH UP you that wish to put YET ANOTHER cookie-cutter housing development up. Like it hasn't already gotten rediculously out of control in NoVA.. There is a price to be paid for development friend and it's a price that many do not wish to pay. With urbanization comes a VAST amount of new problems.



Depends on who you are I guess. Having lived where development is REDICULOUSLY out of control, I'd say the balance between development and preservation is near perfect. If you're in Virginia to live an urban life, you may just be in the wrong state. So what??



Funny you make wild claims and boasts yet don't provide ONE specific. Am I to take your word that this "mystery major" now being offered at VCU is the greatest thing since sliced bread??? You dont' even offer a chance to refute the claim because of how vague your statement is.



How much more "urban" do we need??? I'm all ears, what would you like Richmond to do??? Build a new Chrysler plant in Chesterfield??? Perhaps Intel could put a chip plant in Short Pump... Let's really F*** up the countryside!!!!!



What a shame... No Wally World in Manassas. DARN!!! You know what we really need is a Rollercoaster on the Skyline Drive. Maybe a waterpark in Arlington Cemetery??? Oooo, oooo, a video arcade inside Appomatox Courthouse!!! YES!!! That would bring more DOLLARS than any poo-poo preservationist bullcrap!!! YES to strip malls!!! YES to big industry!!! YES to mowing down nature and history and making way for the 22nd century!!!

Maybe they should mow down a bunch of trees through scenic areas of northwest Virginia and put up some mega-voltage high tension power lines so we can get more power from Ohio into NoVA!!! (oh wait, they're already doing that... )




To me it's telling that you're somehow upset that you needed to leave to pursue whatever it was you left to pursue.... Sounds like you'd be more than happy to leave it all behind..

Why the attatchment??? What draws you to the area??? What makes you want to stay when economically the "Good ole boys" make it so hard for you???

Doesn't make sense...... You like how North Carolina does it then more power to ya..... Enjoy North Carolina!!!

The majority of this type of thinking is what has led northern Va to the state it is in today. The legoland deal fell through in favor of more townhouse communities and strip malls. They are ALL over Prince William and are an eyesore and made traffic a nightmare. And devolopment and preservation are near perfect?? You must live in a different Va. than i have for the past 30 years....

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by nitrovic

The majority of this type of thinking is what has led northern Va to the state it is in today. The legoland deal fell through in favor of more townhouse communities and strip malls. They are ALL over Prince William and are an eyesore and made traffic a nightmare. And devolopment and preservation are near perfect?? You must live in a different Va. than i have for the past 30 years....

I'm sorry, but I think I can still go to the Bull Run Battlefield and see, yes, that's right, a battlefield.... Not an f'ing monstrosity of a theme park.... Oh dear, how wonderful that might have been... .... You know, maybe now that you mention it..... A waterslide called "Pickett's Charge" right down the middle of Gettysburg is EXACTLY what they need there as well!!! Gawsh what great thinking!!

You honestly think if Disney had it's way in NoVA that things would have been less of an eye sore or a traffic nightmare??? Are you serious???

[CNI]

