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Old 11-26-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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They did have a good variety of stores.

My wife and I also complained about the food options. Expecting people to halt shopping and go to NH, then return, is a bit ridiculous.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by googleme View Post
I was at the outlet opening day from 9:30 to 4pm. The one glaring omission was more food options. We grabbed some Starbucks and an Auntie Annie pretzel upon arrival and after many hours of shopping were hungry but were not done shopping. Our only option was Johnny Rockets and a ChickFilA stand both of which had long lines since they were the only options on site. We ended up waiting in line for Johnny Rockets which could seat maybe 35 patrons comfortably inside. We debated going to the Harbor to eat but did not feel like waiting for the shuttle back to our car, then aging to park at NH then parking again and shuttling back to Tanger. Too much hassle as I imagine it will be for others who just want to grab a bite in the midst of their shopping. Maybe the ChickFilA stands will be transforming into their own fixed tore on site?

My other observation was that they are still clearing land right next to Tanger on the left as you go towards the residential neighborhood. Right next to an abandoned school. What is that space for?

I also saw the tribute to Salubria that they had in honor of the historic location that was torn down. The plaque left out the full back story of what happened there. Just that there were Indian relics on the land, John Bayne owned the property and how they trained their slaves to grown certain things and it redirects people to visit the not yet open heritage center on site and other historic locations nearby like Broad Creek etc.

Michael Kors and Coach are not my thing but they had continuous lines and they were only letting a few people in at a time. I was happy to see lots of clothing stores that I shop at in NoVa for my kids clothes there so will be happy to see my tax money finally stay in the state.

I always thought that the lack of food options was a mis-step. I guess they figured that the Harbor would be a viable option for those that wanted to really eat. Don't think the patrons are on the same page with that one. They do have the ability to add 12,000 sf more to the center on building 600 (where American Eagle sits) so one or more of the businesses in that space could be food related. They will also be building a hotel and a small retail center across the street. Both of them should have some dining options..
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:10 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
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Originally Posted by UrbanScholar View Post
I always thought that the lack of food options was a mis-step. I guess they figured that the Harbor would be a viable option for those that wanted to really eat. Don't think the patrons are on the same page with that one. They do have the ability to add 12,000 sf more to the center on building 600 (where American Eagle sits) so one or more of the businesses in that space could be food related. They will also be building a hotel and a small retail center across the street. Both of them should have some dining options..
A food court would be nice. But I could see how that wouldn't foster a profitable partnership between NH and Tanger. Recall that the Petersons are part owners. If people never had to go to NH to eat while shopping at Tanger, which would probably be cheaper, wouldn't that be bad for NH? I think Tanger was planned to have no dining options so that NH would be the only option. Which makes perfect business sense. If you're at NH and you want to shop, go to Tanger. If you're at Tanger and you want to eat, go to NH.

Think of it as an actual resort. When we were in the Dominican Republic at one of those large resorts, the food options were usually in a central location where you had to catch a cart or a ride from your room to have dinner. Granted it wasn't as far as NH is from Tanger. But if you take the area as a whole and look at it as one beg resort, I could see how that works.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:18 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
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There should be an arcade or a Dave & Busters at NH. I think that would be awesome. Usually there's a place for kids and young adults to hang out at a waterfront resort.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
A food court would be nice. But I could see how that wouldn't foster a profitable partnership between NH and Tanger. Recall that the Petersons are part owners. If people never had to go to NH to eat while shopping at Tanger, which would probably be cheaper, wouldn't that be bad for NH? I think Tanger was planned to have no dining options so that NH would be the only option. Which makes perfect business sense. If you're at NH and you want to shop, go to Tanger. If you're at Tanger and you want to eat, go to NH.

Think of it as an actual resort. When we were in the Dominican Republic at one of those large resorts, the food options were usually in a central location where you had to catch a cart or a ride from your room to have dinner. Granted it wasn't as far as NH is from Tanger. But if you take the area as a whole and look at it as one beg resort, I could see how that works.
Agreed. I am sure that was/is there strategy. I just don't think that the average patron gets that strategy but, like with anything, I am sure they will adjust.

