Richmond vs. Roanoke (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Arlington: best cities, sales, apartment)

[ScranBarre]

Good afternoon forum,

As some of you may already know I am not exactly the biggest fan of living in Reston, Virginia. While I would still recommend NoVA as having a great quality-of-life for others, especially families, I myself just feel like a fish flapping around out of water. I grew up in the Rust Belt city of Scranton, PA (of "The Office", Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton fame), and while I may not be homesick for Scranton in particular I'm very disheartened by the culture shock I've experienced here in NoVA. Instead of block after block of sidewalk-lined and tree-lined streets in an orderly grid shape with lots of tidy older homes we have wide winding streets with very few sidewalks and a lot of uninspiring earth-toned-colored 1970s-era (or newer) homes. There are no such things as front porches here, and block parties or backyard neighborhood BBQs are not very commonplace. We have far too many chain restaurants and big-box retailers and a dearth of mom-and-pop operations. The fact that the area's urban planning is so poor has led the region to having the nation's second-worst traffic congestion, and this is only expectd to worsen with the anticipated continued influx of newcomers with little or no infrastructural improvements. This is a very transient area where everyone is from someplace else and very few people have civic pride as a direct result of not having grown much "attachment" to the area whereas many where I came from were the fourth or fifth generation of homesteaders. Many come here exclusively for a promising career---as I did. Some fall in love with the area. I'm not one of them.

Anyhow I hope to scope out both Richmond and Roanoke in the coming months as potential places to relocate to and find employment in if I do decide that I'd like to stay in Virginia. The only places in NoVA I actually don't abhor (Arlington, Alexandria, Winchester, Fredericksburg, etc.) are either far too expensive for a young single person to comfortably afford or are too isolated for a young single person to really find himself or herself. As such I can't ever envision myself staying here long-term. I've heard good things about both Richmond and Roanoke for various reasons, and I'm personally looking for my pals (or more appropriately the many on here who just want to shut me up) to please suggest one area over the other and/or what features each city has that may appeal to me.

What I want in a city?

• A traditional downtown. It doesn't have to be as "hip" or "lively" as Austin, Asheville, or hell, even Old Town Alexandria or Charlottesville, but it would be nice to have a TRUE downtown area that I would be proud to take visitors to for a bite to eat at a sidewalk cafe followed by a trip to a mom-and-pop ice cream parlor and a trip to the theater/cultural center. Reston has its "town center," but it feels very artificial. Last night I saw more people "posing" with their designer clothing, expensive mixed drinks, and their sunglasses on after dark than I'd ever before seen (what recession?!) I'm looking for a more nostalgic or "down-to-earth" downtown that could be a mix of businesses catering to both the blue-collar and white-collar crowds. I want a downtown that people are proud of.
• Well-planned older residential neighborhoods. Ideally I'd like to rent an apartment and/or the basement/spare rooms of a single-family home on a tree-lined street with a sidewalk within a one-mile walk to that aforementioned downtown business district. I'd prefer low violent crime (I don't care about property crime). I'd love a neighborhood with front porches, people chatting over backyard fences, grandmothers pulling grandkids down the sidewalks in little red wagons, children having lemonade stands, etc., etc.
• A population at least TOLERANT of the LGBT community. I'm a reserved (borderline Republican at times) and masculine gay male. I go out of my way to try to ensure that I'm not at all affectionate in public so as not to cause offense to anyone. In return I'd like to live in a neighborhood that wouldn't give a damn about my sexual orientation (INCLUDING the "behind closed doors gossip" that many heterosexuals like to adamantly claim doesn't exist).
• Festivals/parades. Nothing makes me feel happier than to be able to participate in a wide array of events aimed at promoting a sense of camaraderie in the community. I'd love to be able to walk down to the main drag to see a Memorial Day parade, attend "First Friday" art walks, enjoy a Multicultural Food Festival, a Gay Pride Festival, a Christmas festival with carolers, hot cocoa stations, and special sidewalk sales from independent merchants, etc., etc.
• Skyline. I know this will unfairly slant me towards Richmond, but one of the few saving graces that has managed to keep me sane here in Reston---the suburb "posing" as a city---is the presence of its mid-rise skyline. At least when I come out of my complex at night and see it lit up I can sort of feel like I'm in a pseudo-urban environment. I don't need a ton of tall buildings to make me happy, but I'd like to be able to round a bend in the road on my way home from visiting family in PA and tear up to see "home" in the distance in the means of an easily-identifiable landmark, such as a skyline.

