So Maryland wants to raise gas taxes 15 cents a gallon! (Frederick: house, employment)
Washington, DC suburbs in MarylandCalvert County, Charles County, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County
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Why would the state make policies to accommodate the few thousand people that live in Western Maryland. Cigarettes need to be taxed. Stop buying them if people don't like it. Our cancer problem in this country is already bad enough. You guys bring in so little taxes that you don't really send any taxes to us because your entire tax revenue doesn't even cover your county. We pay the difference. Cleveland, Pittsburg, and Detroit reinvented themselves. It's time for western Maryland to do the same. Industrial days are over in this country. You can build and grow all you want as long as its infill development using existing infrastructure. Stop trying to build new developments that require new roads and densify what you already have. That is what "Plan Maryland" is about. You can accommodate new residents in Cumberland in dense redevelopment.
I don't buy cigarettes. Those in my county that due just go to WV to buy them where they are much cheaper. That hurts our local businesses in Western Maryland.
Western Maryland would love to reinvent ourselves. Your part of the state did a heck of a lot of "reinventing" over the last 60 years by building out new developments, new housing, new roads, to accomidate commuters. We didn't have that luxury. We are left with infrastructure from the 1940s or before that is over 70 mountainous miles from the nearest employment center.
In-filling Cumberland or Frostburg, or our old mining towns does nothing to help us be part of the 21st century as our communities no longer have an internal engine of employment. We need to be able to build housing in places where the demand is....which is places that are commutable to Hagerstown and Winchester.
Is is easy to understand.....our county is 75% forest! We have lost over 20,000 residents in the last 60 years. We NEED GROWTH. We need it in places where people in the 21st century want to live. Not everyone wants to rehab a late 19th century Victorian on a 3,000 sq. ft. lot. Forcing our county to retain and attract 21st century people with 19th and early 20th century infrastructure, that is 70 rugged miles from any city of similar size, is dooming us to failure and thus more subsidies from downstate, which we both agree is not a good situation.
That's all? I'm surprised it isn't 200,000.
coal mine, moonshine, or move it on down the line
OK... what are some examples of what that might be?
Our population peaked right around the end of WWII at about 90,000 residents. Our 2010 census total is about 72,000, but that includes about 5,000 prisoners in the state and federal pens.
The Terrapin Run proposal is what immediately comes to mind. The developer wanted to put a dense housing development in Eastern Allegany County, less than a hours drive from Hagerstown. The state fought tooth and nail to stop it, even to the point of passing a law after they lost in the Court of Appeals. "PlanMaryland" is almost a direct response to this project. The government wants to take control of zoning away from the counties (where the power had resided since the beginning of zoning) and place more power in the hands of the state.
Now sadly, Terrapin Run as a project was stalled by the state bureacracy (that was subject to a law suit that was recently dropped.) Ultimately the tanking of the real estate market made the plan no longer viable.
Looking forward, the Eastern part of the county is where growth can occur in the future. Smart Growth, PlanMaryland, etc. is going to make this very unlikely as without cooperation from the state, the developers will just go north or south into WV and PA (like they already do) rather than into Allegany County.
Our geography already puts us at a disadvantage when it comes to this, but the state stonewalling permits and not freeing up money, like they will for all of the growth projects in the inner burbs, makes it nearly impossible.
...end of WWII at about 90,000 residents... 2010 census total is about 72,000
All cities peaked during WW2 it seems.
Baltimore was over 900,000 then (war workers)
went down to the mid 500's; up a bit to about 620,000 now.
Quote:
The Terrapin Run proposal is what immediately comes to mind. The developer wanted to put a dense housing development in Eastern Allegany County, less than a hours drive from Hagerstown.
An hour commute is something you endure not something you plan for.
Is there a need for housing in Eastern Allegheny?
Maybe a high concentration of jobs that folks are now commuting to?
Quote:
Looking forward, the Eastern part of the county is where growth can occur in the future.