Mike From Back East - Agree with your comments. Some of the "old tirds" in Richmond still deny that NOVA and Hampton Roads traffic is any worse than other areas of the state & they argue that it doesn't need any additional improvement/funding. The Richmond newspaper has done articles where a reporter on ONE DAY is able to travel easily thru NOVA & concluded that there is no traffic problem there.
Any showcase city (which I still argue is needed & possible) would require the correct amount of support/funding for the necessary roads. This is currently not happening in NOVA & Hampton Roads.
VAFury - Nitrovic noted the Legoland deal was killed in favor of more townhouses & strip malls. So much for your argument about not having "YET ANOTHER cookie-cutter housing development". When the ONLY U.S. (maybe North American) Lego theme park - with national & international tourism & dollars to go along with it - could have been built instead. If this made sense, from a business standpoint, I'd like to have someone explain why.
You speak of growth/development/progress as if its some scary monster, as if only you & people who now oppose it really know all involved with it & as if people who choose it know not what they seek. Can you conceive that there are people out here who prefer growth/development/progress (like I can understand some people's desire for preservation/stagnation/etc.)?
Eyesores - those are mostly subjective. Economic benefit/contributors - no so subjective. Your undeveloped Haymarket contributes much of nothing in comparison to what Disney would have been able to contribute economically (plus there would have been residual benefits to other parts of the state).
Making wild claims & boasts is not why I'm here. I'll discuss, debate, etc. but nothing to gain in getting heated on an internet blog site. There are many factual statements that I have presented - in full detail - which you have preferred to avoid. If you care to go back & refute those with some facts of your own I'd appreciate it.
To help you "refute" one of my intentionally vague arguments - the "mysterious major" is engineering. Refute with facts please. Keep in mind the local semiconductor investment as you do your refuting.
You know what - an auto manufacturing facility in Chesterfield (or anywhere in the state) would be GREAT. But preferably one that's doing better than Chrysler is now. Toyota, Honda, etc. Perfect. A semiconductor plant in Short Pump? Now you're getting it! These would be WONDERFUL developments. Again, these would provide me, growth advocates, you, preservationists, all of the previous parties' children with jobs. Again, please explain to me how that undeveloped land is going to do this.
For clarity, none is advocating destroying all countryside. This is an argument for better balance in VA between growth/development/progress & stagnation/preservation/regression. And as I said before - as with investing, DIVERSIFICATION is key. The state currently lacks a major city - "showcase city" - that would allow it to be a better balanced state capable of taking advantage of opportunities resulting from those seeking to rural, suburban, & urban opportunities. The urban piece is missing.
Nice attempt a psychoanalyzing me. Again, that's not why I'm here. This is not about ME (I only used that example to make a point). I will not even engage you in that discussion because it would only take this thread off-course.
Also this is not about North Carolina.
I think I've states many times previously what this thread...this "showcase city" argument...is all about. If you missed it please go back & scan previous posts.
Opportunities...jobs, education, etc...will likely not materialize from rural countryside. Let's try relying on SW VA for our state's economic health. Again, we'd be eastern WVA.
You're joking when you say, "Seriously though. What is it about the law that holds Richmond back???". You are joking, right? If you do not know the answer to that question then you're not as knowledgeable of VA as you present yourself to be. As others have said previously, ARCHAIC annexation laws.
Nitrovic - Thanks for the perspective & info regarding NOVA. Better to have a 1st-hand perspective. Though I'm sure others in NOVA may (& likely will shortly) disagree wih you.
One last thing...should we have a separate "THE MOUSE & HAYMARKET - RESPOSPECTIVE ON DISNEY IN NOVA" thread? I think we should & allow this thread to get back to the "Showcase city" discussion.

[CNI]

VAFury - See thread "What Kinds of Changes Would You Like to See in Richmond? " for more answers to your question "Seriously though. What is it about the law that holds Richmond back??? "
Back to "Showcase City"...
NOVA will likely continue to advance & progress but it will be hard for any jurisdiction there to break free from being considered "suburban D.C.". Even Fredericksburg is falling into that category.
Hampton Roads always struck me as having HUGE potential for taking off. With the ports (military & otherwise) the area will likely always be of economic importance. Many travelers from outside the region visit for military reasons & for leisure. Recently VA Beach seems to be displaying some desire to compete. Its oceanfront appears to be motivated to attract tourists (up until recently it seemed to not care). To me, it seems to be one of VA's most balanced regions (in terms of growth & preservation).
A big problem w/ the region is that it is out-of-the-way. It is not along the 95 corridor & would likely be hurt by the fact that people would have to make a special trip to the coast to access it. Good transportation options would help overcome this (What is it w/ the 2 lanes in each direction of 64E? Will we ever get better access via 64?). Another Chesapeake Bay crossing - for access from & to northern locals - is a major obstacle. Not sure of the cooperative climate between jurisdictions down there (hopefully it is better than the Richmond region).
Plus, Hampton Roads needs to step it up in terms of jobs opportunities.
Biggest advantage is that, strategically, growth in Hampton Roads could push west while growth from DC is pushing south. As others have coined, this "urban crescent" would provide diversification & balance to coexist with the more rural & less economically viable western portions of VA.
Richmond as showcase city. It is centrally located, state capital, solid in terms of corporate investment. But, see thread "What Kinds of Changes Would You Like to See in Richmond? " for its downsides.

