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Old 06-22-2011, 01:07 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,741,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Let's put the school situation in perspective, we are a predominantly suburban county and our test score are worse than BALTIMORE CITY!!! Baltimore is a living cesspool. They have all types of issues up there and it is one of the least desirable places to live. You think kids don't value education down here, there are kids up there wondering if they are even going to survive the next day!
Ok. I understand your overall point, but I don't agree with the way you're saying it. Why not look at WHY Baltimore outranks PG? Let's just look at high schools in PG and Baltimore. When we in PG want to talk about good high schools, we invariably trot out Eleanor Roosevelt. We may mention Bowie High. That's it. In Baltimore, there are at least three good, citywide high schools: Baltimore City College, Western and Polytechnic. There are probably a couple more that are decent if not among the best. That's one high school in PG compared with three in Baltimore. As for elementary and middle schools, there are several that apparently outrank PG's schools, otherwise we wouldn't be at the bottom. Why is that the case?

There are more people in Baltimore than you think who value education and strive to educate their children the best they can. Not all of Baltimore is a cesspool, and while I choose not to live there, it has decent parts. But it is a decent-sized city with all the urban social ills and then some. The issue in PG is that we are supposedly suburban, and we share only some of the same ills, yet we rank lower than Baltimore. We shouldn't even be comparing ourselves to such an urbanized area. But the stats are what they are.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,807,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
If PG was "just a suburb" then I guess it wouldnt rankle as much...but this is supposed to be the most affluent black suburb in the nation...one would hope that a suburb with that title would be doing a WHOLE lot better than having the worst schools in the state, rising crime etc.
You have to understand, as you've pointed out, "affluent" black counties are very few across the country. So by default PG is the leader with an income level that doesn't even rank in the top 10 in Maryland. So the affluent label is somewhat of a misnomer.

Maryland locations by per capita income - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,177 posts, read 39,355,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
Yep, Deasy didn't pull PGCPS up that far. I think the school system needs to change the way it is run, and get rid of the institutionally ingrained way of doing things that has been around forever. How you get rid of such an ingrained culture, I frankly don't know.

I agree with you regarding development too. PG needs to stop building so many durned houses and get some corporate and better economic development going.


Someone said earlier how when Deasy was there (all 2 1/2 years of his stewardship) how PG schools were in the middle of the pack. No, they were number 2-from the bottom, ahead of Baltimore City.

There is something to be said about promoting from within because of continuity. Every Superintendant gets rid of his predecessor's programs to put his own stamp on things. Since 1984 PG has had 9 Superintendants. Just in the time Weast was in Montgomery (12 years) PG had 5. One was totally worthless due to personality (Metts) and one (Hornsby) ended up in prison. Hornsby got rid of a lot of institutional memory in his short time in PG. Those folks are now in Anne Arundel, Montgomery, Fairfax, Baltimore County, Calvert, etc. All successful systems according to the metrics used.

As a note, Hite is Deasy's hand picked successor. Both are graduates of the Gates and Broad Foundations leadership academies, the mission of which is to totally change education in the US. before anyone cheers about that check out what exactly they mean.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Wow. Okay. I guess some people are just spoiled by the standard of living in the DC area. Everything is subjective. For the people who think PG is just God awful, I implore you, visit some of the mid-western cities and suburbs like Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, or in the south like Louisville, Savannah, or any number of the poor cities in the south. Even in the west in states like Arizona. Trust me, my wife and I used to watch the First 48, a crime series on A&E. You think PG is bad? lol
What? I've lived in PG County almost my whole life, I just don't like what I see. And I don't need to visit another place to know how good or bad it is here. If we have the worst school system in the state, that is unacceptable to me. I don't care where we live at, I expect the best or at least the best that is possible and I don't think PG is living up to that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
And hell yes I'm defending my home. No one should feel ashamed of where they live. I'm certainly not. If I live in Georgetown, should I be ashamed because crime occurs in SE - a part of D.C.? Or even Capitol Hill for that matter. Should I be ashamed to live in Bethesda because crime happens in Wheaton - a part of Montgomery County? So why would I feel ashamed of living in Adelphi because crime happens in District Heights or even Langley Park?
It's one thing to be defensive but it's another to be discerning. We don't have to be the best at every thing, but there sure as heck ought to be better than what we're getting. And yes it does matter what happens in Langley Park even though I live in Oxon Hill, you know why? Because people who consider moving here, aren't going to look at just one area, they are going to look at multiple parts of this county if not the whole county and if there is a lot of crime in the county in general, what is going to give them an incentive to move to that county given that they may not know the difference between these areas? All they are going to know is hey PG County is on pace to have 100 homicides, not well Langley Park, Suitland, and Landover has a lot of killings. That's just how news is given. It's no different than any other county, people think MoCo is completely safe everywhere but like you said crime is bad in Wheaton. It's mainly perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
And let's be real, ALL counties and cities have crooked politicians. Some just haven't been caught yet. lol People hear about PG's problems and think crooked politicians is somehow a novelty. Think people were scrambling to get out of Chicago because of Blagojevich?
It goes beyond crooked politicians. We also only have one political group running our county which limit political options and give these leaders a sense of entitlement. Our political circuit should be much more diverse than it is. That has been a huge problem with this county.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
And the schools aren't awful. I think you offend every teacher student and parent when you say that. You should read the article in the other thread about the study done concerning rich kids performing badly. If ONE kid per classroom goes to college, you can't really blame the schools. Blame falls on the parents, community, and school. We are all responsible.
THEY ARE THE WORST SCHOOLS IN THE STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is that not bad????????

