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I think NH tried to hard to bring Rodeo Drive to Maryland. And, I'm not downing PG county or southern MD. The DC area is a relatively conservative place when it comes to their finances. We like looking fly, but not exotic and not for the prices their stores are pitching. This includes NoVA. People are down their enjoying themselves, but the bottom line is money...And, not unless they are profit sharing the parking money, then the only retail stores (restaurants not included in retail), then the only store making money is probably Charming Charlies.
I disagree. NH did not try to bring Rodeo Drive. One or two seemingly out of place high end shops doesn't speak to any goal of NH to become like Chevy Chase. There are no Tiffanys, Jimmy Choo's, Versace, Gucci, Rolex, Burberry, etc. in National Harbor (though they may open outlets at Tanger). My goodness. lol PEople must not get out much. What's at NH is by no means high end. NH is upscale. Not high end. There's a difference. And the local economy can perfectly support upscale retail. Compare National Harbor to Downtown Silver Spring. Silver Spring is not upscale. It has your average food chains and stores. Better than the Mall at Prince Georges, but certainly not upscale. Mazza Gallery and Tyson's Galleria is high end.
And speaking of NoVa. How can you account for Tyson's Galleria? Crystal City?
And one thing that people continue to overlook about NH is that it's intention is not to be a local strip mall or watering hole. Gaylord is there for a reason. To draw out of state/region money. There may be travelers with the finances to shop at those seemingly out of place high end shops. I always wondered why they sold expensive jewelry and paintings on cruise ships. Who spends thousands of dollars to go shopping on vacation? Apparently people do. So, why not spend it at NH if they are staying at a hotel there? I think people get too wrapped up in thinking NH is just for the locals. It's something more than that. If it was just for the locals, there would be no Wyndham vacation resorts, Gaylord, or any other hotel. There would just be shops and restaurants. That's the same vision MGM has. The casino won't be just for locals, but for visitors from around the world.
I disagree. NH did not try to bring Rodeo Drive. One or two seemingly out of place high end shops doesn't speak to any goal of NH to become like Chevy Chase. There are no Tiffanys, Jimmy Choo's, Versace, Gucci, Rolex, Burberry, etc. in National Harbor (though they may open outlets at Tanger). My goodness. lol PEople must not get out much. What's at NH is by no means high end. NH is upscale. Not high end. There's a difference. And the local economy can perfectly support upscale retail. Compare National Harbor to Downtown Silver Spring. Silver Spring is not upscale. It has your average food chains and stores. Better than the Mall at Prince Georges, but certainly not upscale. Mazza Gallery and Tyson's Galleria is high end.
And speaking of NoVa. How can you account for Tyson's Galleria? Crystal City?
And one thing that people continue to overlook about NH is that it's intention is not to be a local strip mall or watering hole. Gaylord is there for a reason. To draw out of state/region money. There may be travelers with the finances to shop at those seemingly out of place high end shops. I always wondered why they sold expensive jewelry and paintings on cruise ships. Who spends thousands of dollars to go shopping on vacation? Apparently people do. So, why not spend it at NH if they are staying at a hotel there? I think people get too wrapped up in thinking NH is just for the locals. It's something more than that. If it was just for the locals, there would be no Wyndham vacation resorts, Gaylord, or any other hotel. There would just be shops and restaurants. That's the same vision MGM has. The casino won't be just for locals, but for visitors from around the world.
True! And yes, PG most certainly does have a segment of the population that is high-end. Who do you think is living in gated Woodmore and other affluent areas of the county? Tell me they don't want (or can't afford) Rodeo Drive? Yes, there are people in PG who like looking exotic, expensive, well-heeled, etc. and will pay to do so (um, isn't such materialism part of the problem we have discussed on this forum in the past?). Perhaps they didn't want to spend their money at NH -- not enough draw, no high-end.
Now, did NH try to be too siddity for the hoi poloi? No, I think NH just tried to do something different, and the please-god-send-us-yet-another-sneaker-store set thought NH was being siddity.
This may be true, but I am simply pointing out that NH "appears" to be changing their tune on what stores are coming down there. I think that is, also, why it is called Sports Zone Elite so that it appears to differentiate the brand from the regular sports zones.
Rule of business is that you have to cater to demographics. I understand what you are saying, "be a meaningful specific and not an eclectic village of varying brands", right? I agree. But, (I hate cliches) "at the end of the day" it is about profit and loss. Young people will spend money moreso than older folks when it comes to shopping. You attract young people and women and everything else follows. If you create a development and have a bunch of stores that are "Cocoa Blanca" and these fluffy-bourgeois stores, your mall will be closed. If it's not cool, everybody's gonna know about it (yelp, facebook, twitter, etc.) and nobody's gonna visit it. That's why you see presidents going out of their way to play saxaphones on Arsenio, shoot guns, kill a deer/bear, dance like fools on Ellen and talk about hip music they listen to and align themselves with "cool" and "beautiful" people because the public is swayed by this type of stuff.
