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Old 08-29-2012, 06:12 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,211,573 times
Reputation: 3176

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I've had a chance to visit both of these shopping centers a number of times and am amazed at the differences, and I wholeheartedly believe Woodmore Town Center could be so much better than what it is, even at it's beginning. One thing that I should point out, is that both of these shopping centers are anchors by Wegmans, but there isn't much else in common.

Tenants for Woodmore Town Center:
Beauty Mart
Best Buy
Centre Cleaners
Closet Envy
Costco
Crown Royal Barbers
Hour Eyes
Irie Eyes
JC Penney's
Kenny's Chinese
Mad for Chicken
Men's Wearhouse
Noodles & Co.
Party City
Petco
PNC Bank
Sleepy's
Spa 1 Nails
Subway
Super Nails and Spa
T-Mobile
The Hair Spa
The UPS Store
Ultimo
Wegmans
Woodmore Tailor
Woodmore Wine

Tenants for Stonebridge:

Capital One Bank
Potomac Nail & Spa
Jos. A. Bank
Neibauer Dental
Unleashed
PNC Bank
Leisure Fitness
Zoe Kitchen
Stonebridge Dry Clean
Uncle Julio's
Bubbles Salon
Gymboree
Quinn's Goldsmith
AT&T Mobility
Travinia Italian Kitchen
Coldwater Creek
Chico's
PF Changs
Firebirds
Charming Charlie
Toby Keith's I Love This Bar
Sport + Health
White House/Black Market
REI
Golfsmith
DSW
Go Wireless
Wegmans

I will add that some of the stores in both shopping centers aren't open yet. But with that said, there is a huge difference between the two shopping centers. Stonebridge was able to use Wegman's as an anchor to get some upscale and very unique stores. Woodmore has basically managed to get some very typical low to middle level retail that is often times repeated in this county. The strange part about all this is the demographics around the two areas. Not too far away from Stonebridge is what is easily considered to be the worst part of Woodbridge, Marumsco off of Route 1 and it has a Median Household income of $63k (according to the 2010 Census). That area has reputation for being a high crime area and has had difficult attracting businesses along Route 1. This shopping center has been one of the biggest momentum shifts for that part. Mitchellville (which includes the Woodmore subdivision) has a median Household income of $109k. Both places also draw from other surrounding places. Stonebridge draws crowds from Lake Ridge and Lorton which both have high incomes as well, while Woodmore draws from Bowie, Largo, Lanham and Upper Marlboro.

The Stonebridge Shopping Center, in my opinion, seems like it is better planned, compliments other surrounding shopping options (i.e. Potomac Mills), and has way more momentum. Not only are they about to soon open up their new phase with newer restaurants and shops, but they are also about to move the minor league baseball team behind the shopping center and build new apartments. And before any of this is done, they are opening up two more entrances/exits for the shopping center, while the Wegmans was attracting huge crowds. When Woodmore Town Center opened, the county realized how inadequate the turning light was so they had to restructure the one and only entrance to the shopping center at the time. Also, outside of Wegmans, Best Buy, Costco and JC Penney's, is Woodmore Town Center really offering anything that is unique compared to Largo Town Center?

As a resident of this county, I would be a little concern about development going forward. Outside the National Harbor, it appears that this county is still struggling to attract more upscale retailers. Should the National Harbor be the only place that has it? I mean we're talking about two shopping centers that were developed virtually a year apart, during a difficult economic time and both are taking a far, far different approach. Can we honestly say that Woodmore Town Center meets it's clientele's needs? How can a shopping center that is in a county 30 miles from DC and has less jobs attract better businesses than a wealthy area that is literally less 10 miles from DC? What confidence would this type of development give a place like Konterra or even Westphalia Town Center, which will equally have a high income base near them? How will they attract upscale stores and what will make them different than Woodmore?
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,768,765 times
Reputation: 6259
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
I've had a chance to visit both of these shopping centers a number of times and am amazed at the differences, and I wholeheartedly believe Woodmore Town Center could be so much better than what it is, even at it's beginning. One thing that I should point out, is that both of these shopping centers are anchors by Wegmans, but there isn't much else in common.

