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Old 12-25-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: The better side of the Mason-Dixon Line
3,736 posts, read 5,227,914 times
Reputation: 1581
See if most people wanted urban living, than there wouldn't be a need for PlanMaryland because the market would already direct growth into existing urban areas. Yet more and more people move to Carroll and Harford Counties every year. More and more people commute across the Bay from Kent Island and other parts of Queen Annes County to Annapolis, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C. Frederick County is still growing.

Also if you add population to the existing areas, you would still need new schools, fire departments, etc so its really the same.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:31 AM
 
4,768 posts, read 1,572,443 times
Reputation: 1236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
See if most people wanted urban living, than there wouldn't be a need for PlanMaryland because the market would already direct growth into existing urban areas. Yet more and more people move to Carroll and Harford Counties every year. More and more people commute across the Bay from Kent Island and other parts of Queen Annes County to Annapolis, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C. Frederick County is still growing.

Also if you add population to the existing areas, you would still need new schools, fire departments, etc so its really the same.
Yes, it is called market failure. Another word is tragedy of the commons. This "lets let the market determine everything," is a recipe for disaster. At some point you would have really big mess, especially traffic, and everyone would be screaming for the government to come in and build new infrastructure. At this point it is much more expensive and much less efficient because the development already occurred. So at a much higher price they will build a much less efficient system to make up for the externalities.

At this point people get sick of the suburbs and start moving to urban areas because they are turned off by the mess sprawl turned out to be. Now the sprawl turns into blight and the city becomes expensive. This is what we are starting to see in many US cities.

Also, the new high density development isnt planned either so a whole bunch of new problems occur.

Suburban development as reached its peak, and is now decreasing. Some suburban areas will continue to thrive, but overall we are going to see them recede. Instead of big decaying cities like Detroit there will be hundreds of blighted suburbs, while alone not as big of a problem, but all together a much bigger problem.
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Old 12-26-2011, 03:45 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
11,617 posts, read 8,306,855 times
Reputation: 3620
The older Northeast doesn't have this Smart Growth problem , because were in the process of fixing up our cities such as Newark , Camden , Trenton , Philly , and older Rail suburbs such as Media , Kearny , Englewood to accomendate Smart Growth....which in turn has slowed the growth and displacement of the rural areas which will be critical in this regions Future. Sure Fixing up the cities takes decades and is bumpy , but its better then expanding out further and further with either Auto Sprawl or New Urbanism Sprawl which just as bad. Maryland & Virginia's Development policies have always favored the Suburbs vs the Cities , that needs to change. The Whole Science what ever project planned for Gaithersburg could fit nicely in Bmore. The New Carrolton High Rise Density Project could be built nicely within Bmore.... The Future in Maryland and Virginia at the current time looks horrible vs Delaware , Southeastern PA , New Jersey , Connecticut , Lower Hudson Valley , Rhode Island , Southern Vermont , Southern New Hampshire , and Massachusetts. Your Smart growth policies should encourage inward development not outward development.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:15 AM
 
3,959 posts, read 3,439,099 times
Reputation: 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Yes, it is called market failure. Another word is tragedy of the commons. This "lets let the market determine everything," is a recipe for disaster. At some point you would have really big mess, especially traffic, and everyone would be screaming for the government to come in and build new infrastructure. At this point it is much more expensive and much less efficient because the development already occurred. So at a much higher price they will build a much less efficient system to make up for the externalities.

At this point people get sick of the suburbs and start moving to urban areas because they are turned off by the mess sprawl turned out to be. Now the sprawl turns into blight and the city becomes expensive. This is what we are starting to see in many US cities.

Also, the new high density development isnt planned either so a whole bunch of new problems occur.

Suburban development as reached its peak, and is now decreasing. Some suburban areas will continue to thrive, but overall we are going to see them recede. Instead of big decaying cities like Detroit there will be hundreds of blighted suburbs, while alone not as big of a problem, but all together a much bigger problem.
Let's recap the areas of MoCo, shall we, with the highest poverty - parts of Silver Spring, Gaithersburg, Rockville, Germantown and Wheaton that are densely settled and, in many cases, near the Red Line.

Conversely, let's consider the areas with very low poverty - Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Olney, Potomac and Poolesville. Apart from Bethesda, not so densely settled or even semi-rural in Poolesville's case.

Suffice it to say that the jury hasn't even convened to consider your arguments.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:17 AM
 
