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Washington, DC suburbs in Maryland Calvert County, Charles County, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County
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Old 10-09-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
41 posts, read 45,217 times
Reputation: 24

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Its so congested down there and EVERYONE drives. There needs to be a light rail line from White Plains/Waldorf to Branch Ave metro station in PG county. SoMd is so disconnected from the rest of the area and it feels real good ol' boy down there....somewhat.

I just don't understand the lack of decent public transportation down there. Its not distance because if that was the case many parts of Montgomery county would be in the same boat.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:16 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,101 posts, read 39,155,933 times
Reputation: 40495
Where would you put it?
The reality is that the residents are opposed to it, the funding isn't there and the lack of ridership for it would make it untenable. The last study done on feasibility was several years ago and the cost then was north of $3 billion. The rights of way aren't there now and would have to be bought, mostly through eminent domain. If the process started today the first shovel full of dirt wouldn't be turned for 15 to 20 years.
And maybe we folks down here don't want to be "connected" to the rest of the area. All growth has brought is higher taxes, more crime (coming down the Robber's Highways of Rtes. 4 and 5) and a general degradation of quality of life. New residents here are agitating to make crabbing illegal because the watermen's boats aren't "pretty" enough.

You're in Greenbelt so why do you care?
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:44 AM
 
200 posts, read 486,476 times
Reputation: 188
Why don't you ask the governor to move the one in Baltimore. Nobody uses it.
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,620,647 times
Reputation: 4504
Regional Rail or Light Rail? I have both plans .....aka the 2040 plans

Regional Rail

Annapolis - Baltimore Camden Yards line - 27 mi
Downstate line via Milford - 120 mi
Baltimore Penn - Fredrick line - 61 mi
Downstate line via Salisbury - 129 mi


Regional Rail connects cities and smaller towns and in growing regions can curve the Population grow. There are 1000s of miles of lightly used ROW in MD that can easily and cheaply be switched to Passenger lines. The 2 planned Downstate lines may be long but are very cheap since there mainly flat and straight. Although the Fredrick line is a long shot , ive been told its better to use I-70 ROW then the lightly used Freight line since it would be very curvy and expensive.

Urban Rail


Purple line (light Rail) - 16 mi
Green line Extension (Subway) - 10 mi
Red Line ( Light Rail ) - 14 mi
Yellow line ( Light Rail ) - 23 mi


Urban Rail spurs dense development and creates jobs viva attracting new businesses to the city. It doesn't really allow crime to flow into the community or neighborhood , most of the time it lowers the crime rate in that area. Would a Criminal committing a crime take a Train to the robbery or or would he use a car? It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. NIMBY's often use that as a block to prevent transit form entering there communities. Unfortnatly Maryland is at the bottom of the Bos-Wash Corridor so your population will only grow and get more dense as the years go on. You can curve the population to within the corridors , but theres not much you can do. Residents aren't opposed to any lines as far as ikno , just a few NIMBY's.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,101 posts, read 39,155,933 times
Reputation: 40495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Regional Rail or Light Rail? I have both plans .....aka the 2040 plans

Regional Rail

Annapolis - Baltimore Camden Yards line - 27 mi
Downstate line via Milford - 120 mi
Baltimore Penn - Fredrick line - 61 mi
Downstate line via Salisbury - 129 mi

Regional Rail connects cities and smaller towns and in growing regions can curve the Population grow. There are 1000s of miles of lightly used ROW in MD that can easily and cheaply be switched to Passenger lines. The 2 planned Downstate lines may be long but are very cheap since there mainly flat and straight. Although the Fredrick line is a long shot , ive been told its better to use I-70 ROW then the lightly used Freight line since it would be very curvy and expensive.

Urban Rail


Purple line (light Rail) - 16 mi
Green line Extension (Subway) - 10 mi
Red Line ( Light Rail ) - 14 mi
Yellow line ( Light Rail ) - 23 mi

Urban Rail spurs dense development and creates jobs viva attracting new businesses to the city. It doesn't really allow crime to flow into the community or neighborhood , most of the time it lowers the crime rate in that area. Would a Criminal committing a crime take a Train to the robbery or or would he use a car? It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. NIMBY's often use that as a block to prevent transit form entering there communities. Unfortnatly Maryland is at the bottom of the Bos-Wash Corridor so your population will only grow and get more dense as the years go on. You can curve the population to within the corridors , but theres not much you can do. Residents aren't opposed to any lines as far as ikno , just a few NIMBY's.
Then you don't know much. The residents in Southern MD are overwhelmingly opposed to light rail/Metro expansion into Southern MD. Besides which, none of the pie in the sky lines you mentioned address where the OP was questioning, which doesn't have the population density necessary to make any form of mass transit viable. Nor does the Frederick line you mentioned. The Brunswick line already runs from there and has dependability issues, although that hasn't stopped exurban expansion into WVA.

Again, one of the reasons people live in SoMD, or on the Eastern Shore for that matter, is to not be "connected" to the rest of the state.

There may be "thousands of miles of lightly used ROW in MD" but the reason for the light use is that the ROW's don't go anywhere. In case you haven't been paying attention to MD the whole push from the State is to direct growth to the urban cores of lower Montgomery and Prince George's Counties along with Baltimore City, not encourage people to move to the more rural areas or Delaware. They got a late start on it but new rules coming out in the next couple years from MD Department of Planning are designed to make it prohibitively expensive to create any more sprawl. Which light rail would exacerbate.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
41 posts, read 45,217 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post

You're in Greenbelt so why do you care?
Because I happen to like Southern Maryland, but because of the traffic I sometimes I don't drive through the bottleneck of Rt. 5.

