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I'm glad to know I'm not the only one out there who can drive a stick and work on her own car....and I agree with Mitch. There aren't many of us out there.
Actually the TDI is an upgrade to the SE which starts at $20395, but with the additional options that the TDI comes with the price would be $22631 for a comparable SE. The TDI starts at $23660, with the sunroof. That's a $1029, not $5000 difference and not what I would call "considerably more expensive", and the TDI comes with a six-speed instead of the five-speed transmission that's not available on the SE, but makes considerable difference in the drivability of the TDI.
Made a mistake. I didn't spot the auto trans in the SEL so here is goes.
The SEL which is the closest to the TDI as far as trim level cost @ $24030
A TDI with the auto trans $1100, sunroof $1000, 17' tires $450, and ipod cable $199, would list out at $26159.
That's a $2129 additional cost from a gas to diesel. When you take into consideration the $1300 Federal income tax credit the difference it $829.
First off I'll say , I never buy new.... so everything I have to offer is about a used vehicle.
I've been a diesel person since '01 , but a year and a half ago I bought my first VW TDI. It is a '00 Jetta GLS 5spd. And so far I love it. I've put about 35k miles on it and usually get 46-48mpg... now I do drive 75 + plus quite regularly. I have modded mine , injector nozzles, ecu programming , larger turbo, and it's been like that since I purchased it (I can't leave anything alone) so I can't comment on how it was stock. A friend has a '01 Golf TDI, with just some ecu programming and he gets 50-52 mpg.
Now I have heard that the newer TDI's and pretty much all newer diesels do not get the mileage that the older (pre '05's) ones get.
If you do purchase one, do your research. Learn how to maintain it. Do not rely on the stealer. They are fairly inexpensive vehicles to operate and maintain , as long as you can do some things yourself and buy the parts at the right places. I'd also stay away from the auto's, and go with a manual.
I really like this car and sure there are some quirks , mainly electrical glitches (everything on this car has a sensor or is tied into the ecu) but I would purchase another one. Actually found several I'd like to buy right now but have to wait til I wear this one out... probably another 150k miles from now.
Made a mistake. I didn't spot the auto trans in the SEL so here is goes.
The SEL which is the closest to the TDI as far as trim level cost @ $24030
A TDI with the auto trans $1100, sunroof $1000, 17' tires $450, and ipod cable $199, would list out at $26159.
That's a $2129 additional cost from a gas to diesel. When you take into consideration the $1300 Federal income tax credit the difference it $829.
No where near $5000.
Gee, my bad.
What if the guy WANTS to buy one of the lower-priced gassers? Or one with a manual transmission (which always gets better mileage)? The bottom line is that if you think you can get "off the lot" with a TDI for only $900 more than a gasser, you're deluded.
Also, you need to do some more research into the $1300 tax CREDIT. That is NOT "cash in the pocket."
Either way, it doesn't matter. You're determined that they're pretty much the same price, even though they're not.
Now let's do some figuring... Locally, today, gas is $2.49 per gallon and diesel is $2.89 per gallon. Let's assume 32 mpg for the manual gasser and 45 mpg on the automatic TDI - both of which are completely realistic (my son has a Jetta with the 5-speed & 2.0 liter, and regularly gets upwards of 34 mpg on the highway).
When all the calculations are done, it costs $170 more - over 10,000 miles - to run the gasser than it does to run the TDI. (And that doesn't include winter driving, which necessitates buying #1 diesel, which is more expensive.) It's probably more accurate to say you're going to save about $150 in gas, over 10,000 miles, driving the TDI.
So... You're going to drive the TDI 100,000 miles just to save the added cost of buying it. And that is a "best case scenario." And even that doesn't take into account the added expense of repairs on a diesel.
I'm all for buying diesel. I've had quite a few of them. But we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that they're some sort of cash cow.
What if the guy WANTS to buy one of the lower-priced gassers? Or one with a manual transmission (which always gets better mileage)? The bottom line is that if you think you can get "off the lot" with a TDI for only $900 more than a gasser, you're deluded.
Also, you need to do some more research into the $1300 tax CREDIT. That is NOT "cash in the pocket."
Either way, it doesn't matter. You're determined that they're the same price, even though they're not.
Now let's do some figuring... Locally, today, gas is $2.49 per gallon and diesel is $2.89 per gallon. Let's assume 32 mpg for the manual gasser and 45 mpg on the automatic TDI - both of which are completely realistic (my son has a Jetta with the 5-speed & 2.0 liter, and regularly gets upwards of 34 mpg on the highway).
When all the calculations are done, it costs $170 more - over 10,000 miles - to run the gasser than it does to run the TDI. (And that doesn't include winter driving, which necessitates buying #1 diesel, which is more expensive.)
So... You're going to drive the TDI 100,000 miles just to save the added cost of buying it. And that is a "best case scenario."
I'm all for buying diesel. I've had quite a few of them. But we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that they're some sort of cash cow.
There is no "need" to buy #1 in the winter. Most stations treat the fuel in the (winter blend) winter , and if that isn't enough there are many additives that can be purchased for winter driving. I've had diesels since '01 and never bought #1... and I do a lot of northern winter driving.
Do make owning a diesel worth it , you have to keep it for a LONG time.. not just 100k miles. I plan on selling both of mine once I hit the 250k mark.