Tenants for Woodmore Town Center:
Beauty Mart
Best Buy
Centre Cleaners
Closet Envy
Costco
Crown Royal Barbers
Hour Eyes
Irie Eyes
JC Penney's
Kenny's Chinese
Mad for Chicken
Men's Wearhouse
Noodles & Co.
Party City
Petco
PNC Bank
Sleepy's
Spa 1 Nails
Subway
Super Nails and Spa
T-Mobile
The Hair Spa
The UPS Store
Ultimo
Wegmans
Woodmore Tailor
Woodmore Wine

Tenants for Stonebridge:

Capital One Bank
Potomac Nail & Spa
Jos. A. Bank
Neibauer Dental
Unleashed
PNC Bank
Leisure Fitness
Zoe Kitchen
Stonebridge Dry Clean
Uncle Julio's
Bubbles Salon
Gymboree
Quinn's Goldsmith
AT&T Mobility
Travinia Italian Kitchen
Coldwater Creek
Chico's
PF Changs
Firebirds
Charming Charlie
Toby Keith's I Love This Bar
Sport + Health
White House/Black Market
REI
Golfsmith
DSW
Go Wireless
Wegmans

I will add that some of the stores in both shopping centers aren't open yet. But with that said, there is a huge difference between the two shopping centers. Stonebridge was able to use Wegman's as an anchor to get some upscale and very unique stores. Woodmore has basically managed to get some very typical low to middle level retail that is often times repeated in this county. The strange part about all this is the demographics around the two areas. Not too far away from Stonebridge is what is easily considered to be the worst part of Woodbridge, Marumsco off of Route 1 and it has a Median Household income of $63k (according to the 2010 Census). That area has reputation for being a high crime area and has had difficult attracting businesses along Route 1. This shopping center has been one of the biggest momentum shifts for that part. Mitchellville (which includes the Woodmore subdivision) has a median Household income of $109k. Both places also draw from other surrounding places. Stonebridge draws crowds from Lake Ridge and Lorton which both have high incomes as well, while Woodmore draws from Bowie, Largo, Lanham and Upper Marlboro.

The Stonebridge Shopping Center, in my opinion, seems like it is better planned, compliments other surrounding shopping options (i.e. Potomac Mills), and has way more momentum. Not only are they about to soon open up their new phase with newer restaurants and shops, but they are also about to move the minor league baseball team behind the shopping center and build new apartments. And before any of this is done, they are opening up two more entrances/exits for the shopping center, while the Wegmans was attracting huge crowds. When Woodmore Town Center opened, the county realized how inadequate the turning light was so they had to restructure the one and only entrance to the shopping center at the time. Also, outside of Wegmans, Best Buy, Costco and JC Penney's, is Woodmore Town Center really offering anything that is unique compared to Largo Town Center?

As a resident of this county, I would be a little concern about development going forward. Outside the National Harbor, it appears that this county is still struggling to attract more upscale retailers. Should the National Harbor be the only place that has it? I mean we're talking about two shopping centers that were developed virtually a year apart, during a difficult economic time and both are taking a far, far different approach. Can we honestly say that Woodmore Town Center meets it's clientele's needs? How can a shopping center that is in a county 30 miles from DC and has less jobs attract better businesses than a wealthy area that is literally less 10 miles from DC? What confidence would this type of development give a place like Konterra or even Westphalia Town Center, which will equally have a high income base near them? How will they attract upscale stores and what will make them different than Woodmore?
I haven't been to the Woodbridge mall but it seems like you're splitting hairs somewhat. The only glaring difference between the two lists is that Woodmore doesn't have the typical suburban chain restuarants while the Woodbridge mall does. I'm not exactly sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Businesses will locate where they can make money. Evidently the businesses you want don't think they can make money in PG or whatever they make is not enough to outweigh some other costs. Does racism play a role? Maybe I don't know although I do see quite a few non-blacks at the Wegman's so I'm personally not convinced that's the reason.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:33 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,211,573 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I haven't been to the Woodbridge mall but it seems like you're splitting hairs somewhat. The only glaring difference between the two lists is that Woodmore doesn't have the typical suburban chain restuarants while the Woodbridge mall does. I'm not exactly sure if that's a good or bad thing.