I'll add more criteria as they come to mind, but as of right now please give me the "pros" and "cons" of EACH city. I'm certain we have at least one resident expert on this forum for each city, so input from both would be much appreciated. I've already done some evaluations of my own in my head (i.e. Richmond has more college students but higher violent crime while Roanoke has fewer younger people to potentially date and befriend but is much more wholesome on the crime front). Career-wise I'm currently employed as an auditor but would be willing to branch out ANYWHERE in the financial/business sector if it meant I lived in a place I truly loved---even if it was working for PNC Bank as an investment advisor or working as a retail manager at Lowe's or something.

Thank you all very much in advance!

[ScranBarre]

The more and more I've been researching the more and more I'm finding myself gravitating towards Roanoke's "Old Southwest" neighborhood. After a cursory look on CraigsList under "Rooms/Shared" I found this gem of an ad that intrigued me: Beautiful Home to Share - available Sept. 22 . I clicked the link within the ad to read more about the neighborhood, and I really enjoyed what I saw and researched. This looks to be exactly what I seek---a historic and walkable neighborhood where neighbors care about neighbors and within walking distance to a hip downtown.

Old Southwest, Inc - Roanoke, Virginia - Roanoke's Historic Neighborhood

Does Richmond have anything comparable to this neighborhood. What about "The Fan?" Would I stick out like a sore thumb in a neighborhood like Old Southwest Roanoke as a 22-year-old single gay professional male (i.e. is the area more empty-nester or middle-aged DINK-oriented?) Tell me more about Old Southwest (or other comparable Roanoke and Richmond neighborhoods) please!

[cityboi757]

Thefan is much better than that neighborhood

[540_804]

Richmond. (though I love Roanoke... I love them both actually..hence my screenname..lol)

I think both Roanoke and Richmond could satisfy your criteria, but Richmond probably to a greater extent.

Surprisingly, crime in Richmond isn't as bad as it looks on paper. Richmond violent crime tends to be very localized to certain areas. Property crime is pretty widespread but typically its crime, such as petty theft, that could have been easily prevented (no offense to those who have had their items stolen). I read the crime reports all the time and the most common is always something along the lines of "property removed from unsecured location". Unfortunately people leave laptops, ipods, phones, bikes, skateboards, etc unsecured and in plain sight (like the front seat of their car, or on a sidewalk table at Starbucks).

Richmond has the best older neighborhoods, hands down. Roanoke has a few very nice historic areas and others that are fast-developing but it just can't compare to the size and scope of Richmond's historic districts. Roanoke primarily has Old SW, South Roanoke and Raleigh Court.
Richmond has The Fan, The Museum District, Carytown, Church Hill, Carver, Shockoe Bottom, Byrd Court, Manchester, Jackson Ward, Monroe Ward, Oregon Hill, Tobacco Row, and others. Too many to name really.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how common "people chatting over backyard fences, grandmothers pulling grandkids down the sidewalks in little red wagons, children having lemonade stands" is any more in any part of the country. People here (both Richmond and Roanoke) tend to be pretty friendly, even if its just a polite "Good Morning" or smile as they pass you on the sidewalk.

Both Richmond and Roanoke are fairly tolerant to "alternative" lifestyles and are tolerant of LGBT individuals. Both have an active LGBT community from what I understand, though Richmond's is larger and arguably more active with more resources. Richmond also has more gay clubs (not sure if you're into clubbing or not) ranging from mild to wild (well, wild to me anyway).

Roanoke and Richmond both have great festivals throughout the year. Richmond probably has more/larger festivals, simply a function of its larger and more diverse populace. Both cities actually have a First Fridays Art Walk. Richmond's is of course larger (again, larger population). I would say Richmond's art scene is a bit more active than Roanoke's, especially since Richmond is home to VCU which houses the top public art school in the country.

I think Richmond would probably provide the most career development opportunity for you. Richmond attracts quite a few larger businesses and employment opportunities are generally pretty strong.

I honestly don't think you could go wrong with either. Roanoke is considerably smaller and after a while you feel kind of bored and isolated from other bigger cities. However, that isolation is not always a bad thing.

[540_804]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

The more and more I've been researching the more and more I'm finding myself gravitating towards Roanoke's "Old Southwest" neighborhood. After a cursory look on CraigsList under "Rooms/Shared" I found this gem of an ad that intrigued me: Beautiful Home to Share - available Sept. 22 . I clicked the link within the ad to read more about the neighborhood, and I really enjoyed what I saw and researched. This looks to be exactly what I seek---a historic and walkable neighborhood where neighbors care about neighbors and within walking distance to a hip downtown.

Old Southwest, Inc - Roanoke, Virginia - Roanoke's Historic Neighborhood

Does Richmond have anything comparable to this neighborhood. What about "The Fan?" Would I stick out like a sore thumb in a neighborhood like Old Southwest Roanoke as a 22-year-old single gay professional male (i.e. is the area more empty-nester or middle-aged DINK-oriented?) Tell me more about Old Southwest (or other comparable Roanoke and Richmond neighborhoods) please!

