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You know the county tried to propose expanding Oxon Hill Rd to a 4 lane over 10 years ago. Their justification was that as a secondary artery to 210, the road would become more congested. The residents at that time shot it down because they didn't want to reduce the lot size of their property. However they still complain about the road being to congested and dangerous. The unfortunate thing is that their are only so many ways to improve the road within its current footprint. Given the number of subdivisions in the area, the roads will remain congested regardless of if future commercial development occurs.
I don't agree with the conclusion they drew. I actually thought their efforts were counterproductive. Regardless of the what the road were going to be, they were not going to stop the mall from coming. Some how they did, and some how they look stupid doing so, but not all of those who live in their area were opposed to expanding.
I don't think it would jump start the local economy. Casinos pull money out of communities. They think invest in them. The people who live in the county will never see a dime of the money generated from the proposed casino. But we will see the increased traffic, increased crime, and the affects of gambling addiction.
No good school, no good communities in Oxon Hill or FT Washington. No tax, no more policemen in this area. 99% of big companies wants to move to NV or MC, not in PG.
Oxon Hill or FT Washington or any area in PG can develop well dependent on your personal moral. Is it right?
On the flip side, some employers may see the potential of a place like that being a distraction to their employees and possibly promoting bad habits given the proximity to their jobs. Getting paid at the same place that you gamble seems like a disastrous idea. I don't recall tons of employers moving to Las Vegas.
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Well if a company has an overwhelming number of employees that are distracted by a nearby casino, they have bigger problems than their location Branding is good, I agree. I'm not sure if branding the National Harbor as a casino site is a good thing or not. On one hand you will attract a large crowd of gamblers potentially but on the other hand, you will lose people who are concerned about the social stigmas that gambling sites tend to have. It's definitely a gamble (no pun) to brand National Harbor in that way.
I am not saying that it should be branding as a gambling district. It could be branded as an entertainment district with a diverse set of amenities ranging from casinos, to theaters, concert halls, etc.
I personally think it's possible to build these places without compromising the infrastructure. My issue isn't the development, but just the way it is done in this county. Prime example, the Walmart that is about to be built. It is good to have one but the location, is extremely stupid. First, the entrance to the Walmart is not even at an intersection, so people who want to go to the Walmart will have to turn against on coming traffic just to get in there. Can you imagine how many people will turn into a Walmart? Second, Fort Washington has way, way more land and a lack of development and would have served as a better location. It's things like this that frustrated me. I'll give you another example. Accokeek only has two shopping centers and both of them have very similar stores. They both have a grocery store, a coffee/breakfast shop, chinese food restaurant, a fast food restaurant, and a cleaners among other things. Because we are so unoriginal in our planning, how about both chinese food restaurants have the name "Eastern". Why do we keep building redundant development? Did someone really think we need another chinese food restaurant in a town as small as Accokeek?
Agreed. My suggestion is that when Wal-Mart goes through the approval process that you recommend a better traffic flow/intersection. That is the best time to try to initiate change. There is definitely a lack of creativity when it comes to development in this area but that is also dictated by what people ask for. However that Baskin-Robbins needs to be shut down. I have gained more weight then I would admit since I found out they carry my favorite ice cream
I don't think this was as thought out as you think. I think Baker may have been pondering this, but this seems like a last resort type plan. I listened to him on the radio this morning on of all shows, the Sports Junkies and it seems as though he doesn't have much to say about the naysayers of this plan. He is talking about how great it will be and how much money there is to be made, but he never really addressed the major hurdles (Anne Arundel County, local residents, civic organizations). He is going to have to convince more people if he expects this to pass in my opinion. Giving a political front is not going to make this look any better, people have real concerns about this.
Agreed. He can't just walk in smile and think that is going to get him a pass. He is going up against a tough crowd. On another note, It kills me that they are acting like AA being against the plan is news. Of course they would be. That just like two McDonald's opening up next to each other.
Yes you are correct about the layout. And I agree buying on a main road is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean they will not fight this though.
Oh they will fight 100%. Some of the residents have recently filed an appeal for the Outlet regarding the removal of the historic designation. This was done in a move to stop the development so it will be fought.
Again if there was a balance it would be tolerable. If you are going to propose this why not give some proposal to infrastructure too. I think that would please some of the critics. The infrastructure, in my opinion, cannot be ignored. A two lane road to support a mall, restaurants and a world-class casino? Am I the only one that thinks that sounds insane?
In an ideal world it would be balanced. I do not disagree with you on that. Problem is that it rarely works out that way. This problem is not unique to PG either, a lot of cities/areas have this problem.
Difference of opinion. I think National Harbor, as a destination, will do just fine.
