The Infamous PG County "Mall Curse" (Bowie, Laurel: tax, price)

[RA.]

I miss Capital Plaza Mall.

My ex girlfriend called Prince George's Plaza, "Ghetto." I found it offensive.

[rdflk]

My ex girlfriend called Prince George's Plaza, "Ghetto." I found it offensive.

But to be fair -- was she basically just speaking the truth?....which can hurt sometimes.

[rdflk]

One person way back on page 14 mentioned marketing...Bowie Town Center should market itself -- and get the right stores. I can't tell you what a psychological blow it was for me for BTC to lose the Bed Bath and Beyond to Waugh Chapel south.

I think it's great for the BTC landlord that Teavana is there. But is BTC REALLY the right 'fit' for BTC -- as BTC is now (and not as it would like to be) If Bowie can't get a Trader Joes's which has much broader appeal than Teavana -- why the heck would Teavana think BTC is a good location for a store?

The only thing I go to BTC for is the Barnes and Noble -- maybe twice a year. And I love smoothies so once recently I went to the Orange Julius there. But always have thought BTC was sort of 'weak.' And when BBB left for Waugh Chapel -- I thought uh, oh, nail in the coffin.

Unless it can reposition itself -- BTC is on a long s l o w road downward. I've never seen any crime committed at BTC (but I'm also never there) But I've been concerned about what I 'hear and read' about crime there -- which is at the heart of the all important word PERCEPTION!. I read once that many of the 'criminals' at BTC come by car from further inside the beltway. But they come on Rte 50 get off -- do their deed, and hop back on the highway. And of course any residents who lived in the beltway and moved to Bowie may have also brought any other 'issues' they had right along with them.

As for the BTC/Waugh Chapel issue....
Heck the new Waugh Chapel south has pulled stores from the original Waugh Chapel Center -- and it's connected and right next door! I'm starting to fear for the original Waugh Chapel Center.

I live in PG and do 90% of my shopping in AA. Simple as that. I just hope northern PG doesn't go down hill before I can retire and leave. And if things improve that's really be great, and preferred.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by rdflk

One person way back on page 14 mentioned marketing...Bowie Town Center should market itself -- and get the right stores. I can't tell you what a psychological blow it was for me for BTC to lose the Bed Bath and Beyond to Waugh Chapel south.

I think it's great for the BTC landlord that Teavana is there. But is BTC REALLY the right 'fit' for BTC -- as BTC is now (and not as it would like to be) If Bowie can't get a Trader Joes's which has much broader appeal than Teavana -- why the heck would Teavana think BTC is a good location for a store?

The only thing I go to BTC for is the Barnes and Noble -- maybe twice a year. And I love smoothies so once recently I went to the Orange Julius there. But always have thought BTC was sort of 'weak.' And when BBB left for Waugh Chapel -- I thought uh, oh, nail in the coffin.

Unless it can reposition itself -- BTC is on a long s l o w road downward. I've never seen any crime committed at BTC (but I'm also never there) But I've been concerned about what I 'hear and read' about crime there -- which is at the heart of the all important word PERCEPTION!. I read once that many of the 'criminals' at BTC come by car from further inside the beltway. But they come on Rte 50 get off -- do their deed, and hop back on the highway. And of course any residents who lived in the beltway and moved to Bowie may have also brought any other 'issues' they had right along with them.

As for the BTC/Waugh Chapel issue....
Heck the new Waugh Chapel south has pulled stores from the original Waugh Chapel Center -- and it's connected and right next door! I'm starting to fear for the original Waugh Chapel Center.

I live in PG and do 90% of my shopping in AA. Simple as that. I just hope northern PG doesn't go down hill before I can retire and leave. And if things improve that's really be great, and preferred.

I've been reading a few books on suburbia and urbanism and there is a consensus that there is a shift toward cities and those areas with access to mass transit. You may be seeing what is the beginning affects of this shift. Far out suburbs are expected to lose their appeal over the coming decades and unfortunately that may mean that they deteriorate from their heydays in the 80's and 90s. This may be the case for a lot of suburbs outside of the beltway.