Old SW is nice, but it isn't nearly as 'established' as The Fan among young professionals. I think Old SW is still very much in the transition stage from "old SW" to "Old SW" (with a capital O!).

I love the houses in Old SW though:

I love these! (though I could never live in a house that colorful):





Edit: as a disclaimer, if the houses in the last pics look run-down...its because they are. Virtually the whole neighborhood is being rehabbed and those are the ones that haven't been sold and fixed-up yet.

[ScranBarre]

Thanks for your insight and for posting these wonderful pictures! I've been zooming around Roanoke with Google's "Street View," and it reminds me quite a bit of my native Scranton, PA (only with less steep hills and, amazingly, slightly more run-down and weathered, overall, which I never thought possible). I really love those homes. I read the neighborhood's long-term comprehensive plan, and it includes finding funding sources to move above-grade utilities underground and to improve curbing/sidewalks. It seems to me that as Downtown Roanoke bounces back this particular neighborhood should really take off.

I am also going to heavily investigate Richmond. I may decide to rent a hotel room for next Saturday evening and go down early Saturday morning, scouring the city, and then leave Sunday afternoon. I have an old high school/college friend (also gay) attending graduate school at VCU, so perhaps I'll ask him what he thinks of Richmond from a quality-of-life standpoint.

I think by and large with no matter which city I consider I'm going to miss one thing---winter. I doubt either city gets much snow, and I do like me some of the white fluffy stuff coating the bare birch tree limbs!

[540_804]

Yeah, not much snow. From what I have experienced, Roanoke gets more snow than Richmond, even though its more southern. I've never experienced a real snowfall in Richmond except this March when we had that freak snow storm.

And fortunately, the Google Street View images are quite a few years old, and much improvement has been done since then.

For instance, this old factory:


Is now:






Another Roanoke neighborhood to look at is South Roanoke.

A nice old, charming neighborhood. Mostly professionals (doctors, lawyers). Its a bit more expensive than Old SW but not really unfairly priced. The median household income in the neighborhood is ~100k, while ~60% of the houses are valued between 200k-300k, and another 30% priced at 300k+. Compared to other areas, the income-to-price ratio is pretty good.
Doesn't necessarily have the 'hip' factor that Old SW is trying to create but it is a very nice neighborhood. It has quite a few local eateries and is convenient to downtown but not really walkable to downtown.

[roanoker 4]

Richmond & Roanoke are Virginias' best cities by far, in my opinion. Both have their own character, traditions and unique style architecture. I am familiar with Scranton as I had relatives there years ago. In many ways Roanoke is more of a "homey" type place than Richmond. The population here is not transient and it is more stable. I love the history, architecture and the potential that Richmond offers but I love the natural beauty, the ability to leave the City and escape to the Blue Ridge Parkway at any time. The lakes around here are beautiful, Snowshoe in WV, The Homestead in Hot Springs,
Lexington are very close. We had the largest gay pride rally in the Park last weekend with front page coverage with over 3,000 folks. The cultural scene is growing downtown with new art galleries, theatres, ethnic restaurants, etc. So many people who visit here from NoVa, Richmond are amazed at how
"alive", safe and cosmpolitan the area is. If you are from Scranton you will relate to what I am saying. BTW, I agree with your analysis of NoVa. There are many young people from this area and elsewhere who migrate to where the jobs are. Washington DC area and Roanoke have very few similarites. From others who have written on this subject it really depends on what stage of life you find yourself. I invite others to visit Roanoke and discover this unique area of the state.

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by roanoker 4

Richmond & Roanoke are Virginias' best cities by far, in my opinion. .

No way Roanoke is better than Virginia Beach or Norfolk. Virginia's two biggest cities.

[Stpattylady]

I grew up in Richmond and lived there until 2006 - in the suburbs though, namely Midlothian, but I am very familiar with the entire city. Richmond gets a really bad rap in terms of crime; it really is isolated to a few areas. I lived there for 40 years and never had a single problem. Up until I was around middle school age, I lived in the city with my family until they moved out to the suburbs because it was getting too expensive for my parents to pay for private school for three kids.

As others have suggested, I think you would love the fan area. In fact, if we return to Richmond, I'm thinking about the fan. Oh and btw, I'm in Charlottesville now, you might like it. It's worth taking a look at. I'm not a huge fan, but it is loved by many. I'm extremely bored here though and the job market is dismal, which is why I wouldn't recommend it.

Some other areas in Richmond you may like would be Westover Hills, and Ginter Park. Most of Glen Allen and Midlothian are comprised of typcial suburbs with lots of cookie cutter subdivisions, but very nice.

I think you'll have an easier time finding a job with higher wages in Richmond.