There's nothing wrong with having independent stores, but they need to anchor it with some type of brand-recognizable stores that aren't cheap, but that cater to middle-class people. Once that is done, then other, complimentary brands will be attracted to NH. You can almost be certain if an H&M or Victoria's secret came to NH, an Ann Taylor or some other nice woman's store will want to be there, too, because the brands compliment one another and brand success begets brand success, etc. Then, some nice lady's shoe store will pop in as well. I don't see one sports zone breaking the place because you can't have a bunch of the same people (one demographic) shopping in the same place.
Also, the wildcard in this equation will be Tanger. I guarantee you that Tanger - with price friendly goods and recognizable brands - is going to crush the business of the stores at NH.
I agree there is nothing wrong with adding a store like that here and there, but I feel as though, they take it too far in other parts of the county. Some of these places began to lose their identity and then they go down hill.
True! And yes, PG most certainly does have a segment of the population that is high-end. Who do you think is living in gated Woodmore and other affluent areas of the county? Tell me they don't want (or can't afford) Rodeo Drive? Yes, there are people in PG who like looking exotic, expensive, well-heeled, etc. and will pay to do so (um, isn't such materialism part of the problem we have discussed on this forum in the past?). Perhaps they didn't want to spend their money at NH -- not enough draw, no high-end.
Now, did NH try to be too siddity for the hoi poloi? No, I think NH just tried to do something different, and the please-god-send-us-yet-another-sneaker-store set thought NH was being siddity.
agree a hundred times over. I have also found that, although PG residents want/demand high-end and ultra high-end retail, they broadly believe that such options would fail more due to the impact of crime than lack of patronage. That a portion of the population would ruin it and we don't have the infrastructure in place to mitigate those types of issues. Its like the county suffers from a Carter G. Woodson Complex and doesn't know how to move forward.
Bringing it back to NH. This property represents the direction that the county needs to go in terms of safety and policing when developing these types of properties. Most know that they have the NH locked down like Fort Knox and that, although all are welcomed, the behavior seen at other retail venues. I think that when the U.S. begins to prosper again, Tanger comes online, and other projects come online you will more high end (possibly ultra high end) come to NH. As a waterfront property that will have competition coming online over the next 6 years (the Wharf and Alexandria Waterfront), I don't see it deteriorating but improving over the next 10 years.
agree a hundred times over. I have also found that, although PG residents want/demand high-end and ultra high-end retail, they broadly believe that such options would fail more due to the impact of crime than lack of patronage. That a portion of the population would ruin it and we don't have the infrastructure in place to mitigate those types of issues. Its like the county suffers from a Carter G. Woodson Complex and doesn't know how to move forward.
I wholeheartedly agree. I was actually going to start a separate thread asking why the African American population here is so concerned with negative behaviors of other African Americans around nice areas. Who seem to throw up their hands and expect the place to fail because of the lack of self control usually from ill-parented teens. The number one issue with wayward teens is that they have nothing constructive to do at home or outside. Playing a pick up game of tag football, soccer, basketball, or anything outside sport has become passe. In addition, there are a lack of boundaries when it comes to teens being out at night and in the afternoon in places designated for adults. Get control of the teens and adolescents and that solves about 99% of the problem right there.
The home game system killed the local arcades. If kids weren't outside playing sports, they were at the mall usually in one location, the arcade. They weren't sitting on benches in front of stores cussing and roughhousing. Or loitering outside in front of the entrance doing the same thing. When did malls take the place of community centers and parks? Especially since most of the kids don't have the money to buy anything anyway. The $13M sports and learning complex in Ft. Washington that just opened should be replicated in just about every neighborhood. The local community centers should all be updated to that level to draw in teens that have all of a sudden become bored with constructive activities. Today's teens are less active and less engaged in learning. That trend has to be reversed. It starts with the parents.
If we can get a handle on the teens with nothing to do but terrorize the rest of us, that goes a long way to protecting the nice places we get.
Also, the wildcard in this equation will be Tanger. I guarantee you that Tanger - with price friendly goods and recognizable brands - is going to crush the business of the stores at NH.
I have wanted someone to bring this topic up as it fits this discussion perfectly. NH is supposed to be upscale - what clientele does outlet malls attract? People looking for bargains on goods they pay more for at big name stores. You can hit them up on the eastern shore, down in Dale City or any variety of places but it isn't going to be the Neiman-Marcus crowd glomming on the place like carrion if/when it ever happens. It's going to be like every other outlet center and NH better be able to cater to those crowds with amenities that suit them as well. Those people are out to spend money and will drop a few bucks for a meal or two while there.
The number one issue with wayward teens is that they have nothing constructive to do at home or outside. Playing a pick up game of tag football, soccer, basketball, or anything outside sport has become passe. In addition, there are a lack of boundaries when it comes to teens being out at night and in the afternoon in places designated for adults. Get control of the teens and adolescents and that solves about 99% of the problem right there.
