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Old 11-24-2013, 01:27 PM
 
2,429 posts, read 3,558,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Rock View Post
They say the DC area is "under retailed", go figure. Finally, I guess, retailers nationwide have discovered DC all of a sudden. I'm not sure what took so long. Retail IS hot, and so is medical space.

What I see as a trend, and more disturbing, is that tenants are discovering that they do not need tons of office space. They can accomplish what they need to do in less space. Therefore, if a tenant is renewing or relocating, they typically reduce the size of their footprint. Leaving behind more space that property owners have problems releasing…..In addition, there is a flight to quality, leaving behind old antiquated space for new and improved space near more amenities. Also, there is this live, work, play mentality where tenants want to be near stores, restaurants, transportation and the like.

They are not accepting a “one off” building or buildings on a street with no amenities and far from major roads and Metro.
Yeah I remember reading that and thinking the same thing. The problem with office space is going to compound as both the public and private sector decrease their footprint for a smaller workforce and/or teleworking.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:47 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 687,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
This is the attitude that I was trying to avoid. Why not just say you disagree with the sentiments being made here. This is how a lot of threads in this section break down because people become overly defensive. Your comment is ridiculous and doesn't even address the merits of anything being discussed here.

The problem is, National Harbor is being marketed like it's going to answer all of PG County's problems. Again look at the realities, the largest employer in Prince George's County in the past five years is, the National Harbor when it opened. Since it opened, the next time the county received a sizable amount of jobs is the opening of Tanger. Now of course we're looking at the casino at National Harbor (presumably), being the next place to provide jobs. The only thing that I have been saying is, the county needs more diversity in the type of jobs that it is getting. Other parts of the region can focus on retail because they have more white collar jobs available as is. The problem is in PG, it is expected that the county 'competes' with other counties for quality retail, restaurants and the works but the county isn't attracting the type of residents who would be more likely to patronize these type of developments.

If you don't elect creative people that understand how to build industry, you're going to get casinos and retail centers. 25 years ago, Montgomery County brought in folks that knew how to build a biotech sector, based on the many federal agencies that had already been in the area. That being NIH, FDA and the like. The State finally caught on and now it produces high paying jobs. Casinos are just a big cop-out, as far as I’m concerned. Also, National Harbor just fell in PG's lap, that site was sitting there for decades before Peterson decided to do something about it.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:00 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,530,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
The problem is, National Harbor is being marketed like it's going to answer all of PG County's problems.
False. That's your opinion. Funny the whole county hasn't dropped every effort to encourage economic growth elsewhere simply because NH exists. Most of us realize that one project does not level the playing field. Some people will never accept positive changes in PGC. It's like Fox Cable News is to democrats. They can do no right. Any county would be proud of a project like NH and it does benefit the county as well as the state in terms of tourism. It needs to be marketed as a state and local hot spot. States and counties always try to improve tourism. I'm not sure why this is all of a sudden a problem for PGC.

Quote:
Again look at the realities, the largest employer in Prince George's County in the past five years is, the National Harbor when it opened.
False. The largest employer is still UMD at 17,000+ followed by Andrews Air Force Base 13,500, the IRS, the Census Bureau, and UPS. By now, National Harbor has probably passed the NASA at 3,171 as the 6th largest employer (Gaylord has only 1,800). And when MGM comes, it STILL won't be the county's largest employer.

Quote:
Since it opened, the next time the county received a sizable amount of jobs is the opening of Tanger.
And your point is? PGC residents with MONEY have been asking for upscale retail options and the county delivered. What's the issue here? Sounds like a win/win for everybody. Last time I checked, opening a mall in a county was never seen as a bad thing. But the Washington Post spin doctors like to spin it into their normal "PGC is the black sheep of the DC area" manner. Some people here like to eat that up.

Quote:
Now of course we're looking at the casino at National Harbor (presumably), being the next place to provide jobs.
Really? So you forecast that in 3 years the county can't add other jobs? That the entire county is waiting with bated breath for MGM to offer the only future job openings? Nevermind that the FBI can potentially bring triple the number of jobs? And that the research hospital will add hundreds more. But no, there's a concern because PGC had the nerve to open an outlet mall FIRST. This fake concern is laughable and predictable.

Quote:
The only thing that I have been saying is, the county needs more diversity in the type of jobs that it is getting.
This point is well known and has been discussed ad nausea in the casino thread where you made the same arguments about how bad casino jobs are for the county. I mean a few years ago, there were threads on the lack of acceptable retail options, now that those options are growing, there's a problem. You make it sound as if PGC has added 5 outlet malls, two casinos, and 50 hotels in the past 5 years. This is ONE entertainment/retail district that is at an awesome location giving the state of Maryland two great harbors. I guarantee that if the county added 5,000 white-collar jobs, there would be a thread about there being nowhere for them to shop or eat. Just because the retail sector is growing first doesn't mean that the county is now not concerned with growing its white-collar jobs base. Let's be "pragmatic."

Quote:
Other parts of the region can focus on retail because they have more white collar jobs available as is.
False. Other parts of the region already have sufficient retail options for their populations. That's why they don't focus on retail. They have the best of both worlds. There has been a historical lack of retail options in PGC and the residents have spoken for years about it. Who wants to live where they don't have nice places to shop and eat? Does it matter if retail comes first? That's what employees want right? Again, I see no problem here.

Quote:
The problem is in PG, it is expected that the county 'competes' with other counties for quality retail, restaurants and the works but the county isn't attracting the type of residents who would be more likely to patronize these type of developments.
Does it need to attract the type of residents who would patronize these establishments? Those types of residents have been here for decades crying and complaining about the very thing you say PGC doesn't need more of. The pent up demand has been here for decades. Hence the packed opening at Tanger. There is still not enough retail to meet demand in this county.