All cities peaked during WW2 it seems.
Baltimore was over 900,000 then (war workers)
went down to the mid 500's; up a bit to about 620,000 now.
An hour commute is something you endure not something you plan for.
Is there a need for housing in Eastern Allegheny?
Maybe a high concentration of jobs that folks are now commuting to?
:sigh:
Not to nitpick, but it is "Allegany" County, Maryland. "Allegheny" is the spelling for the mountains and the county that Pittsburgh is located in.
Cumberland is a rust belt city, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Johnstown, and many other cities share that common trait. Cumberland's industrial power was largely tied to the proximity of raw materials and rail service. Our position in this regard is not unique for the US as a whole.
But in Maryland, only Cumberland and Baltimore cities haven't been able to stop the bleeding and diversify their economies. I think the reasons for the two cities are different. Baltimore suffers from social ills and has had its share of race problems, but "Baltimore" is still growing, the growth is just in the suburbs.
Cumberland is largely isolated now that rail isn't as important as a means of transporting goods or people. And our population decline is real, not just people moving 5 miles past the city line to the 'burbs. The interstates arrived too late to save most of our industry, and again, the business climate of the state caused many business, like our Kelly Springfield Tire plant to move to more business friendly Southern states.
Eastern Allegany is a growing area. It is still very rural, but none the less, the population is growing as opposed to shrinking, which is a small positive in a sea of negative growth. Most of the growth there are long distance commuters to Hagerstown and Winchester.
Allegany County isn't a commuter county. Most of our residents work locally, almost by necessity, because as you point out, an hour + drive is not something you do except under duress or if you really want to live in a certain place. I know many Cumberland residents that do drive over an hour one way to work because they want to stay in the area and hope to eventually have a local job.
Right now, the housing market pretty much dictates that there isn't demand in Allegany County anywhere. The plan with Terrapin Run was that the houses would be cheap compared to places in Washington County, and that the natural beauty of the area would attract people who wouldn't mind an extra 1/2 hour or so a day on the road to live here as opposed to say, Chambersburg or Martinsburg.
Long term, the hope was to get some real infrastructure, like sewer, and water lines built in that part of the county to support businesses. Right now, you couldn't build a McDonalds on those exits off of I-68 between Hancock and Flintstone because there isn't water or sewer.
Thinking even longer term, having more middle class "modern" housing would help employers choose Cumberland. Those same houses that start as housing for 1 hour commuters to Hagerstown, could become 20 minute commuters to Cumberland if the jobs were here.
We are really held back by lack of middle/upper class housing. We have plenty of "affordable" housing, but any company that came to town with 200 or so management type employees wouldn't be able to find housing that fit their "needs." Again, old houses in an old town are a good fit for some people, but sadly not most in this day and age.
I hope this illustrates the differences between our communities. Smart Growth doesn't work where there hasn't been any growth in the last 60 years. Maryland is very diverse state, and any "one size fits all" policy on growth and zoning will fail to meet the needs of all of the state's citizens. The gas taxes, cig taxes, alcohol taxes are all annoying to us because it just drives business over our borders, but the big picture is that the state from Glendening to present hasn't promoted policies that recognize our state is "America in Minature." The needs of the "minority" should never be trampled on by the will of the "majority." Especially when the rationale for such actions is either lack of knowlege about our community, or the idea that downstate is a place for people and Western Maryland is a place for trees. People live out here too, and have so for a very long time.
Our population peaked right around the end of WWII at about 90,000 residents. Our 2010 census total is about 72,000, but that includes about 5,000 prisoners in the state and federal pens.
The Terrapin Run proposal is what immediately comes to mind. The developer wanted to put a dense housing development in Eastern Allegany County, less than a hours drive from Hagerstown. The state fought tooth and nail to stop it, even to the point of passing a law after they lost in the Court of Appeals. "PlanMaryland" is almost a direct response to this project. The government wants to take control of zoning away from the counties (where the power had resided since the beginning of zoning) and place more power in the hands of the state.