The home game system killed the local arcades. If kids weren't outside playing sports, they were at the mall usually in one location, the arcade. They weren't sitting on benches in front of stores cussing and roughhousing. Or loitering outside in front of the entrance doing the same thing. When did malls take the place of community centers and parks? Especially since most of the kids don't have the money to buy anything anyway. The $13M sports and learning complex in Ft. Washington that just opened should be replicated in just about every neighborhood. The local community centers should all be updated to that level to draw in teens that have all of a sudden become bored with constructive activities. Today's teens are less active and less engaged in learning. That trend has to be reversed. It starts with the parents.
If we can get a handle on the teens with nothing to do but terrorize the rest of us, that goes a long way to protecting the nice places we get.
Wow, how did I survive my childhood without a $13M community center in every town/city I lived in as a military brat?
You can't be serious in suggesting every neighborhood replicates one of these complexes for bored kids. The problems stem back to parents and how they raise their children. Kids aren't challenged by life any longer and that challenge starts at home. Chores were an important part of life when I was a kid. There were 5 of us and we had to pitch in to make the household run. We had little time or money to worry about hanging out at a mall, much less concerned about pushing quarters into a machine to play games. We were more concerned with keeping our bike tires and footballs inflated. Today's youths are mostly spoiled as they are given everything. They also have little responsibilities around the home unless parents instill it into them. I see too many of my neighbors pushing mowers around their yards while their able bodied kids are indoors watching TV. I pulled the plugs on mine on occasions and never regretted it. They have to learn some how and if you aren't proactive you aren't active.
I can't paint this with a broad brush as not every kid is of the hooligans we see hanging out in public places on a regular basis. Lots of kids have good parents who raise their kids right; they are still spoiled from just a couple of generations ago but not all are bad apples.
I see it as a downfall of our society.
I have wanted someone to bring this topic up as it fits this discussion perfectly. NH is supposed to be upscale - what clientele does outlet malls attract? People looking for bargains on goods they pay more for at big name stores. You can hit them up on the eastern shore, down in Dale City or any variety of places but it isn't going to be the Neiman-Marcus crowd glomming on the place like carrion if/when it ever happens. It's going to be like every other outlet center and NH better be able to cater to those crowds with amenities that suit them as well. Those people are out to spend money and will drop a few bucks for a meal or two while there.
I disagree. You presume to know the income level or wealth of those that shop at outlets? And how many shoppers do you know would rather pay full retail on something they can get for 20% off? Wealthy people didn't become wealthy by wasting money. Outside of those who were born into wealth or just has to have the latest thing, about 99% of shoppers look for bargains. So, when you suggest a certain clientele shops at outlets stores, you are talking about a very wide range of shoppers from low-income to the wealthy. If I started making $250k/year, I'm not going to all of a sudden avoid outlet malls because I can afford the retail price. There's a saying, "Only suckers pay retail."
Wow, how did I survive my childhood without a $13M community center in every town/city I lived in as a military brat?
You can't be serious in suggesting every neighborhood replicates one of these complexes for bored kids.
And why not? Are our kids not worth the investment? Why can't that be the goal of a county to provide viable after-school centers throughout the county? If it was up for a vote, would you vote no?
Quote:
The problems stem back to parents and how they raise their children. Kids aren't challenged by life any longer and that challenge starts at home. Chores were an important part of life when I was a kid. There were 5 of us and we had to pitch in to make the household run. We had little time or money to worry about hanging out at a mall, much less concerned about pushing quarters into a machine to play games. We were more concerned with keeping our bike tires and footballs inflated. Today's youths are mostly spoiled as they are given everything. They also have little responsibilities around the home unless parents instill it into them. I see too many of my neighbors pushing mowers around their yards while their able bodied kids are indoors watching TV. I pulled the plugs on mine on occasions and never regretted it. They have to learn some how and if you aren't proactive you aren't active.
I can't paint this with a broad brush as not every kid is of the hooligans we see hanging out in public places on a regular basis. Lots of kids have good parents who raise their kids right; they are still spoiled from just a couple of generations ago but not all are bad apples.
I see it as a downfall of our society.
I pretty much agree with everything you said here.
I disagree. You presume to know the income level or wealth of those that shop at outlets? And how many shoppers do you know would rather pay full retail on something they can get for 20% off? Wealthy people didn't become wealthy by wasting money. Outside of those who were born into wealth or just has to have the latest thing, about 99% of shoppers look for bargains. So, when you suggest a certain clientele shops at outlets stores, you are talking about a very wide range of shoppers from low-income to the wealthy. If I started making $250k/year, I'm not going to all of a sudden avoid outlet malls because I can afford the retail price. There's a saying, "Only suckers pay retail."
I agree with you. A lot of times the wealthy are wealthy because of the fact that they won't spend money on frivolous things. Even with all things considered, the name brands that they may bring certainly would not be typical brands you would find at a middle-class mall. The name 'outlet' has a bad connotation these days, but it's becoming more and more the way to shop. Potomac Mills has even noticed this and has really added some nicer elements to their mall down there to cater to a higher-income demographic.
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