[tcave360]

Just saw PG Plaza/UTC for the first time since 2009 today on my way to a birthday party at the splash park in Hyattsville. That area definitely has a lot of potential. It looked really nice and pleasantly urban (even a little gritty).

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I've been reading a few books on suburbia and urbanism and there is a consensus that there is a shift toward cities and those areas with access to mass transit. You may be seeing what is the beginning affects of this shift. Far out suburbs are expected to lose their appeal over the coming decades and unfortunately that may mean that they deteriorate from their heydays in the 80's and 90s. This may be the case for a lot of suburbs outside of the beltway.

Basically similar to how cities and suburbs are in other parts of the world, such as Europe, most particularly the Paris metro area. Paris is highly desirable whereas most of its suburbs, most especially its northern 'burbs, are usually derided for their safety/crime issues (I believe the western 'burbs are fine though). It seems like the US is possibly following suit.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by tcave360

It seems like the US is possibly following suit.

Especially as this generation falls out of love with the automobile and the McMansion as status symbols. it is becoming cool now NOT to own a car living in cities where mass transit is easily accessible.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I've been reading a few books on suburbia and urbanism and there is a consensus that there is a shift toward cities and those areas with access to mass transit. You may be seeing what is the beginning affects of this shift. Far out suburbs are expected to lose their appeal over the coming decades and unfortunately that may mean that they deteriorate from their heydays in the 80's and 90s. This may be the case for a lot of suburbs outside of the beltway.

Bowie's issues started from the housing crisis. It became affordable to people years ago who would never even think about moving to Bowie. PG is going to continue to suffer as long as the slow recovery continue and DC continues to price people out. It's not to say that everyone that moves there is bad, but people who moves from those areas, have a much different mentality than you would typically see in that area.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justtitans

Bowie's issues started from the housing crisis. It became affordable to people years ago who would never even think about moving to Bowie. PG is going to continue to suffer as long as the slow recovery continue and DC continues to price people out. It's not to say that everyone that moves there is bad, but people who moves from those areas, have a much different mentality than you would typically see in that area.

I don't think the whole county will suffer. As I said, in areas where there is little to no access to transit, the housing will become more affordable as those areas become less desirable. The housing crises masked this growing trend to some degree by depressing prices in all areas of the county and not just those in the outer suburbs.

Housing prices are rebounding in the county. Though not as fast as surrounding areas. But the silver lining is that those cheaper prices makes the county attractive to solid middle-class families with the same access to DC as the other counties. However, I do think the outer suburbs that lack transit options, diversity, and density will continue to see stagnation or decline.

Toll Brothers, the luxury home builder, had a SFH/multifamily ratio of 80/20. Now 50% of their business is in multifamily units in urban and transit areas. It will be interesting to see how other builders are responding as well.

PG will bounce back from the housing crash, but the key is WHERE the bounce-back occurs and that will hopefully reveal the trend of growth from DC outward to the Beltway around the 15 metro stations. We already see heavy investment in Largo, New Carrollton, Hyattsville, College Park, Riverdale Park, and Greenbelt. All of those cities are inside or near the Beltway.

There are still projects like Konterra and Westphalia which are farther away from transit and the Beltway. It will be interesting to see how those projects progress given this new shift. Westphalia is a huge undertaking with thousands of new residential units planned. It seems to me that these developers would scale these suburban projects down and start buying up property inside the Beltway. But building out in the suburbs continues to be cheaper for developers and there's less nimbyism to contend with. These projects may be successful. But if the urban trend continues to pick up stream, those projects may be dead on arrival and available for low-income residents to fill. Perhaps BRT can buy them some time until more permanent transit is available.

[DC Bossman]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I've been reading a few books on suburbia and urbanism and there is a consensus that there is a shift toward cities and those areas with access to mass transit. You may be seeing what is the beginning affects of this shift. Far out suburbs are expected to lose their appeal over the coming decades and unfortunately that may mean that they deteriorate from their heydays in the 80's and 90s. This may be the case for a lot of suburbs outside of the beltway.

Can you share the titles of some of these books suggesting the possible shift towards cities/mass transit