Calvert County can stay the same as it is, however Waldorf in Charles county continues to grow but doesn't have the infrastructure to support itself. If not a light rail, maybe MARC would help with all the congestion in SoMd or at least a bus route that connects to metro besides commuter buses.
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Old 10-10-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,101 posts, read 39,155,933 times
Reputation: 40495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chester Bennington View Post
Because I happen to like Southern Maryland, but because of the traffic I sometimes I don't drive through the bottleneck of Rt. 5.

Calvert County can stay the same as it is, however Waldorf in Charles county continues to grow but doesn't have the infrastructure to support itself. If not a light rail, maybe MARC would help with all the congestion in SoMd or at least a bus route that connects to metro besides commuter buses.

OK, you ride a bus/light rail/whatever mass transit to Waldorf/La Plata. Then what? How do you get where you're going then? You're not, in the foreseeable future, going to have a transit system anywhere in Southern MD that mirrors the Metro system.

As far as growth goes, all three Counties are bumping up against growth limits, Calvert's are self imposed as buildout numbers while Charles County's have to do with water supply, they're running out of aquifer. Which is something that is now hitting St. Mary's, also, along with southern Calvert. St. Mary's also has an active growth management plan that directs growth to Leonardtown and Lexington Park, where there is sewer and water available. The majority of all three Counties are on private well/septic. Which is what the new State rules are going to discourage in a big way. The controls that will be imposed are unimaginable to most people.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:20 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,620,647 times
Reputation: 4504
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Then you don't know much. The residents in Southern MD are overwhelmingly opposed to light rail/Metro expansion into Southern MD. Besides which, none of the pie in the sky lines you mentioned address where the OP was questioning, which doesn't have the population density necessary to make any form of mass transit viable. Nor does the Frederick line you mentioned. The Brunswick line already runs from there and has dependability issues, although that hasn't stopped exurban expansion into WVA.

Again, one of the reasons people live in SoMD, or on the Eastern Shore for that matter, is to not be "connected" to the rest of the state.

There may be "thousands of miles of lightly used ROW in MD" but the reason for the light use is that the ROW's don't go anywhere. In case you haven't been paying attention to MD the whole push from the State is to direct growth to the urban cores of lower Montgomery and Prince George's Counties along with Baltimore City, not encourage people to move to the more rural areas or Delaware. They got a late start on it but new rules coming out in the next couple years from MD Department of Planning are designed to make it prohibitively expensive to create any more sprawl. Which light rail would exacerbate.
Oh , well Maryland is still a foreign state to me , ive only been to the Major towns and Cities..... Where exactly is southern MD? You mean near the Chesapeake / Potomac? As for the Eastern Shore , the 2 Downstate lines will mostly serve Delaware , but Maryland has decided to have the lines extended down in. To Ocean city and Salisbury , there gaining popularity in Delaware. Since they would relive the growing traffic problems i don't see what the issue would be. Alot of lines do go places but are owned by freight. But Freight companies are starting to give up ROW due to the fact theres no business along those lines anymore and upkeep costs are getting high. So MARC or other agencies buy up the lines and use them for Passenger service or other things like Light Rail or Metro Rail. Regional Rail doesn't need dense areas , its used to connect towns and cities to each other. Light Rail causes Dense development not sprawly development , all Rail causes dense Development , usually within a 5 block radius of the station. I know alot about Rail and Developments across the Northeast and Mid Atlantic Region. I have all the plans and double check with Engineers and insiders in each state.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,101 posts, read 39,155,933 times
Reputation: 40495
Southern MD is generally considered to be the Counties of Calvert, Charles and St. Mary's, bounded on the east by Chesapeake Bay and on the west by the Potomac River. It is bisected by the Patuxent River. Some, and I'm one of them, will also include the southern sections of Prince George's and Anne Arundel Counties in Southern MD.

All of the areas are primarily rural/suburban (depends on where you are) with the main industries being PAX River NAS in St. Mary's and the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant in Calvert. Farming and working the water still play a major part throughout the region. Many people are employed by the various governments, especially Federal. A number: 65% of employed Calvert County residents commute outside the County for work. The Charles and Anne Arundel numbers are similar. As are the numbers for Prince George's County. The general work force is made up of blue collar trades (Calvert has a lot of high level Civil Service employees, as does Charles, but not so many). The main jobs driver in St. Mary's is Pax River, which is the Navy's test pilot station.

If you want to loosen the sphincters of elected officials in the area mention that PAX River may be BRACed out of existence.

As far as an Ocean City line goes, State planners have been pushing that for years and have gotten exactly nowhere. Our culture generally in the US doesn't have you riding to the Beach for vacation anymore. The car killed the train to where I live in the 1930s (along with the Great Depression). We run a trolley in the summer, rides are a quarter, that goes through the area and it's basically a drunk bus for bar crawls.
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Old 10-10-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: 5 years in Southern Maryland, USA
791 posts, read 2,382,146 times
Reputation: 425
Urban Rail spurs dense development and creates jobs viva attracting new businesses to the city. It doesn't really allow crime to flow into the community or neighborhood , most of the time it lowers the crime rate in that area. Would a Criminal committing a crime take a Train to the robbery or or would he use a car? It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Correct. As an example, look at Pentagon City Mall, Friendship Heights, and Ballston Commons Mall. They're just a few minutes from from D.C. by metrorail - but has this brought crime to those places? Not the least bit, that I've ever heard of.

I have to laugh at the paranoid people who keep claiming on the "Life in Southern Maryland" website forum, that thugs from D.C. ride the MD MTA commuter busses to Waldorf to commit crime. Riiiight. If these ignorant people would ever once look at who's on the MD MTA busses, they would see for themselves that it's 100% white-collar commuter types.

Last edited by slowlane; 10-10-2010 at 07:31 PM..
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