How "Southern" is Charlottesville? (Richmond, Hampton: sex offenders, to live, vs)

[vanyali]

It wasn't when I could or couldn't buy beer that was the problem when I moved south. It was the people themselves.

[Rhett_Butler]

What I'm saying though is that typically the people in the south don't just dislike someone because they aren't FROM there...

[vanyali]

Dislike? Who knows. But snub, disdeign, take advantage of and shut out? Yes. Given that, I don't care too much whether they like me or not.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by vanyali

Dislike? Who knows. But snub, disdeign, take advantage of and shut out? Yes. Given that, I don't care too much whether they like me or not.

Well your experience varies greatly from my own..... We'll leave it at that.

[vanyali]

Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler

Well your experience varies greatly from my own..... We'll leave it at that.

OK. .

[Mr_Jonas]

Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler

Again showing how people just don't get it....

Northern transplant: "This is rediculous!!! Up NORTH I could buy beer on Sunday!!!!"

Southerner: "Well here you can't."

Northern transplant: "Well that's just stupid!!!"

This is the type of attitude that pisses the typical southerner off (just one VERY minor example).

Sounds like when Americans visit Europe

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Mr_Jonas

Sounds like when Americans visit Europe

Probably very similar except Americans are only visiting when they go to Europe...

[scorlock]

A few clarifications on my previous post....

1. Generalizations are just that --> reasoned thoughts based on specific data whose interpretation is formed in to broad rules, thus they are TRUE statements when taken as a WHOLE, but they are not true when taken on an individual basis. Northeasterners, generally speaking, think everyone else is messed up and needs to be more socialistic like them (i.e. less individual freedom and more social constraints). This is a TRUE statement when taken as a general view of laws and social culture that was and is willfully created by the people of the northeastern states over many generations (my sympathies to NH'ites).

2. Since the majority of "people" live in urbanized areas in said northeastern states, the generalized rules represent the majority of people by populous, but not by geography, thus western Mass, western upstate NY, rural NH and other rural parts would not be atypical of the rude stereotype given to northeasterners from over-populated urbanized jungles.

3. Having visited 38 states on various occasions, I still stand by my previous post that Yankee-ville urbanites generally speaking are the most rude Americans (again excepting urban CA), stating that everyone else needs to conform to their version of "progress".

4. In truth, ALL attempts to "invent" some new social order and reckoning is simply another attempt in re-living human history, where all human societal traits and "progress" have been tried before. Ignorantly, most Americans think we are braking new ground when we speak of tolerance and diversity as though it was some kind of modern inspiration, when, in historical fact, has been attempted by many previous civilizations. To say that one geo-cultural group (e.g. Southern USA) is racist, but then outwardly deny inherent bigoted traits (social status, religious status) of other geo-cultural groups (e.g. Northeastern USA) is simply a recipe for societal destruction - again, a common historical fate of EVERY failed nation and civilization.

5. My previous post was not meant to offend anyone, and you choose through your own free-will whether or not to take offense. Personally, I take no offense to anyone stating opinions (whether factual or speculative it does not matter) but will take action against anyone who sees the Southern system as totally flawed and the Northeastern cultural system as nearing perfection. Truly, there are racial bigots in Virginia and C-ville whose skin color is both dark and light in color.


6. C-ville is a progressive community in some ways and blindly ignorant in others. Many people, in their feeble attempts to "belong", do indeed leave their brain at the door when it comes to common sense. For example, one must truly be blind to not see that afro-americans and anglo-americans have about the same percentage of racial bigots. Surely you are not blind to this very observable trait? If not racial bigotry, people WILL ALWAYS find something else to lift and separate themselves from others in order to feel good about, or rather hide from, their own flaws. A truly flawless person will understand and tolerate bigoted behavior in others while trying to ease them slowly toward a more accepting attitude towards differences in others, seeing these differences as strengths in many ways, and not as points for fault-finding. Racism is a cop-out for fault-finding in others.

7. C-ville is a quieter, slower community than the Northeastern USA. Many here, including myself, DO NOT want strip-malls clearing out our trees, skyscrapers obstructing the natural beauty of the sky, and outsiders telling us we need more of "this" or more of "that". Quite frankly, we just need a little more friendliness and a lot less fault-finding.

Additionally, Northeasterners are generally uptight and cranky and do not add positively to the culture of central VA, UNLESS ... UNLESS they adapt to a slower, quieter, more personable, polite way of life. The yanks I know who have come and have stayed have learned this lesson, and thus are happy here.

Best Wishes...

[deserthorse]

You've made it pretty clear that you not only don't have, but also find very objectionable, traits that you attribute to Southern people. You mention you've lived in the South, and formed your opinion of the South having "ugly characteristics" from that experience. So, I'm truly wondering why you'd voluntarily want to move here if you find it basically intolerable.

With this in mind, and your stated desire for a better climate, might I suggest the West? Maybe like Nevada? New Mexico? Arizona?

I'm a transplanted Midwesterner, living (for 20+ years) in one of the most gorgeous places on Earth: Charlottesville, VA. I LOVE it here. Every day I go outside, I could have died and gone to heaven. I can't begin to tell you how much I prefer it to my northwestern OH birthplace, where there was a marked lack of sun, a lot of industry, and a lot of snow that hung around plenty long to turn oily and chunky from exhaust instead of nice and fluffy white.

Charlottesville is called home by a substantial number of highly educated people. Many of these people are native Southerners. Some of them have intentionally lost or minimized the characteristic Southern vernacular, often because of the prejudice that otherwise dogs them. There are also a lot of transplants here. A few from Maine (I personally know of two families) more from New York, Connecticut and New Jersey. Some from the Midwest, too. In addition, there is a fair number of foreign nationals and naturalised foreigners. The University, along with the excellent medical center, is the big drawing card. Well, that and the lovely scenery and mild weather.