Now sadly, Terrapin Run as a project was stalled by the state bureacracy (that was subject to a law suit that was recently dropped.) Ultimately the tanking of the real estate market made the plan no longer viable.
Looking forward, the Eastern part of the county is where growth can occur in the future. Smart Growth, PlanMaryland, etc. is going to make this very unlikely as without cooperation from the state, the developers will just go north or south into WV and PA (like they already do) rather than into Allegany County.
Our geography already puts us at a disadvantage when it comes to this, but the state stonewalling permits and not freeing up money, like they will for all of the growth projects in the inner burbs, makes it nearly impossible.
You should be thankful. Half of the state is a mess because of poorly located development. You build where the population exist, not the other way around. It makes no sense to build in the middle of nowhere isolated from everything.
You should be thankful. Half of the state is a mess because of poorly located development. You build where the population exist, not the other way around. It makes no sense to build in the middle of nowhere isolated from everything.
I have no desire for Western Maryland to emulate the sprawl of downstate Maryland. But realistically we need to put some butts in the seats, as the sayng goes. I wish people wanted to move to old towns.....most don't. They want new spec housing with a bathroom for each family member, a 2 car garage, and an HOA to keep the neighbors in line.
There is sadly a point at which I realized if our county is ever to be anything other than poor and declining, we need to build the type of housing that middle/upper class people want to buy, which is isolated from the problems of the inner cities (yes, Cumberland has bad parts of town too) and with modern emenities.
I would like to think we could find a happy medium between the two extremes.
Not to nitpick, but it is "Allegany" County, Maryland. "Allegheny" is the spelling for the mountains and the county that Pittsburgh is located in.
Cumberland is a rust belt city, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Johnstown, and many other cities share that common trait. Cumberland's industrial power was largely tied to the proximity of raw materials and rail service. Our position in this regard is not unique for the US as a whole.
But in Maryland, only Cumberland and Baltimore cities haven't been able to stop the bleeding and diversify their economies. I think the reasons for the two cities are different. Baltimore suffers from social ills and has had its share of race problems, but "Baltimore" is still growing, the growth is just in the suburbs.
Cumberland is largely isolated now that rail isn't as important as a means of transporting goods or people. And our population decline is real, not just people moving 5 miles past the city line to the 'burbs. The interstates arrived too late to save most of our industry, and again, the business climate of the state caused many business, like our Kelly Springfield Tire plant to move to more business friendly Southern states.
Eastern Allegany is a growing area. It is still very rural, but none the less, the population is growing as opposed to shrinking, which is a small positive in a sea of negative growth. Most of the growth there are long distance commuters to Hagerstown and Winchester.
Allegany County isn't a commuter county. Most of our residents work locally, almost by necessity, because as you point out, an hour + drive is not something you do except under duress or if you really want to live in a certain place. I know many Cumberland residents that do drive over an hour one way to work because they want to stay in the area and hope to eventually have a local job.
Right now, the housing market pretty much dictates that there isn't demand in Allegany County anywhere. The plan with Terrapin Run was that the houses would be cheap compared to places in Washington County, and that the natural beauty of the area would attract people who wouldn't mind an extra 1/2 hour or so a day on the road to live here as opposed to say, Chambersburg or Martinsburg.
Long term, the hope was to get some real infrastructure, like sewer, and water lines built in that part of the county to support businesses. Right now, you couldn't build a McDonalds on those exits off of I-68 between Hancock and Flintstone because there isn't water or sewer.
Thinking even longer term, having more middle class "modern" housing would help employers choose Cumberland. Those same houses that start as housing for 1 hour commuters to Hagerstown, could become 20 minute commuters to Cumberland if the jobs were here.
We are really held back by lack of middle/upper class housing. We have plenty of "affordable" housing, but any company that came to town with 200 or so management type employees wouldn't be able to find housing that fit their "needs." Again, old houses in an old town are a good fit for some people, but sadly not most in this day and age.
