What is it like to teach in Virginia without a Teacher's Union??? (Virginia Beach: rent, how much)

[Mandalynns]

Hello,
My husband and I are looking to move to VA and I just found out that it is a non teacher's union state. I didn't even know that this existed! I currently teach in NJ and our union has supported us and potected us. What is it like to teach without a union? Do you still get tenure? Does this mean that they can pay you less and place you on a different step on the scale depending on how easy your position is to fill? I an an Art teacher and will have 6 or more years experience (probably 8) when we will move. What are my chances at getting a position that will place me appropriately on the scale? We really like what we have heard and seen about Roanoke, Chesapeake and Mannassas. Does anyone have an opinion of these places as a teacher? We also have a child and need to live in a good district as well.

Thanks, Mandalynns
a hopefully future VA resident

[Hinton Bound]

Originally Posted by Mandalynns

Hello,
My husband and I are looking to move to VA and I just found out that it is a non teacher's union state. I didn't even know that this existed! I currently teach in NJ and our union has supported us and potected us. What is it like to teach without a union? Do you still get tenure? Does this mean that they can pay you less and place you on a different step on the scale depending on how easy your position is to fill? I an an Art teacher and will have 6 or more years experience (probably 8) when we will move. What are my chances at getting a position that will place me appropriately on the scale? We really like what we have heard and seen about Roanoke, Chesapeake and Mannassas. Does anyone have an opinion of these places as a teacher? We also have a child and need to live in a good district as well.

Thanks, Mandalynns
a hopefully future VA resident

So exactly what has the Union supported and protected you from? Pay cuts? Given the dismal state of our public education, I think most teachers are OVERPAID based on their performance.

My neighbor teaches in Chesapeake (6th grade) and hates it. Not the job, but dealing with the parents. He's nearing 20 years and is counting the days until he can retire.

[VA Yankee]

Helllo again Mandalynns,

I din't mean to scare you with my last post . I work for a school system but in a non-teaching position. As a parent I can give you some advantages here versus a "union" district in NY.

1) My kids never had to start school late because of a strike.
2) Poor teachers could be dismissed rather than being retained due to tenure.
3) Regional districts have provided pay raises each year for the last 10+
years vice pay freezes experienced by those I know in "union" districts.
4) All state teachers are under the Virginia Retirement System (VRS) this
means that after 5 years you are vested. More important should you
switch school systems your retirement follows you. Unlike up north each
district is the retirement here it is a state wide system. Some areas like
Fairfax add more to that retirement but I am not sure how, contact them.

I have family that teaches in a less than desirable district in NY. She would like to switch but can only do so if she finds a "tenured" position. Either way her retirement may be effected by the switch. Is this better? Here she would simply hire in at a salary based on her credentials, experience and negotiating skills with no loss of her retirement.

I am not a fan of unions and have seen too many negitive effects of them in many industries.Hopefully some current teachers will be able to provide you answers based on their experiences, good luck.

[Rhett_Butler]

Having worked for a school system in both, a Unionized state (Florida) and now here I can say that there are DEFINATELY advantages and disadvantages to both...

Seriously in Florida I ran into the situation with teachers and district employees that couldn't be fired no matter how terrible they were... That's frustrating to see for sure.

In Virginia however there's little recourse as an employee and it's frustrating.... Management is ALWAYS right and what clout do you have to say otherwise???

I can say that Virginia has gotten more out of me as an employee and maybe made me a harder worker, but the flip side of that is that I'm much more miserable and stressed having to fear for my job on a daily basis no matter how hard I work...

[Mandalynns]

I have been reading various posts on city-data and can say that I am really tired of hearing that teachers are OVERPAID and that tenure creates bad teachers. Yes, some teachers take the easy route when they get tenure (which is only granted during your 4th year in a district and it does not follow you.) I studied very hard and have my master's degree, yet, because I am a teacher, I am treated like a slave to the parents, the district and the state. Some comments that I have seen reference that we have 3 months off and only work 6 hours of the day. We DO NOT get 3 months off and DO NOT work only 6 hours of the day. When you are a teacher, it is who you are as a person. With lesson planning, curriculum writing, parent meetings, one on one help, training and endless preparation, we CERTAINLY find a way to work IN EXCESS of 6 hours a day. When you are a teacher, there is no such thing as leaving your work at home. It comes with you. Your lessons, your students and your ideas are on your mind when you lie your head on the pillow at night and they are there in the shower in the morning. Why do I stay? I love my purpose. I believe that someone needs to teach our children. Unforunately, parents have written off so many responsibilities and passed them off to us. If I didn't love it, then I would not love myself now would I? Because...as I said before, it is not just a job, you ARE a TEACHER. Having an effect on the future is a cumbersome thing to grapple and a very big concept to grasp. Perhaps that is why we are looked down on so frequently. I do not think I am paid my worth. However, I don't think ANY district could afford to pay the true worth of teachers. This was a response to Hinton Bound. If your friend is so unhappy with teaching and is staying in it for the money for retirement, he must be a miserable feat for the children to deal with day after day. How is that so different from the big, bad tenured teachers who lose that fire at their rear to keep their job? Aren't they the same animal? The way I see it, tenure and teacher's unions protect my job while I am on maternity leave, protect MY vested hours and sweat into my position and ensure that I am not treated like gravel by administrators in addition to the ever so popular ostricization by parents and other citizens. My question was simply: Are these areas of concern for Virginia teachers, or are there other mandates in play that will protect me?