[Cdshiflett]

Let me clear something up. I said "When I was younger I couldn't wait to get away from here. Now that I am older and much wiser. I am thankful that I alway ended back up in Virginia with all it has to offer." I was an Air Force Bratt with my father in for 24 years. We lived all over the United States (Kansas, Illinois, Hawwaii, Florida ) and there were times that he was sent overseas and we would end up back in Virginia because we were not allowed to go. By the time I was 10 I couldnt wait to get out of here (the Shenandoah Valley). And I would wish for us to be sent anywhere but Virginia again. But his last duty stations were when we ended up in Falls Church for several years then the Richmond area.
NO THANK YOU! I much prefer having rasied my kids in an area with great schools, low crime, allowing them to thrive as individuals and to grow. They are wonderful respectful adults. I guess it boils down to what you value most in your life, what your wants and needs are. I preferred my children being able to play 4 or 5 blocks away and being safe. I prefer being able to walk home from a friends house a mile or so away late at night and know I am safe. I prefer the beauty of the mountains. The peaceful and calm mornings setting in the swing with a cup of coffee and listening to the birds. I prefer fresh air.
I don't mind driving 6 miles to a grocery store or movies. I don't mind 30 minutes to a mall. I am not willing to give up my valuable time to fight traffic for an extra 30 or 40 minutes to get to the same grocery stores I can go to now. I am not willing to pay $10 dollars to see the same just released movie that I can see for 4 bucks. I prefer my daily hikes to be by the river or in the mountains not asphalt pavement.
And before you decide that my children do not have a future because of what I preferred. My son is an architect in Brooklyn. He is there because of his wife. (No other reason) and that whole family (inlaws included ) are relocating to Virginia in the next couple years. My daughter is a junior at VA Tech in areospace and ocean engineering and with honors. I raised them both that the only boundries that will keep them from being successful are those that they place upon themselves. I know there are others who prefer the big city life and all it has to offer. But small cities have it too,I have 5 star resturants within 6 miles of me. I have 2 different performing arts centers, several art galleries, Outdoor theater with it's endless plays and concerts. I have history gallore, and anything and everything that 3 major Universities with in our 10 miles has to offer.

As for the earlier assumption that I left here for jobs and returned back retire after I'd taken all that I could. I've been back since I was a freshman in high school, I consider myslef highly successful in my job acomplishments and I am nowhere near retirement age.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by CNI

VAFury - See thread "What Kinds of Changes Would You Like to See in Richmond? " for more answers to your question "Seriously though. What is it about the law that holds Richmond back??? "

Now how does this prevent the aforementioned hypothetical industry in Short Pump or Chesterfield???

This SOUNDS like a situation where the "Greater Richmond Area" would still benefit, but Richmond proper doesn't get the credit.... How is it more than simply semantics on who gets the credit for x industry?? A matter of money and revenue?? Sure... Is it that suburbia getting all the businesses and $$$ means that Richmond's infrastructure crumbles??

I mean I'm not a backwoods hillbilly here and I dont' mind cities growing intelligently, but that just doesn't seem to be the way of things these days. Fairfax becomes a "showcase city" then all that means is that more wilderness gets swallowed up by "commuterville". Just because land is there doesn't mean it has to be used for anything. That's my problem. Didn't realize that legoland was forgone in lieu of townhomes and "cookie-cutters". I'm as against that as anything.

As for the "different Virginia" that I live in. Yeah, I have and do live in a "different" area. I was raised in Charlottesville which has IMO one of the most perfect balances of history, culture, education and industry in the country as far as I (and many major magazines) are concerned.... Somehow they managed this amidst the "archaic laws" of the state....

I'm now over in the Winchester area watching that city get overdeveloped, while the beautiful town of Strasburg has a big SPLOTCH of a factory in the middle of it, and Front Royal continues to cleanup from it's rayon plant superfund site that close 20 years ago and Harrisonburg continues to pollute the Shenendoah River with it's various industries, etc.... So again, forgive me if I'm a little leery of industry.....

Edit: I'm not trying to be confrontational, but giving you my perspective to help you understand.... I've done the "urbanite thing" and you can have it. Also a History Major that cannot stand the thought of a chip plant being built on historic land and am a clean waterway nut that wants to strangle any politician that thinks it's okay for ANY amount of pollutants to be dumped into our waterways. With "progress" comes ALL of this. How can anyone assure otherwise??? There's a part of me that would say, "Do with Richmond and Fairfax what you will", but I can't see how it stops there or doesn't have a negative impact on a much greater portion of the state...