Businesses will locate where they can make money. Evidently the businesses you want don't think they can make money in PG or whatever they make is not enough to outweigh some other costs. Does racism play a role? Maybe I don't know although I do see quite a few non-blacks at the Wegman's so I'm personally not convinced that's the reason.
Outside of the four stores that I mentioned, could you see yourself honestly going out of your way to Woodmore? I'm not saying it's a bad shopping center, but given the demographics around it, you would think they would have catered to that more. And whatever the reason is for those other types of business not coming, what would be different with the next development? What has to change for this county to get those types of stores?
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:48 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,732,411 times
Reputation: 1222
I can understand your points. But I wouldn't call the establishments that I recognize in either center "upscale" per se, nor do any of those selections make me feel cheated as a PG resident. Some of the listed stores in Stonebridge are more mid-scale, many of them similar to what is located at Woodmore -- just different and more varied selections (although the women's clothing stores and Gymboree are better choices). The Best Buy and JCPenney are major stores (although, again, not upscale, yet better than what's at the Boulevard) that are good additions for Woodmore. Some more upscale small stores and nicer boutiques would be great, but, hey we've had this conversation before. Unfortunately, PG attracts what it attracts right now. Although I don't see too much better going up around the new Wegmans in the Waugh Chapel area.

In my opinion, it's difficult to compare areas in Northern Virginia and PG without taking into account that: 1. PG is playing catch-up, and 2. NoVA has a longer history of more mid-scale and upscale businesses flocking to that area. Also, to be honest, the store list for Stonebridge sounds a lot like a shopping center in AA County (the Parole area), which has several of those stores or similar stores in one area, plus a nearby shopping center with Whole Foods and a Target, etc.

That being said, PG needs to demand that promises from developers are kept and not just fall for the smoke and mirrors. I will say that local, small business owners seem to be getting a chance to locate at PG shopping centers -- something I don't see often at similar venues in other counties.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 11,211,573 times
Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
I can understand your points. But I wouldn't call the establishments that I recognize in either center "upscale" per se, nor do any of those selections make me feel cheated as a PG resident. Some of the listed stores in Stonebridge are more mid-scale, many of them similar to what is located at Woodmore -- just different and more varied selections (although the women's clothing stores and Gymboree are better choices). The Best Buy and JCPenney are major stores (although, again, not upscale, yet better than what's at the Boulevard) that are good additions for Woodmore. Some more upscale small stores and nicer boutiques would be great, but, hey we've had this conversation before. Unfortunately, PG attracts what it attracts right now. Although I don't see too much better going up around the new Wegmans in the Waugh Chapel area.

In my opinion, it's difficult to compare areas in Northern Virginia and PG without taking into account that: 1. PG is playing catch-up, and 2. NoVA has a longer history of more mid-scale and upscale businesses flocking to that area. Also, to be honest, the store list for Stonebridge sounds a lot like a shopping center in AA County (the Parole area), which has several of those stores or similar stores in one area, plus a nearby shopping center with Whole Foods and a Target, etc.

That being said, PG needs to demand that promises from developers are kept and not just fall for the smoke and mirrors. I will say that local, small business owners seem to be getting a chance to locate at PG shopping centers -- something I don't see often at similar venues in other counties.
Well the reason why I made the comparison is because there are some similarities between Prince William County and Prince George's County. Prince William County in a lot of ways hasn't really fit in with the rest of NoVA. Most of their restaurants have been your typical chain restaurants for years and it has never been a place that you would go as opposed to the Galleria. They are just now starting to get to the point of adding some higher quality stores and restaurants. I look at Prince George's County as a place that has more potential, but doesn't live up to where even Prince William County is at when it comes to commercial development.

I'm just wondering if Prince William County has made this turnaround, what is PG doing wrong? I mean Woodmore doesn't even have a sit down restaurant. Everything is pretty much a carry out. What kind of town center doesn't have a sit down restaurant? That should have been one of the first things they placed there. I just don't see the vision. When I hear the name Woodmore, I instantly think of $$$. This shopping center, in my opinion hasn't really separated itself. It is less aesthetically pleasing Bowie Town Center at this point. They should honestly aim higher than this.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:51 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,732,411 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
Well the reason why I made the comparison is because there are some similarities between Prince William County and Prince George's County. Prince William County in a lot of ways hasn't really fit in with the rest of NoVA. Most of their restaurants have been your typical chain restaurants for years and it has never been a place that you would go as opposed to the Galleria. They are just now starting to get to the point of adding some higher quality stores and restaurants. I look at Prince George's County as a place that has more potential, but doesn't live up to where even Prince William County is at when it comes to commercial development.