We must have gone to the same resort because I had to do the same thing at the resort where I stayed.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
There should be an arcade or a Dave & Busters at NH. I think that would be awesome. Usually there's a place for kids and young adults to hang out at a waterfront resort.
You should submit a suggestion to the community relations poc. The only problem that I see with D&B is that it may draw a close comparison to Anne Arundel Mills with the outlet, possible casino, etc.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Some T-1 Line
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Not sure what you mean here. Tanger has 85 pure retail stores. NH has maybe 15? This is obvious. NH was never meant to be a shopping destination. It is more of a resort/entertainment district.
Hopefully, this won't turn into an argument, but we can agree to disagree. I think those heavily invested (emotionally, financially, otherwise) in NH continually fall back on the "it's a destination" remark. Someone else could make the argument that it is more of a residential area. But in the end, it is a mixed-use development, and as a mixed-use development I am simply commenting on the retail aspect of NH's mixed-use. Maybe if/when MGM comes to NH, then being a destination/resort/entertainment district will be realized, but for now it is merely an MUD that attempts to capture the overflow of people visiting Washington, DC...which is a true destination area.

But, just as a hypothetical, if NH wants to brand themselves as a destination then maybe NH should be novelty stores and they should leave the fashion to Tanger.

Yes, Tanger has more stores in relation to NH. However, that still doesn't take away from the fact that NH chose to venture into the retail realm - as MUDs do - and will need to manage the relationship between Tanger and NH so that they don't cannibalize itself like Donald Trump and his Taj Mahal experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
I disagree with those that says there isn't enough parking...
In my original post, I took a passive aggressive approach to disagreeing that there wasn't enough parking as I think that there is, but did not want to tick anyone off. So, I agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
This is odd. My wife and I went there to eat last night at around 9:30pm and there were plenty of people walking around. No, they weren't shoulder-to-shoulder, but I had to stop to let people cross at just about every crosswalk. I'm not sure what people expect NH to be. I've been to Old Town Alexandria and have walked into empty stores. Aside from the fact that OTA has more offices and mid-day patrons, it can still seem too "empty" to some. Also, there are periods where there are conferences and the place is packed. My wife and I went to watch a football game a few weeks ago in the sports grill at the Gaylord and Charming Charlies was packed. So, there will be waves of activity and waves of non-activity. This happens in most places.

For example, my wife and I went to Myrtle Beach which is a major conference and resort area. We went to their popular Broadway at the Beach more than once on our 7 day vacation in October and it was a ghost town every time we went. If we had never been during the height of tourism, then we would suspect that this entertainment district was about to shut down. But it's just their off-season.

Once the apartments in NH come online, MGM, and other offices, you'll see more foot traffic, but there will still be times where you'll wonder where everyone is. I've been to downtown Baltimore at the Inner Harbor and it has been empty at times. Especially in the winter. Not too many people go for strolls when its 40 degrees outside. The restaurant we went to last night at NH was packed. So, there were people there.
I am a Myrtle Beach (MB) frequenter as well and I understand what you are saying. However, as you may know, Broadway at the Beach is more of a novelty area. Most (estimate of 90+%) of those stores are novelty stores. The boutiques that they do have, if any, are more price friendly than NH or have brand recognition. Broadway does not charge for parking and has much more offerings in terms of fun, entertainment, shopping and eating than NH. Broadway is NH on steroids except they have one hotel on the premise whereas NH has like six. There have been times when I wanted to shop at NH's grocery (they carry Ezekial cereal that I get at Whole Foods or Moms) or wanted to hit Baja for something to eat, but found it not rational or beneficial to my blood pressure to drive there and pay to park for a five minute exchange. Thus, I found it "rational" to spend more in mileage and gas to go to Whole Foods, Moms or Jersey Mike's and Moe's just because of the garage and meter experience. And, to justify the additional drive, I'd hit a few other stores in the complex. I think for me and others, It's hard to drive to a complex, pay to park, and walk to your destination all for one store, be it Charming Charlie's, Nando's or whomever. Also, MB has 2 Tangers, 1 mall and at least one other strip mall - in addition to Barefoot Landing - within its perimeter and all co-exist. In fact, MB is a season town; thus, after Labor Day, the city population drops off to pretty much just the residents. However, Broadway makes enough from April to September to sustain itself during the off-peak. I can't see NH getting the tourist traction that MB gets. If they do...fine. Hopefully, Tanger (and MGM?) will be the procuring cause for the type of stores that NH management would like to get into NH as well as future development in the area, which I am confident it will.

