Arundel & Howard look into later school start times (Baltimore: homes, neighborhood)

[adelphi_sky]

And where is Prince Georges County in this discussion?

Arundel, Howard schools look into later school start times

School systems in the Washington area are looking at later high school start times. Advocates say the teenage biological clock is geared for later bedtimes and blame a lack of sleep for contributing to absenteeism, depression and poor academic performance.
School leaders in Anne Arundel and Howard counties announced recently that they are looking into the issue, joining Montgomery and Fairfax counties.
Advocates are also scheduled to discuss the idea Friday at the annual conference of the National Association of Secondary School Principals being held at National Harbor.

[North Beach Person]

Prince George's is where Arundel, and maybe Howard, will end up. Back at status quo. The reasons are partially financial (changing all high school start times to later instead of having shifts would raise transportation costs by around 50%) and partially just plain common sense.

In almost 30 years teaching in PG I've taught at schools with all 3 current starts. In every single one you still had students roll in late and fall asleep in class or complain about being tired. You could start school at Noon and the kids who are late for the 7:45 start would be late at the later time, too. And the same ones would still fall asleep and complain about being tired.

My school has bounced between 7:45 and 8:30 starts over the last few years. The same staff members are late for both times as well as the same kids, or their siblings.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Prince George's is where Arundel, and maybe Howard, will end up. Back at status quo. The reasons are partially financial (changing all high school start times to later instead of having shifts would raise transportation costs by around 50%) and partially just plain common sense.

In almost 30 years teaching in PG I've taught at schools with all 3 current starts. In every single one you still had students roll in late and fall asleep in class or complain about being tired. You could start school at Noon and the kids who are late for the 7:45 start would be late at the later time, too. And the same ones would still fall asleep and complain about being tired.

My school has bounced between 7:45 and 8:30 starts over the last few years. The same staff members are late for both times as well as the same kids, or their siblings.

*sigh*

[Khemistry]

Why does PG County need to be involved in this discussion. PG County Schools have some of THE latest start times, in the entire Baltimore/Washington region. Some high schools start at 9:30am and end at 4:10. Some middle schools end as late as 4:20pm. The only thing PGCPS could do is start ALL high schools at 9:30pm, instead of a portion of them. I doubt that would be impossible, but it would fall back to the same lame excuse Montgomery County Schools have cited: not wanting to have to go through the task of realigning the buses to support all high schools starting at the same time.

[TCR25]

Originally Posted by Khemistry

Why does PG County need to be involved in this discussion. PG County Schools have some of THE latest start times, in the entire Baltimore/Washington region. Some high schools start at 9:30am and end at 4:10. Some middle schools end as late as 4:20pm. The only thing PGCPS could do is start ALL high schools at 9:30pm, instead of a portion of them. I doubt that would be impossible, but it would fall back to the same lame excuse Montgomery County Schools have cited: not wanting to have to go through the task of realigning the buses to support all high schools starting at the same time.

It's not really a lame excuse. The problem for PGCPS is that the district is quite large and has a large student body and it ranges from urban to suburban to rural. Finding an efficient way to run bus to get all those kids where they need to go is hard, especially when parents are clamoring for bus stops to be closer to homes, for buses to run directly from those stops to the school (as opposed to having kids maybe take two buses, one to/from the neighborhood to a collection point and then to/from school), and to keep high school kids and middle school kids and elementary kids all segregated on to different buses. And that's not even looking at the issue of specialty school transportation.

The county made a number of changes to bus routes last year as part of an attempt to cut costs and to better rationalize service. Kids on my block who are in specialty programs have to walk four blocks to a bus stop now instead of just to the corner. (If they were in the local elementary or middle school, they'd have to walk all the way to school, which is what I do with my kids ... a little over a half mile each way.) With those changes, PGCPS found it had cut the number of buses too deeply and has been working on routes and adding buses, and they're continuing to look at route-planning systems to better align buses and routes and bell times.

That said, there's really no good way to have all county high schools start at the same time, unless you spend significantly more on buses, which also means adding ancillary problems like adding to traffic congestion and pollution.

[Fast GTO]

Completely wrong discussion to even be having. Changing start times by 1 hour here or 30 minutes there will have no impact other than screwing with a parents schedule. Sounds like 'hippy' science to me.

How about discussing going to a year around school system with a 1330-1430 release giving kids more time for homework and extracurriculars while also preventing the yearly summer time brain dump.

It has proven extremely successful all over the world, especially in Europe. While we are at it how about adding in vocational tracks and funding it starting in 11th grade for those students who would rather be carpenters, mechanics, or software engineers?

[Khemistry]

Originally Posted by TCR25

It's not really a lame excuse. The problem for PGCPS is that the district is quite large and has a large student body and it ranges from urban to suburban to rural. Finding an efficient way to run bus to get all those kids where they need to go is hard, especially when parents are clamoring for bus stops to be closer to homes, for buses to run directly from those stops to the school (as opposed to having kids maybe take two buses, one to/from the neighborhood to a collection point and then to/from school), and to keep high school kids and middle school kids and elementary kids all segregated on to different buses. And that's not even looking at the issue of specialty school transportation.

The county made a number of changes to bus routes last year as part of an attempt to cut costs and to better rationalize service. Kids on my block who are in specialty programs have to walk four blocks to a bus stop now instead of just to the corner. (If they were in the local elementary or middle school, they'd have to walk all the way to school, which is what I do with my kids ... a little over a half mile each way.) With those changes, PGCPS found it had cut the number of buses too deeply and has been working on routes and adding buses, and they're continuing to look at route-planning systems to better align buses and routes and bell times.

That said, there's really no good way to have all county high schools start at the same time, unless you spend significantly more on buses, which also means adding ancillary problems like adding to traffic congestion and pollution.

My comment (not clear enough in hindsight) was directed more towards Montgomery County Public Schools. Unlike PGCPS, all MCPS start at the same exact times based on elementary, middle, or high school. So in their case, it wouldn't mean much to just swap the later starting elementary school times with the ridiculously early starting high school times. PGCPS isn't the same. Some schools across all levels start rather early, yet others start very late. I guess I was kind of confused as to why it was suggested PGCPS needs to wake-up and consider later starting times. They already have the latest starting times in the region... it's just not across the board.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

Completely wrong discussion to even be having. Changing start times by 1 hour here or 30 minutes there will have no impact other than screwing with a parents schedule. Sounds like 'hippy' science to me.

How about discussing going to a year around school system with a 1330-1430 release giving kids more time for homework and extracurriculars while also preventing the yearly summer time brain dump.

It has proven extremely successful all over the world, especially in Europe. While we are at it how about adding in vocational tracks and funding it starting in 11th grade for those students who would rather be carpenters, mechanics, or software engineers?

I think that's a great idea and that's something they have discussed in PG, but the issue that they had with implementing that is the cost. The school system is going to strap for cash for the foreseeable future, so I just don't know how realistic is for this to happen.

[armory]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

Sounds like 'hippy' science to me.

Agreed

[KCP_1980]

My kiddos attend a PG elementary school that opens around 9 AM and has an instructional day that begins at 9:30 -- mostly due to the whole bussing fiasco. We were supposed to start at 9:15 AM with instruction, but ...

I actually would prefer the kids started school an hour earlier. Starting kids at 9 AM is a bit of a challenge for parents who have to commute into DC or NoVA for jobs. Hubby and I had to hire a morning sitter to handle the drive to school (we don't do the buses; in part, because of the aforementioned fiasco and other reasons) because we can't stick around long enough to do it ourselves.