But it's not doing well now. Again National Harbor is a relative success. Relative to what? PG County, yes. To the DC region? Not really. Adding more competition especially the nation's capital will hurt business. Come on, who's competing with the nation's capital? The National Harbor will always have it's loyalist, but they will definitely lose some people, especially any people who are looking for a place to stay that is more accessible to public transportation.
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
There is a glut of office space. There just isn't any demand. Especially with telecommuting becoming more popular. So, I'm not sure why they would build more offices now to draw more white collar workers.
That's the problem and that's why we are talking about casinos. This county cannot attract jobs. The casino is expanding the tax base that was expected to come from luring employers. Have you ever wondered why they built office spaces? There is clearly a problem here. People do not want to work here and so they aren't attracting the employers/customers that they had hoped for.
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
Dude, I don't design them. I'm just the messenger.
Where is the money going to come from then? We tell developers, no. We're not ready for your business right now. We have to build roads first. We have to improve infrastructure. Oh wait, that's right, there IS no money for infrastructure because we have no commercial revenue. "So, casino, walmart, outlet center, just hold on until we can find the money to improve this infrastructure." In addition, $1 million dollars today will be worth $800,000 5 years from now. So, it will be more expensive to build infrastructure while we continue to tell developers no, not yet. Find somewhere else to build, like NOVA and Montgomery and Anne Arundel counties. Does that make sense? Development brings revenue which brings money to improve infrastructure. But nooooooo, "don't inconvenience me with your jobs, revenue, and your amenities. " What was the figure they said would bring PG county? $70 Million? Hmmm. Let's see. $70 Million vs. raising taxes to pay for transportation, which is what is going to happen anyway. Sure, residents will love that.
You don't have to tell the developers that. You just work right along with the developers to make sure you have set up a structure that will make it successful. Let's be hypothetical, let's say the casino does come and it comes on the scale that Baker proposes, do you think National Harbor Blvd, Harborview Ave and Oxon Hill Road, each having no more than 2 lanes each way, will have the structure to support a casino that could become an international draw? So how do you think people will think about your development if they have horror stories of spending hours in traffic just trying to get in. People won't keep coming. If people in this area get sick of waiting in traffic for the Redskins, they will get tired of waiting for anything.
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
YES! in this economy, you take what you can get. I don't think we are in a position to sit back and dole out funds for road projects while rejecting developers who want to build here just so people can "feel" like there's less traffic. That's a horrible business model for a municipality. Bring the jobs and services here first, then use the revenue from that to improve infrastructure. it's just that the economy is so bad that even the momentum of National Harbor is not enough to generate enough revenue to use for county-wide infrastructure improvements. Remember, there is more to the county than south county. Any new revenue will invariably be spread thin.
I disagree. You can approve projects, but do it responsibly. Personally I don't like the idea of gambling, but I wouldn't be opposed to something else being built there, only if it was more thought out. Building just to build is counterproductive. Ask Ritchie Marketplace in Capitol Heights about that and ask them why they have to build a car dealership in the shopping center instead of the Kohl's, Sam's Club and Sears that they originally proposed. It has to make sense. You can't start projects if you can't do the necessary things to make sure they are successful. If people can't get to this place because of the lack of transportation options, will they still come? Perhaps but I would imagine not at the same rate as they would if it was planned out better. If you're going to do something, do it in decency and in order, make sure your investment works instead of just making an investment hoping for a wing and a prayer.
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
That's why a study was completed. The study showed that National Harbor would be the best location if PG were to get a casino.
Not at all.
Of course, it did. I wonder who paid for the study....
Well if a company has an overwhelming number of employees that are distracted by a nearby casino, they have bigger problems than their location
You would be surprised at what happens at some of these businesses...
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Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
I am not saying that it should be branding as a gambling district. It could be branded as an entertainment district with a diverse set of amenities ranging from casinos, to theaters, concert halls, etc.
Okay I can see that, but what is Vegas known for? Sure people know about the shows and stuff, but if there was ever one word to describe Vegas,what would it be? Or how about Atlantic City?
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Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
Agreed. My suggestion is that when Wal-Mart goes through the approval process that you recommend a better traffic flow/intersection. That is the best time to try to initiate change. There is definitely a lack of creativity when it comes to development in this area but that is also dictated by what people ask for. However that Baskin-Robbins needs to be shut down. I have gained more weight then I would admit since I found out they carry my favorite ice cream
If you think the Baskin-Robbins ice cream is a problem then don't venture over to B&J's and get their ice cream if you haven't already...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
Agreed. He can't just walk in smile and think that is going to get him a pass. He is going up against a tough crowd. On another note, It kills me that they are acting like AA being against the plan is news. Of course they would be. That just like two McDonald's opening up next to each other.