There is no "need" to buy #1 in the winter. Most stations treat the fuel in the (winter blend) winter , and if that isn't enough there are many additives that can be purchased for winter driving. I've had diesels since '01 and never bought #1... and I do a lot of northern winter driving.
Do make owning a diesel worth it , you have to keep it for a LONG time.. not just 100k miles. I plan on selling both of mine once I hit the 250k mark.
Maybe not where you live. But in Northern climates, you HAVE TO buy (at least) blended fuel. And even then you better have anti-gel in it. I lived in Minnesota for the better part of 20 years, and if you're foolish enough to have 70/30 or even 50/50 fuel in your car at 30 below zero, you'll pay dearly.
Also, depending on your location, blended diesel runs a good 15-20 cents per gallon more than #2. This means that, in the winter, you're basically not saving any money driving the diesel.
But you're right about driving the vehicles for a LOT of miles. And that is one of the strengths of the diesels. Drive a TDI 250,000 miles, and you're probably going to "net" about $1500-$2000 in fuel savings over the life of the car.
On the other hand, if you're looking for pure overall economy, there are better ways to go.
What if the guy WANTS to buy one of the lower-priced gassers? Or one with a manual transmission (which always gets better mileage)? The bottom line is that if you think you can get "off the lot" with a TDI for only $900 more than a gasser, you're deluded.
Also, you need to do some more research into the $1300 tax CREDIT. That is NOT "cash in the pocket."
Either way, it doesn't matter. You're determined that they're pretty much the same price, even though they're not.
Now let's do some figuring... Locally, today, gas is $2.49 per gallon and diesel is $2.89 per gallon. Let's assume 32 mpg for the manual gasser and 45 mpg on the automatic TDI - both of which are completely realistic (my son has a Jetta with the 5-speed & 2.0 liter, and regularly gets upwards of 34 mpg on the highway).
When all the calculations are done, it costs $170 more - over 10,000 miles - to run the gasser than it does to run the TDI. (And that doesn't include winter driving, which necessitates buying #1 diesel, which is more expensive.) It's probably more accurate to say you're going to save about $150 in gas, over 10,000 miles, driving the TDI.
So... You're going to drive the TDI 100,000 miles just to save the added cost of buying it. And that is a "best case scenario." And even that doesn't take into account the added expense of repairs on a diesel.
I'm all for buying diesel. I've had quite a few of them. But we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that they're some sort of cash cow.
How about I bought a lower priced TDI. Paid $21,009 plus tax. IPOD was standard, 16"rims are perfect and I only buy manual trannys and don't need the sunroof (have a mustang vert for that). The $1300 tax credit is cash in your pocket. The same that my son bought a Civic Hybrid 2 years ago and received $2500 tax credit.
The price of gas down here now is only .10 dif between reg and diesel.
Comparing apples to apples, on carsdirect the diff between a gasser and TDI are $2628, minus the $1300 tax credit on the TDI = $1328 diff. Plus the TDI is a 6 speed compared to the 5 for the gasser and the TDI has something that the gasser doesnt. Electric heaters in the vents. Pretty much instant heat when starting the car.
Maybe not where you live. But in Northern climates, you HAVE TO buy (at least) blended fuel. And even then you better have anti-gel in it. I lived in Minnesota for the better part of 20 years, and if you're foolish enough to have 70/30 or even 50/50 fuel in your car at 30 below zero, you'll pay dearly.
Also, depending on your location, blended diesel runs a good 15-20 cents per gallon more than #2. This means that, in the winter, you're basically not saving any money driving the diesel.
But you're right about driving the vehicles for a LOT of miles. And that is one of the strengths of the diesels. Drive a TDI 250,000 miles, and you're probably going to "net" about $1500-$2000 in fuel savings over the life of the car.
On the other hand, if you're looking for pure overall economy, there are better ways to go.
I live in MI, and am an avid snowmobilier so I'm always in the cold climates in the winter. I usually add some diesel service additive every other tank full. I don't know when the stations here switch to their winter blends (I've only seen one station that actually has #1 & #2 ) but I do notice the mpg difference.
Also I buy used so I don't pay that premium of a new vehicle. I also modd everything I own SO there usually is no savings.
What if the guy WANTS to buy one of the lower-priced gassers? Or one with a manual transmission (which always gets better mileage)? The bottom line is that if you think you can get "off the lot" with a TDI for only $900 more than a gasser, you're deluded.
I'm basing it on the website you provided, O'deluded one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks
Also, you need to do some more research into the $1300 tax CREDIT. That is NOT "cash in the pocket."
Never said it is a, "cash in the pocket", it is a fed tax credit, just as I said, O'deluded one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks
Either way, it doesn't matter. You're determined that they're pretty much the same price, even though they're not.
VW determines the prices not me, O'deluded one.
As for your calculation and fuel prices. Where I live the differences are anywhere from $.10 less for diesel to $.18 more than regular. Right now it's $.10 more.
At the current prices it would take @ 38759 miles to break even, not 100000 miles. O'deluded one.
I never said TDI's were cash cows, they just aren't $5000 more than a gas equivalent. You seem bound and determined to prove yourself right even if you have to fudge the truth to do it.
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