I read the article, I do agree with a lot of what was said, but does that mean that we should just accept that we are going to do bad? That doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Go to Detroit, Cleveland, Anderson, IN (personal experience), Philly, Trenton, NJ, or even D.C. You'll see what awful an awful school is. Lastly, I'd like to know where this statistic is that says PG schools are worst than Baltimore. The last statistic I saw concerning test scores, PG did pretty well. Better than D.C. always.
What does that have to do with PG? I don't care what any other area is doing, all that should matter is am I satisfied with PG and the answer is HECK NO!! We pay all these taxes for what? That's what I'm saying. Forget how bad it is anywhere else, are you happy with PG the way it is? I'm not. We should have better schools for the amount of taxes we pay, we should have a better ran police department, we should have a lot of other things. I don't care what Montgomery or Fairfax or DC, I just wonder is this county doing the best it can with what money we pay in taxes and the answer is a big HECK NO!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
It seems to me like you would be better off living in more rural areas. There are ghettos even in Boston, Mass. You're asking an urban area to provide you with a rural country-like environment. Ain't gonna happen. You might get that in Delaware or St. Charles County. Even Fredrick, MD or Hagerstown may be a good choice. Heavily populated urban areas have always been plagued by crime and low performing schools.

People always complain about PG but I think they need to take things into perspective. There are a lot of worse places to be. I'm not saying PG is the best place to live, but it's not the worst. I just think people go to the extreme and make it seem like if you live here, your kids won't go to college, and you'll be robbed, raped, or murdered. That's simply not the case.
I don't need to live in a more rural area, I need to live in a better ran area! I would live in just about any city or suburb as long as it's relatively safe, has good schools and quality of life.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,240,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
Ok. I understand your overall point, but I don't agree with the way you're saying it. Why not look at WHY Baltimore outranks PG? Let's just look at high schools in PG and Baltimore. When we in PG want to talk about good high schools, we invariably trot out Eleanor Roosevelt. We may mention Bowie High. That's it. In Baltimore, there are at least three good, citywide high schools: Baltimore City College, Western and Polytechnic. There are probably a couple more that are decent if not among the best. That's one high school in PG compared with three in Baltimore. As for elementary and middle schools, there are several that apparently outrank PG's schools, otherwise we wouldn't be at the bottom. Why is that the case?

There are more people in Baltimore than you think who value education and strive to educate their children the best they can. Not all of Baltimore is a cesspool, and while I choose not to live there, it has decent parts. But it is a decent-sized city with all the urban social ills and then some. The issue in PG is that we are supposedly suburban, and we share only some of the same ills, yet we rank lower than Baltimore. We shouldn't even be comparing ourselves to such an urbanized area. But the stats are what they are.
I agree B-more is not a complete cesspool, but overall the quality of life there compared to here is less. As far as the high schools are concerned, that has a lot to do with political corruption within our school system. The northern high schools generally get more attention, particularly in areas like Bowie, Greenbelt, and Laurel. If you don't believe me, compare the physical school buildings of Bowie, Roosevelt, and Laurel to Gwynn Park, Friendly, Oxon Hill, and Surrattsville. It's night and day. That is how this county runs. It caters to certain areas and neglects others.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,177 posts, read 39,355,263 times
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Bowie's falling apart, Friendly should be ok but successive Principals neglected preventive maintenance. Roosevelt is going to get the dollars because of the program. Oxon Hill has had a succession of Principals who were jerks to all the staff. Gwynn Park and Surratsville are both in the pipeline for upgrading. Gwynn Park has had recent Principals who also neglected maintenance.