Again, I had spoken to several of the business owners, managers and employees at NH and their concerns were revenue and Tanger. Charming Charlie's will make it because, like you said, when you have a good product people will seek you out, but the rest of those stores are hit or miss (for now). Notice, Swarovski left NH but re-emerged in Tanger.

If I were a retailer or resident at NH, I wouldn't want to hear "we don't do retail, we are an entertainment destination". Because if that were management's approach to NH, I'd be ticked off that they sold me on the idea of renting in the complex as opposed to leasing exclusively to Chuck E. Cheese, Pump It Up, opening up Cameron Run at National Harbor (or should I say Great Waves), and building a go-kart track somewhere on the premises. Then, it would be a destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
That architecture is nice and I like the fact that they have covers over the corridors so that you can be protected from the elements. It was unusually warm yesterday. I imagine if it was colder, there would have been a smaller turnout.
AGREED! I think, overall, we all want to see the area and NH's entire portfolio - Rivertowne included - succeed. Again, I am proud of them for what they have accomplished, and proud of the community for supporting it. I just have my concerns and hopefully there is a plan in place (that I'm not privy to) to mitigate the risks.

I appreciate your comments to my quote, adelphi. You make some good points, I'm just providing a constructive rebuttal. Be well.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:50 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,532,096 times
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Originally Posted by ajsmith365 View Post
Hopefully, this won't turn into an argument, but we can agree to disagree. I think those heavily invested (emotionally, financially, otherwise) in NH continually fall back on the "it's a destination" remark. Someone else could make the argument that it is more of a residential area. But in the end, it is a mixed-use development, and as a mixed-use development I am simply commenting on the retail aspect of NH's mixed-use. Maybe if/when MGM comes to NH, then being a destination/resort/entertainment district will be realized, but for now it is merely an MUD that attempts to capture the overflow of people visiting Washington, DC...which is a true destination area.
Why would you think this would turn into an argument? lol I think I'm pretty reasonable when it comes to these discussions.

You are correct. Technically speaking, NH is a MUD. The reason why I use the word, "destination" is because NH doesn't attract just locals. Yes, most of those visitors may be visiting DC as their main attraction, but I think NH offers a destination within DC's sphere of attraction. Also, when I look at Gaylord, Wyndham Resorts, etc, it screams to me a MUD where people from outside of the local area choose to stay. With the addition of MGM, you're now adding patrons that are coming to NH regardless of DC up the river. Thus it becomes a destination that feeds off a destination.

In the end, isn't Broadway at the Beach just another outdoor mall with restaurants where people go when they visit the real attraction which is the beach? I see a lot of parallels besides the parking and the novelty shops.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:02 PM
 
2,429 posts, read 3,559,340 times
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Why would you think this would turn into an argument? lol I think I'm pretty reasonable when it comes to these discussions.

You are correct. Technically speaking, NH is a MUD. The reason why I use the word, "destination" is because NH doesn't attract just locals. Yes, most of those visitors may be visiting DC as their main attraction, but I think NH offers a destination within DC's sphere of attraction. Also, when I look at Gaylord, Wyndham Resorts, etc, it screams to me a MUD where people from outside of the local area choose to stay. With the addition of MGM, you're now adding patrons that are coming to NH regardless of DC up the river. Thus it becomes a destination that feeds off a destination.

In the end, isn't Broadway at the Beach just another outdoor mall with restaurants where people go when they visit the real attraction which is the beach? I see a lot of parallels besides the parking and the novelty shops.
True but Peterson, the county and the state identifies it as that also. Some people not from the area consider it to be as well. Whether it is or isn't can be a point of debate but at the very minimum it is an attraction for the state.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
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Originally Posted by UrbanScholar View Post
True but Peterson, the county and the state identifies it as that also. Some people not from the area consider it to be as well. Whether it is or isn't can be a point of debate but at the very minimum it is an attraction for the state.
I would go further and say that it is a regional destination much like Baltimore's Inner Harbor. Not just for Maryland, but for DC and NoVa as well. It would be interesting to see just how far people will travel to go to NH. Do they come as far as Dale City, Ashburn, Baltimore? Or more local such as Alexandria, DC, and MoCo/PGC?

I do agree that people aren't flying across the county to visit NH. Only MGM could draw that type of patron to NH.
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