3,959 posts, read 3,439,099 times
Reputation: 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
The older Northeast doesn't have this Smart Growth problem , because were in the process of fixing up our cities such as Newark , Camden , Trenton , Philly , and older Rail suburbs such as Media , Kearny , Englewood to accomendate Smart Growth....which in turn has slowed the growth and displacement of the rural areas which will be critical in this regions Future. Sure Fixing up the cities takes decades and is bumpy , but its better then expanding out further and further with either Auto Sprawl or New Urbanism Sprawl which just as bad. Maryland & Virginia's Development policies have always favored the Suburbs vs the Cities , that needs to change. The Whole Science what ever project planned for Gaithersburg could fit nicely in Bmore. The New Carrolton High Rise Density Project could be built nicely within Bmore.... The Future in Maryland and Virginia at the current time looks horrible vs Delaware , Southeastern PA , New Jersey , Connecticut , Lower Hudson Valley , Rhode Island , Southern Vermont , Southern New Hampshire , and Massachusetts. Your Smart growth policies should encourage inward development not outward development.
I'm reasonably sure that, given a choice between a new development in Damascus or Olney, most folks around here would pick it over Newark, Camden or Trenton.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:25 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
11,617 posts, read 8,306,855 times
Reputation: 3620
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
I'm reasonably sure that, given a choice between a new development in Damascus or Olney, most folks around here would pick it over Newark, Camden or Trenton.
Well Newark is starting to see Gentrification in the North Ward , with people buying houses and spuring them up and students / artists buying apartments. Same is happening in the East Ward. Camden is seeing its Waterfront and Downtown being redeveloped after years of neglect , and people are snatching up the cheap rents and real estate in general. Trenton has cleaned up its Downtown and apartments and lofts have gone up around the train stations.....
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:34 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 1,395,461 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by drs72 View Post
I'm glad Montgomery County is being proactive about it's growth policies ahead of Plan Maryland. I, for one, think Plan MD is a good thing and I, too, see the contradiction in wanting to live in a large metropolitan area yet also live in a big house on a large lot. If smart growth deters some developers, so be it. They'll build their sprawled out developments in another state and continue to worsen traffic, exacerbate issues, and erode quality of life there.

What I think a lot of people don't contemplate when they build their quiet country homes near cities is that, when enough people get the same idea, it won't be the country any longer---just subdivision after subdivision after subdivision. When I was in elementary school, I went to a summer camp in St. Mary's County and that area was one of the most beautiful places I've been to in this state. I worry that sprawl is destroying Southern Maryland, its culture, and the nature of its people.

A lot of rural counties that haven't experienced the growth that our state's core has are opposing Plan Maryland. I think those people look at it as anti-business/development. However, as much as it hurts to live in an area that isn't growing, I don't think that's the kind of growth we want. As someone from Allegany County (which has a stagnant population), I'd love to see my area grow and prosper. But I wouldn't want to see all of our pristine forests cut down in the process. I'd much rather see more gentrification of Cumberland's beautiful downtown and revitalization of its neighborhoods (many of which are down-and-out, but contain stunning architecture).

Similarly, I think it's important that we preserve the farms, plantations, marshlands, forests, and other open spaces that we have left in our high growth regions. We're a very small state and we are running out of space, plain and simple. More space for you means less space for everyone else to enjoy, not to mention less space for wildlife's natural habitat. Don't even get me started on the implications sprawl has on the bay...
EXACTLY...


This is a Crazy Scam to Dictate anti-Growth while PRESERVING AND INCREASING BUSINESS, ECONOMIC, POPULATION GROWTH IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA............

Folx in Virginia sitting back and Laughing at Maryland tax payers for Foolishly continuing to vote for the Anti-Growth Politicians that were bought by Maryland Hating Virginian Tax Paying Capitalist....

Last edited by $mk8795; 12-26-2011 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:37 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 1,395,461 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
See if most people wanted urban living, than there wouldn't be a need for PlanMaryland because the market would already direct growth into existing urban areas. Yet more and more people move to Carroll and Harford Counties every year. More and more people commute across the Bay from Kent Island and other parts of Queen Annes County to Annapolis, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C. Frederick County is still growing.

Also if you add population to the existing areas, you would still need new schools, fire departments, etc so its really the same.
This ain't about Urban Planning It is a sugar coat to Preserve Business, Economic, and Population Growth for Virginia while further corrupting Maryland into a Third World State with low jobs, below average income population, illegal immigration, high crime, and poor highway infrastructure........
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:40 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 1,395,461 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Yes, it is called market failure. Another word is tragedy of the commons. This "lets let the market determine everything," is a recipe for disaster. At some point you would have really big mess, especially traffic, and everyone would be screaming for the government to come in and build new infrastructure. At this point it is much more expensive and much less efficient because the development already occurred. So at a much higher price they will build a much less efficient system to make up for the externalities.

At this point people get sick of the suburbs and start moving to urban areas because they are turned off by the mess sprawl turned out to be. Now the sprawl turns into blight and the city becomes expensive. This is what we are starting to see in many US cities.

Also, the new high density development isnt planned either so a whole bunch of new problems occur.

Suburban development as reached its peak, and is now decreasing. Some suburban areas will continue to thrive, but overall we are going to see them recede. Instead of big decaying cities like Detroit there will be hundreds of blighted suburbs, while alone not as big of a problem, but all together a much bigger problem.
Gee Wiz why the Hell has Virginia not started its own version of "Plan Maryland" since Virginia is Guilty of the crap your spewing that you think Maryland should not be doing......
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:45 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 1,395,461 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77 View Post
Let's recap the areas of MoCo, shall we, with the highest poverty - parts of Silver Spring, Gaithersburg, Rockville, Germantown and Wheaton that are densely settled and, in many cases, near the Red Line.

Conversely, let's consider the areas with very low poverty - Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Olney, Potomac and Poolesville. Apart from Bethesda, not so densely settled or even semi-rural in Poolesville's case.

Suffice it to say that the jury hasn't even convened to consider your arguments.
And if his opinion held any evidence then Why the Hell is "Suburban Sprawled" Western Fairfax County and Loudoun County not populated with poverty......
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