Schools are designed/engineered/built to last about 75 years. If they're maintained properly. I was on a site visit to Carver Performing Arts High School in Baltimore County earlier this year. Base building dates to around 1930. It is still in pretty good shape although the spaces aren't adequate for what it does. A new one is being built. I visited Dundalk High School a couple years ago, circa 1960. It was falling apart.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Someone said earlier how when Deasy was there (all 2 1/2 years of his stewardship) how PG schools were in the middle of the pack. No, they were number 2-from the bottom, ahead of Baltimore City.

There is something to be said about promoting from within because of continuity. Every Superintendant gets rid of his predecessor's programs to put his own stamp on things. Since 1984 PG has had 9 Superintendants. Just in the time Weast was in Montgomery (12 years) PG had 5. One was totally worthless due to personality (Metts) and one (Hornsby) ended up in prison. Hornsby got rid of a lot of institutional memory in his short time in PG. Those folks are now in Anne Arundel, Montgomery, Fairfax, Baltimore County, Calvert, etc. All successful systems according to the metrics used.

As a note, Hite is Deasy's hand picked successor. Both are graduates of the Gates and Broad Foundations leadership academies, the mission of which is to totally change education in the US. before anyone cheers about that check out what exactly they mean.
Okay I may have exaggerated but Deasy success trumps Hite thus far. The schools have dropped since Hite has taken over. Here goes an article that I was referring to about PG when Deasy was here:

Prince George's Students Post Unprecedented Gains on State Assessment Exams

I don't think that it's a coincidence that the achievement was high and then drop off after he left. It's a culture of "brotherism" that is killing the effectiveness of this school system.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,240,565 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Bowie's falling apart, Friendly should be ok but successive Principals neglected preventive maintenance. Roosevelt is going to get the dollars because of the program. Oxon Hill has had a succession of Principals who were jerks to all the staff. Gwynn Park and Surratsville are both in the pipeline for upgrading. Gwynn Park has had recent Principals who also neglected maintenance.

Schools are designed/engineered/built to last about 75 years. If they're maintained properly. I was on a site visit to Carver Performing Arts High School in Baltimore County earlier this year. Base building dates to around 1930. It is still in pretty good shape although the spaces aren't adequate for what it does. A new one is being built. I visited Dundalk High School a couple years ago, circa 1960. It was falling apart.
I'm not talking about how the school are being ran, I'm talking about the physical upkeep of these buildings. Some of these buildings are almost inhabitable. I've been to schools in Landover that have leaks all of the building. I also have mentored at a school in Forestville that has rats running around the building and termites. You would never see these things in "certain" areas. One of my mentees even said he thought the way the building was kept up was a reflection of how they value the students. I concur with him because when I went to Gwynn Park I used to think the school system didn't give a rat's poop about us. It doesn't make sense for some of the issues these buildings have. Yes they are supposed to last 75 years, but if you don't take care of them properly they won't last 10.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,177 posts, read 39,355,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
I'm not talking about how the school are being ran, I'm talking about the physical upkeep of these buildings. Some of these buildings are almost inhabitable. I've been to schools in Landover that have leaks all of the building. I also have mentored at a school in Forestville that has rats running around the building and termites. You would never see these things in "certain" areas. One of my mentees even said he thought the way the building was kept up was a reflection of how they value the students. I concur with him because when I went to Gwynn Park I used to think the school system didn't give a rat's poop about us. It doesn't make sense for some of the issues these buildings have. Yes they are supposed to last 75 years, but if you don't take care of them properly they won't last 10.

And that's what I said. Individual building maintenance is the overall responsibility of the Principal. If he/she doesn't have the Lead Custodian call in the issues that can't be handled by the school based maintenance staff the stuff doesn't get fixed. If parents don't pitch a fit about the conditions a lazy Principal won't get the stuff fixed.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:02 PM
 
429 posts, read 981,455 times
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[quote=meatkins;19697939]I think your assertion is kind of off base. Instead of comparing the income of people, it would make a lot more sense to compare housing cost. Let me give you an example straight from Exit Realty of housing sales in our area as of June 27:


Meatkins, maybe I'm missing your point, but I don't see how it is off base. I accept that housing prices are higher in some other areas, but I don't see how that's relevant. If incomes are similar, people can choose where they want to live. A family earning 100K can choose to pay more to live in Prince William or less in PG. I also pointed out that living in some of the more expensive areas might mean a smaller home or even renting.

I stand by my statement that most people aren't "forced" to live in PG any more than people of similar income levels are "forced" to live anywhere else. I think it is fair to say that many people in PG are choosing things like lower prices, bigger houses, and a shorter commute over better public schools.
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