[tgbwc]

Mandalynns,

Virginia is a "right to work" state. We do have unions and associations for teachers. Being a right to work state basically means that membership in a union or association can't be required in order for you to hold a position. They place you on the step based on your number of years experience. I have never heard of a district picking and choosing on which step you will be placed.

I believe there are differences also between different parts of VA and how much "clout" these groups have. My parents and brother worked in the SW part of the state and compared to where I work, the teachers were taken advantage of a bit. The attitude and expectations were totally different. For example, my contract hours are just that. My principal knows that she can't require me to be at regularly scheduled mtg. before or after those times. We do our IEP meetings, staff mtgs., etc. during the contracted day. In my brother's district, he might have to be in a IEP mtg. 2 hours after school, or at a staff mtg. for an hour after school. That wouldn't fly here. My duty free lunch is guaranteed. We know what can and cannont be asked of us and we stand up for each other if we have too. We do plenty of extra, don't get me wrong, but I feel we are respected.

I teach for Fairfax County and we have two main organizations...the Fairfax Education Assoc. (NEA) and the Fairfax County Federation of Teachers (AFT). I am on the board for the latter. Although we do not have collective bargaining, the union does serve as a good "watchdog", letting its members know what is coming down the pike and rally its members. I have seen the union help out members with legal matters, win evaluation grievances, and gain changes in policies that were quite unfair.

In addition to the state retirement system (VRS), each employee in Fairfax Co. pays into the ERFC (the county supplemental retirement system). It is a good plan and I like the fact that every teacher has to participate. Prince William Co, as a comparison, does not have a mandatory supplemental plan, but does do some annuity matching if you choose to participate.

[Mandalynns]

that was incredibly informative. Thank you so much. The IEP meetings and duty free lunches are exactly what I was referencing. When interviewing for a position, is it bad etiquette to ask about the availability of such programs in that district. I really do not know what parts of VA are considered southwestern and when it is central? So, Fairfax County and Prince William are good to aim for. Does anyone have any others? I read that Loudon County was a good place to live. But, I don't see how I can afford it on a teachers salary.

[tgbwc]

How many years do you have? Any advanced degrees? Look at the county site to see where the pay scale would put you.

[pbehson]

Originally Posted by Mandalynns

that was incredibly informative. Thank you so much. The IEP meetings and duty free lunches are exactly what I was referencing. When interviewing for a position, is it bad etiquette to ask about the availability of such programs in that district. I really do not know what parts of VA are considered southwestern and when it is central? So, Fairfax County and Prince William are good to aim for. Does anyone have any others? I read that Loudon County was a good place to live. But, I don't see how I can afford it on a teachers salary.

I teach in Virginia Beach and am from NJ (Sparta). I think that living here is great.

We are placed on a continuing contract after three successful years. After that point we are evaluated every other year. While we don't have tenure, the district guarantees you a job as long as you don't have terrible evaluations. We have protected time every day and have a set salary scale. I am in Va Ret. System with full health care contributions after 25 years of svc. (paid by the city). I'm not quite sure how a union would be any better - hard to say.

My wife and I live in a nice house in a great neighborhood (2500 sq. ft/all brick/4Br/2.5 Ba/home price is 35% above the median in VB, which is a nice city) on two teachers salaries. I do have an engineering degree and worked in that capacity for 10 years, however my wife was a stay at home mom at the time, so we made less $.

Good luck.

[sregorat3]

I had a friend who recently moved to Greensboro from NJ. She had taught in Lynchburg for 6 years before heading north and teaching in Westfield. She really liked the job; the big difference for her was a 30% increase in pay and a paid teachers asst. that handled all her take home grading. That being said, her rent almost quadrupled- literally! Do all NJ teachers get a paid asst. or is that a district specific benefit?