Yeah. Just judging from this thread and the news reports, this is going to really divide this area. The Washington Post has another story about the opposition and they even mention your favorite state senator.
It also talks about another proposed site...The Blvd. When I saw that, I just went . They are just making the argument for National Harbor easier. Is that really the best alternative plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanScholar
In an ideal world it would be balanced. I do not disagree with you on that. Problem is that it rarely works out that way. This problem is not unique to PG either, a lot of cities/areas have this problem.
I feel as though most other areas do a better job of developing things though. The northern part of PG actually is significantly better compared to the southern part too. For the most part they did a great job with Woodmore Towne Centre. They have also been successful at developing Vista Gardens and the Bowie Town Center. What makes these places so successful is because they put them in places that made sense and they made changes when necessary. The National Harbor wasn't well thought out. The idea is great but they left no room for building something that would be a huge draw. I honestly don't know how they would solve the traffic problem, they have a mess on their hands.
I don't agree with the conclusion they drew. I actually thought their efforts were counterproductive. Regardless of the what the road were going to be, they were not going to stop the mall from coming. Some how they did, and some how they look stupid doing so, but not all of those who live in their area were opposed to expanding.
Yea I know not everyone was opposed to the four lane expansion but the loudest of them got their way and now everyone has to suffer.
No good school, no good communities in Oxon Hill or FT Washington. No tax, no more policemen in this area. 99% of big companies wants to move to NV or MC, not in PG.
Oxon Hill or FT Washington or any area in PG can develop well dependent on your personal moral. Is it right?
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I will say this again. Casinos do not bring money to communities. They take money out.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I will say this again. Casinos do not bring money to communities. They take money out.
And what business doesn't take money out? When you go watch a movie at the theater, that's money leaving your pocket going to the movie theater. It's not being recycled back out to the community. If we buy a $30 ticket to Six Flags, is that money coming back to the community?
You would be surprised at what happens at some of these businesses...
Okay I can see that, but what is Vegas known for? Sure people know about the shows and stuff, but if there was ever one word to describe Vegas,what would it be? Or how about Atlantic City?
I hear you but we are only talking about one casino. I am guessing but I don't believe Vegas was known as a gambling mecca when there was only one casino.
If you think the Baskin-Robbins ice cream is a problem then don't venture over to B&J's and get their ice cream if you haven't already...
Don't tempt me.
Yeah. Just judging from this thread and the news reports, this is going to really divide this area. The Washington Post has another story about the opposition and they even mention your favorite state senator.
It also talks about another proposed site...The Blvd. When I saw that, I just went . They are just making the argument for National Harbor easier. Is that really the best alternative plan?
Thanks for sharing. Yeah I agree in no uncertain terms should the Blvd be considered. Right now they are only pontificating that crime will rise. Placing it there would make that a reality.
I feel as though most other areas do a better job of developing things though. The northern part of PG actually is significantly better compared to the southern part too. For the most part they did a great job with Woodmore Towne Centre. They have also been successful at developing Vista Gardens and the Bowie Town Center. What makes these places so successful is because they put them in places that made sense and they made changes when necessary. The National Harbor wasn't well thought out. The idea is great but they left no room for building something that would be a huge draw. I honestly don't know how they would solve the traffic problem, they have a mess on their hands.
I agree. It may be because Southern PG was considered a solid rural tier until a few years ago when they designated it as developing tier. That change opened up the possibilities of what could happen here. I still think that they are trying to figure out how to position it.
And what business doesn't take money out? When you go watch a movie at the theater, that's money leaving your pocket going to the movie theater. It's not being recycled back out to the community. If we buy a $30 ticket to Six Flags, is that money coming back to the community?
But county will not have to spend money on educating people on the pitfalls of movie watching. They will eventually have to do that if gambling becomes a part of the community. I'm not as worried about possible spikes in crime at the movies. It's an activity people of all ages can enjoy. Parents can take their children.
Six Flags hires and occupies teenagers, a group that should never be left to their own devices. Families can spend time together at Six Flags. Those teenagers that work there will spend a lot of the money they earn at other establishments in the county. Gamblers will be spending a lot of their disposable income in one place. Some will end up spending rent, gas, or bill money trying to turn their luck around.
Someone who counsels gambling addicts once told me that it was easier to help someone get off drugs than gambling. You do not willingly bring that type of activity into your community.
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What was the figure they said would bring PG county? $70 Million? Hmmm. Let's see. $70 Million vs. raising taxes to pay for transportation, which is what is going to happen anyway. Sure, residents will love that. 
. They are just making the argument for National Harbor easier. Is that really the best alternative plan?
