Should burquas be legalized in VA? (crime, felony, homes)

[CAVA1990]

Under current Virginia law it is a class 6 felony to wear a muslim burqua, which conceals the face, in a public place. Should the law be changed to allow an exception for them as is made for protective gear, haloween and theatrical costumes, or medical reasons?

[TrueIsraelite]

No. Because if it is changed people will take advantage of the exceptions to challenge the legality of wearing it whenever they want. This is not a muslim country.

[Huckleberry3911948]

not unless we wanta go the path of france, which will soon be, fight or fold.

[blu_monk]

Hell no. You don't want people to see your face, stay at home.

[540_804]

I think that when you look at this particular situation you have to consider de jure prohibition vs de facto legalization, and in doing so you have to look at the circumstances surrounding the law that 'prohibits' (and I use that term loosely) the wearing of the burqa in VA.

The original law that you are referring to (Virginia Code § 18.2-422) was drafted in 1950 as a means to stop the KKK. The theory was, if you criminalize the wearing of masks you could discourage KKK activity. The law was amended several times to add exceptions and refine it a bit and now the primary goal is not only to discourage the KKK but also to stop would-be robbers/criminals.

The list of exceptions is not in anyway exhaustive. The last time it was amended was in the late 80s; at that time I would bet that the average American didn't know what a burqa was.

All of that goes back to my original point about de facto vs de jure law. While the burqa may be illegal by law (in that it wasn't expressly exempted from the prohibition), the fact of the matter is, you would almost never be prosecuted for it.

I can only remember one case in VA involving a burqa and it was actually a male wearing it...lol. And he had a weapon on him as well.

If you come to my school you will see several young women who wear the full head-to-toe burqa and abaya (body covering, head covering and face covering).

Do I think it should be legalized? Yes and no. Yes I think it should be legalized to prevent it from being used as a tool for discrimination. However, I can also understand reasons for wanting it being banned as well.

Its such a tricky issue though. You can see countries all over the world struggling with it. On the one hand you have the issue of personal liberty and freedom. Some activists would say prohibiting it is encroaching on a person's rights. On the other hand I know practicing, devout Muslim women who would love for them to be banned; they see the burqa (and abaya) as not a symbol of religious piety but more of a symbol of the social injustice that women endure in a few countries with extremest Islamic regimes.

[SCBeaches]

In regards to the safety and security of all citizens, I feel they should not be legalized. If someone commits a crime wearing a burqua, no one can identify them. There have been issues where Muslim women felt it was their right to wear their burqua for their driver's license and passport photos...what's the point in having photos taken then??
I feel they should wear them in their own homes and in their mosques, but not out among the general public. I think this would be opening up a huge Pandora's Box where "anything goes...."

[Nebat]

I never realized or gave it any thought that they were illegal. I'm all about respecting other peoples customs, but this form of dress is meant to be somewhat degrading to the women I believe. As the men are so jealous of their wives or daughters that they don't want any other men looking at them and getting wrong ideas that could tempt their women into adultry or something like that. I honestly don't know much about it but definitely don't think women wear them because they want to.

[540_804]

Originally Posted by SCBeaches

In regards to the safety and security of all citizens, I feel they should not be legalized. If someone commits a crime wearing a burqua, no one can identify them. There have been issues where Muslim women felt it was their right to wear their burqua for their driver's license and passport photos...what's the point in having photos taken then??
I feel they should wear them in their own homes and in their mosques, but not out among the general public. I think this would be opening up a huge Pandora's Box where "anything goes...."

You say: If someone commits a crime wearing a burqua, no one can identify them.

A fundamental characteristic of a criminal is his or her disregard for the law. I would be willing to bet that never in the history of criminal behavior has a potential robber been deterred from committing the robbery upon learning that the wearing of a mask in public was prohibited. If a criminal wanted to wear a burqa to commit a crime, he or she would do it regardless of any law to prohibit it. No need to outlaw the wearing of it for all for fear of the actions of few.


Further you say: I think this would be opening up a huge Pandora's Box where "anything goes...."

It does open up "Pandora's Box" as you say, but maybe not in the way you may have been thinking. If we were to allow the state (government) to prohibit the wearing of the burqa, what would stop them from prohibiting other practices that could, in some way, be construed as a potential threat? At what point do we decide that our personal freedoms (in this case religious) are being encroached upon by the government?
Another way to look at it: what if the government decided that followers of Hasidic Judaism could no longer wear their orthodox garb. The bekishe that they wear would be similar to the abaya that muslim women wearing. They also usually wear some sort of headgear, often a large fur spodik or shtreimel and wear long, uncut facial hair. What if we were to apply the ideology that "security trumps personal freedom" as so many in this thread seem to subscribe to. Well, in that case we would have to prohibit the public wearing of the bekishe, spodik and long hair, as all could be used to not only conceal identifying bodily traits as well as hide weapons on the individual.

What if the government mandated that we all must wear form-fitting spandex jumpsuits to prevent anyone from concealing a weapon or hiding their identity? After all it is in the interest of public safety. Sounds far-fetched and a bit hyperbolic but its the same theory that leads many to believe the burqa shouldn't be allowed. As you said, its opening a "Pandora's Box"

Originally Posted by Nebat

I never realized or gave it any thought that they were illegal. I'm all about respecting other peoples customs, but this form of dress is meant to be somewhat degrading to the women I believe. As the men are so jealous of their wives or daughters that they don't want any other men looking at them and getting wrong ideas that could tempt their women into adultry or something like that. I honestly don't know much about it but definitely don't think women wear them because they want to.

If I had a reason to want burqas illegal, this would be it.

However, It all depends on who you ask, and their particular beliefs on the burqa. Many women do, in fact, enjoy wearing them as a symbol of religious piety and purity. On the other hand, I know women who would never dare to wear one and completely detest even the thought of wearing one. There's not really a clear line between one or the other.

Who's to say that the burqa is not a genuine display of modesty? Almost all religious have similar protocol. Their are Christian denominations that have certain protocol that dictate modesty in dress (long sleeves for women, long dresses and in some denominations even head coverings), though many choose not to follow. Practitioners of Judaism also follow a mandate on modest dress. It would be wrong to single-out Islamic teachings just because we don't agree with them.

[jmking]

Strange, I didn't know it was illegal. Funny thing is, soon after 9-11 I saw many wearing burquas here in Northern VA. As time passed I've seen less and less. I wonder why that is?

[540_804]

For all intents they are not illegal, but I really couldn't tell you why you may have seen less as time passed. Perhaps after 9/11, as the world became more fixated on Islam we just noticed them more than before. Maybe you just don't notice them as much now as you did then?