I hope this illustrates the differences between our communities. Smart Growth doesn't work where there hasn't been any growth in the last 60 years. Maryland is very diverse state, and any "one size fits all" policy on growth and zoning will fail to meet the needs of all of the state's citizens. The gas taxes, cig taxes, alcohol taxes are all annoying to us because it just drives business over our borders, but the big picture is that the state from Glendening to present hasn't promoted policies that recognize our state is "America in Minature." The needs of the "minority" should never be trampled on by the will of the "majority." Especially when the rationale for such actions is either lack of knowlege about our community, or the idea that downstate is a place for people and Western Maryland is a place for trees. People live out here too, and have so for a very long time.
I know all about the Terrapin Run case. I studied it in school for my masters in urban planning. The problem with Terrapin Run is the issue of who is paying for the infrastructure needed. She wanted to put that development in the middle of no where far from any other development. Then she wanted the state to pay for the infrastructure needed. Our goal is to stop sprawl. Allowing Allegany county to build in forested area's adds more sprawl. Allegany county doesn't need to grow. It just focuses more people away from the city center causing more problems.
The policies of the past in this country are the reason states are broke now. The automobile has put this country into bankruptcy. Businesses locating far from city centers causing more pollution, traffic congestion, and the clearing of forests by subsidizing roads and development way out in the country. Now states can't afford to keep up with the infrastructure for all the low intensity land development around the country. Every single city nationwide is trying to densify and curve sprawl now. It's unsustainable and our country is suffering because of it.
Rate of development outpaced growth between 1973 and 2010
-developed land increased 154%
-population grew by 39%
-More than 1 million acres of agricultural and forest lands developed since 1973
With Plan Maryland by 2030:
-State of Maryland will save $29 billion dollars in new road construction costs (on average 1.5 billion per year in saving)
-Save $383 million in road maintenance costs
-Save $406 million in water/sewer and school construction costs
Plan Maryland is not taking away zoning rights or development rights from the county. The state just isn't going to pay for new infrastructure in rural area's anymore. If Allegany County can get the money together to build your own new roads and new sewer lines instead of asking Montgomery County to build them for you, go right ahead. The county is free to do what they want with their own money that is. http://plan.maryland.gov/PDF/IsItNee...o_20110816.pdf
But realistically we need to put some butts in the seats, as the sayng goes.... we need to build the type of housing that middle/upper class people want to buy...
Frankly, I think you're approaching it from the wrong end.
You don't want 10's of thousands of new residents.
You want ten, twenty or maybe a hundred new residents at most...
but these need to be the people who will start up some businesses.
Some ways to better and fully employ the people who are already there...
and are already relatively satisfied with those older homes available in the places they are used to seeing them.
Not the shale drillers though. Please.
Wish I had a specific suggestion... but I don't.
I have no desire for Western Maryland to emulate the sprawl of downstate Maryland. But realistically we need to put some butts in the seats, as the sayng goes. I wish people wanted to move to old towns.....most don't. They want new spec housing with a bathroom for each family member, a 2 car garage, and an HOA to keep the neighbors in line.
There is sadly a point at which I realized if our county is ever to be anything other than poor and declining, we need to build the type of housing that middle/upper class people want to buy, which is isolated from the problems of the inner cities (yes, Cumberland has bad parts of town too) and with modern emenities.
I would like to think we could find a happy medium between the two extremes.
The people with the 2 car garage houses are the same people stuck in traffic. You build in existing towns where the population exist, not 20 miles away. There's no logic in trying to build a new town when an older one need attention. You build those houses, then money need to be spent on new utilities and infrastructure where it could go into existing towns and you'll see an increase in traffic as more developers will want to build more taking away the natural beauty you enjoy. Building away from cities and the majority population is the main cause of sprawl.
Back in 2005, Hagerstown reused an abandon hotel for a UMD campus and as a result, new shops and restaurants open up revitalizing the area.
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