House prices are higher than Maine, in general, unless you're right on the water in one of the summer home destinations. You wouldn't feel visually out of place at the home sizes between here and Portland, ME. Of course, here, the houses have a different construction style- Southern and mostly traditional.

Broadly speaking, YES, Charlottesville is traditional and conservative. Also religious. Mostly Christian, yes. Mostly happily Christian, and pretty convinced of that being the *right* thing, period. That said, there are a good number of somewhat lapsed Christians; think Ralph Waite and Will Geer on the Waltons TV show. There is also at least one Jewish congregation, at least two Catholic churches and one Greek Orthodox church. I am not implying in any way that Catholic or Orthodox are not Christians. I don't know of a mosque, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. I do know there are practicing Hindu people here. Also Mennonites (more in the Valley) and LDS. You would not be looked at oddly if you were shopping in Charlottesville and said "Thank you, Jesus!" aloud. You would see several Christmas displays including definitely Christian symbols. Nevertheless, I think this is a tolerant town. None of the people I know out of the Christian mainstream have been harassed because of it.

The city itself leans Democrat, a little. The county leans a little Republican, but not always. Our current governor is a Republican turned Democrat. Out in the more rural areas to the north of Albemarle, Republican. Part of this, yes, a big part, is the religious tie-in to conservatism.

Charlottesville is not the very clannish circle that, for instance, you might find in Richmond. Because of the University, people of all sorts come and go. Still, the people here who are Southern, and have been Southern long enough to call themselves that in any company, do have a different culture than you do from Maine. The shared heritage makes it easier for Southerners to understand Southerners than to understand you, or you, them. For instance, if you are 50 or older, and you are a Southerner, you grew up with legal segregation. This was the way your parents lived, and what you were taught. Chances are very high you also grew up with Christian church being a very important part of your life. I think these differences are the source of a lot of the cultural friction. Plus, people from other places tend to move here, and then want to CHANGE everything. They come here because they like it, then they want to make it like what they left behind and didn't like as well. I have- no kidding- seen this happen a LOT.

As for overt racism, I think Charlottesville has little overt, and not much covert racism. I would call the town pretty well integrated, actually. Much better integrated than where I came from in OH! Sexism- I don't think so, no. Homophobia... well. I wouldn't call it homophobia. There is a well tolerated gay community here. However, it's not considered Christian, so most homegrown people are not for same sex marriage or the like. Many are rather emphatically *against* that. Having said that, there were many famous gay Southerners. The only one who immediately springs to my mind is Truman Capote, but there is a list. OH, Rita Mae Brown the local author!

All in all, I can feel the differences once I get to know people. There are incongruous moments. Not much upon first meeting, but as you get closer. I'm not even going to attempt to more fully explain that here, because this is already way too long, I'm sure!

Worth a mention: there are VERY few adult entertainment places in full view of the public here. If you're way into porno, you are NOT going to be walking down Bourbon Street. No way. If you have children, you'll find this is in many ways the good part of what family values should mean. Most parents are good to their children, very involved in their upbringing, and families often do things together, like picnics and fireworks, and First Night Virginia and biking. Sports are a popular pastime, both spectator and participant, and no, I don't mean just NASCAR. College football, polo, steeplechase, tennis, rugby, lacrosse, running.

I think almost everyone goes to the Outer Banks in North Carolina once a summer.

Other Southern places you might consider: the Atlanta area, the NC research triangle, Kentucky, Florida. If you go anywhere with a chip on your shoulder, you are probably going to have a hard time feeling like you fit in

Originally Posted by cassidygal

I'm a native New Englander, and love the Northeast. In particular, I adore Portland, Maine. Generally speaking, I love everything about Portland (and New England in general) ... except the weather. I am looking for a city in a warmer & sunnier part of the country, but which has a culture similar to that of Portland.

A few people I know have recommended Charlottesville, Virginia -- but from what I can tell, Charlottesville is a lot more conservative/Bible Belt than Portland & New England more broadly speaking. Now, I'm not a knee-jerk liberal. But I am looking for someplace where, on average, people are tolerant and open-minded, and where the populace is generally well-educated. If we start a family, I don't want my children exposed on a daily basis to overt racism, sexism, and religious bigotry as part of the culture. I have lived in the South before, and, unfortunately, have found far, far more of those ugly characteristics than in New England.

Any ideas on other warmer/sunnier cities that a Portland-lover would love?

[JGallimore]

I have lived in both Virginia and in Portland, Maine. I actually moved to Maine from Virginia seven years ago with my life partner of many years. In the beginning we had this grand illusion that once we moved to New England all would be bliss, no racism, no homophobia and in general a more progressive environment. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Portland, it is truly a fantastic city in which to work and play. The cultural diversity here would be the pride of a city many times Portland's size. (pop.64,000) However after seven years we have decided that we will be moving back to Virginia or North Carolina, due mostly to our growing disdain for the New England winters. Having said all this, the racism and homophobia issues that you speak about in the south are very much a part of the New England cultural fabric too. I cannot tell you how often I hear people in Portland say....."Well you know I don't have anything against black people, BUT............ This goes to show that you will find uninformed, ill educated morons wherever you end up living. Charlottesville is a wonderful city and after being away from Virginia, I began to truly appreciate the state more than ever. There are so many things that I miss. Portland, Maine will always be dear to my heart, but Virginia is where our next chapter will be written. I wish you luck and I promise you that if you do indeed move to Charlottesville, you will be making a truly exciting decision. Charming, madly historical, quaint, progressive, well educated, these all accurately describe the city of Charlottesville, a magnificent choice if you ask me.