I'm just wondering if Prince William County has made this turnaround, what is PG doing wrong? I mean Woodmore doesn't even have a sit down restaurant. Everything is pretty much a carry out. What kind of town center doesn't have a sit down restaurant? That should have been one of the first things they placed there. I just don't see the vision. When I hear the name Woodmore, I instantly think of $$$. This shopping center, in my opinion hasn't really separated itself. It is less aesthetically pleasing Bowie Town Center at this point. They should honestly aim higher than this.
You're right, Bowie Town Center looks better and has more variety than Woodmore Town Center. I wonder if the problem is the location of Woodmore. It's a hop, skip and a jump from Landover. While race may be an issue with regard to commercial development in PG, I think crime (or perceptions of it) is also a major factor. Or at least crime can be used as a good excuse.

I do think that Prince William can ride on the coattails of Fairfax (and Loudon) when it comes to development success. Also, I don't see that other parts of NoVA are scared of Prince William becoming more commercially developed (in other words, they can share the wealth). But I could be wrong. In Maryland, I see other, more successful counties begrudging any major commercial gains or attempts in PG. The casino issue is one example.
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Old 08-29-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
5,586 posts, read 6,368,524 times
Reputation: 2164
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Businesses will locate where they can make money. Evidently the businesses you want don't think they can make money in PG or whatever they make is not enough to outweigh some other costs. Does racism play a role? Maybe I don't know although I do see quite a few non-blacks at the Wegman's so I'm personally not convinced that's the reason.
I'm surprised that many chains haven't taken advantage of the propensity of PG residents to spend money on good clothing and good food. I have to keep race and demographics as an issue with developers. PG has the income. It has been proven that we can spend just as much as any other jurisdiction. That's why we flock to Pentagon City, Downtown, Tysons, etc. Studies of PG residents flocking to the other shopping districts are taken into consideration. PG residents have been flocking to the western suburbs to shop for so long, I'm not sure they'd even recognize the improvements in shopping in PG if and when it comes. The chain would have to do a heavy marketing campaign to snap the residents out of the allure of the western shopping amenities.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,768,765 times
Reputation: 6259
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
I'm surprised that many chains haven't taken advantage of the propensity of PG residents to spend money on good clothing and good food. I have to keep race and demographics as an issue with developers. PG has the income. It has been proven that we can spend just as much as any other jurisdiction. That's why we flock to Pentagon City, Downtown, Tysons, etc. Studies of PG residents flocking to the other shopping districts are taken into consideration. PG residents have been flocking to the western suburbs to shop for so long, I'm not sure they'd even recognize the improvements in shopping in PG if and when it comes. The chain would have to do a heavy marketing campaign to snap the residents out of the allure of the western shopping amenities.
I wonder how much security plays a role? I go to the Applebees off of PA Ave and an officer was shot there once. They have a uniformed officer there when I go there now. When I go to the Richmond Highway or even Waldorf I don't see police.

I mean I guess the cost of security shouldn't be a deal breaker but who knows. The demand is certainly there but is it worth the hassle?
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,768,765 times
Reputation: 6259
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans View Post
Outside of the four stores that I mentioned, could you see yourself honestly going out of your way to Woodmore? I'm not saying it's a bad shopping center, but given the demographics around it, you would think they would have catered to that more. And whatever the reason is for those other types of business not coming, what would be different with the next development? What has to change for this county to get those types of stores?
Not really but I do frequent there. I've been to Men's Warehouse, the Noodle Shop, Best Buy, Costco and of course Wegman's. It's a start.

I wonder also if frankly the business climate in PG and Maryland help matters. PG has had a reputation of pay to play so national chains will naturally reticent of engaging in such activities. Also look at the hoops Wal-Mart is going through just to open in DC. Same politicians in DC are in PG and who knows what liberal policies they'd want to extract from a business?

Opening in Virginia may simply be easier and more profitable.
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Old 06-24-2014, 03:12 PM
 
1 posts, read 7,264 times
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I was glad that Wegman's came to Prince George's County, so that I wouldn't have to travel to Virginia to shop. HOWEVER, I thought Woodmore Town Center would have more upscale stores and dining as well. We did get Copper Canyon, and Irie, but that's not NEARLY enough to fulfill our restaurant desires, and J.C. Penney?? Seriously! We want more upscale stores! I hope the developer Petrie Ross has more planned for Woodmore Town Center, because the income is here and we deserve to have a place where shopping and dining is a fun and exciting adventure. I was there for the opening of Wegmans from the last administration and we were so happy because we felt as though Prince George's County was being taken seriously, finally.
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