But wait, only poor people live in PGC right? So, how could they ever afford to shop at the same stores at NH that they've been shopping at in NoVa and DC for decades?

Different thread, same discussion. Next.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,530,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Rock View Post
If you don't elect creative people that understand how to build industry, you're going to get casinos and retail centers. 25 years ago, Montgomery County brought in folks that knew how to build a biotech sector, based on the many federal agencies that had already been in the area. That being NIH, FDA and the like.
You turned a disadvantage into a lack of creativity. You are correct in that the NIH and the FDA helped to foster the biotech corridor. Just like the Pentagon helped to foster the defense industry in NoVa. Let's see what PGC has. Andrews AFB. Not much spin off potential there. Census Bureau. Statistics contractors? The IRS. Tax software industry maybe? NASA. There is opportunity there, but the Feds have cut NASA's budget. The FBI is promising in the forensics industry realm.

Personally I think the best shot for PGC is the NSA and cyber security. There is room for more growth in the software/hardware industry. I can see where UMD can be a catalyst for start-ups that may choose to locate between the NSA, UMD, and potentially the FBI.

It's always easy to provide examples of counties who have enjoyed the presence of agencies that can create private large sector industries. But again, it is well known that the GSA has favored other jurisdictions over PGC for these types of agencies. I think it is unfair for those to expect PGC to grow an industry from the ground up in these economic times without the help from the government that other counties have enjoyed since the 50s.

Quote:
Casinos are just a big cop-out, as far as I’m concerned.
I disagree. What's wrong with a viable tourism industry to supplement revenue? I think any county in the country would look at that statement with curiosity and would ask why not grow tourism.

Quote:
Also, National Harbor just fell in PG's lap, that site was sitting there for decades before Peterson decided to do something about it.
I'm not so sure NH fell out of the sky being planned for decades.

Quote:
By 2008 when the first part of National Harbor opened, the concept of suburban town centers was tried and true. But developers have been trying to build a town center there since the mid 1980s. When they started, it was the most progressive of ideas.
The original plan for Port America dates from 1987.
Read more: National Harbor's colossal never-built skyscraper - Greater Greater Washington
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:01 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,530,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanScholar View Post
Yeah I remember reading that and thinking the same thing. The problem with office space is going to compound as both the public and private sector decrease their footprint for a smaller workforce and/or teleworking.

I agree. Great points.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:27 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,079 posts, read 9,530,476 times
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Hmmmm. Not one word about retail or NH in this article about the economic development town hall.

Quote:
Prince George’s County officials told residents during a town hall meeting this week that the county would continue to target key industries as a means to increase revenue and expand the county’s commercial tax base.
County council members joined senior officials in the county government to give residents an update on the region’s economic development strategic plan during a town hall meeting at Suitland High School in District Heights on Monday night. Officials said they would pursue opportunities with the federal government, private sector businesses, and health and life services to ensure growth in the county.
Read more: P.G. County Narrows Economic Development Focus | Washington Informer | African American newspaper, Washington D.C.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,950,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
False. That's your opinion. Funny the whole county hasn't dropped every effort to encourage economic growth elsewhere simply because NH exists. Most of us realize that one project does not level the playing field. Some people will never accept positive changes in PGC. It's like Fox Cable News is to democrats. They can do no right. Any county would be proud of a project like NH and it does benefit the county as well as the state in terms of tourism. It needs to be marketed as a state and local hot spot. States and counties always try to improve tourism. I'm not sure why this is all of a sudden a problem for PGC.
You are missing the point. Where else in the county has the county successfully obtained a substantial amount of jobs recently besides National Harbor?

It's not about what they are 'trying' to do, it's about what they have accomplished. I wait for your answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
False. The largest employer is still UMD at 17,000+ followed by Andrews Air Force Base 13,500, the IRS, the Census Bureau, and UPS. By now, National Harbor has probably passed the NASA at 3,171 as the 6th largest employer (Gaylord has only 1,800). And when MGM comes, it STILL won't be the county's largest employer.
Reading is truly, truly fundamental. I didn't say "the largest employer", I said:

Quote:
Again look at the realities, the largest employer in Prince George's County in the past five years is, the National Harbor when it opened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
And your point is? PGC residents with MONEY have been asking for upscale retail options and the county delivered. What's the issue here? Sounds like a win/win for everybody. Last time I checked, opening a mall in a county was never seen as a bad thing. But the Washington Post spin doctors like to spin it into their normal "PGC is the black sheep of the DC area" manner. Some people here like to eat that up.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I didn't argue anything about the outlet center. I am showing how the county didn't have any substantial job addition between the National Harbor opening and Tanger Opening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Really? So you forecast that in 3 years the county can't add other jobs? That the entire county is waiting with bated breath for MGM to offer the only future job openings? Nevermind that the FBI can potentially bring triple the number of jobs? And that the research hospital will add hundreds more. But no, there's a concern because PGC had the nerve to open an outlet mall FIRST. This fake concern is laughable and predictable.
Even if the county were to get a place today to sign on to build a complex in PG, the casino is likely going to be built first since it's already on the books and is essentially going to be built before anything else is even put into motion. This isn't a suggestion about the county not being able to get other jobs, this is just dealing with what is in the pipeline right now and what is likely to come to fruition first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
This point is well known and has been discussed ad nausea in the casino thread where you made the same arguments about how bad casino jobs are for the county. I mean a few years ago, there were threads on the lack of acceptable retail options, now that those options are growing, there's a problem. You make it sound as if PGC has added 5 outlet malls, two casinos, and 50 hotels in the past 5 years. This is ONE entertainment/retail district that is at an awesome location giving the state of Maryland two great harbors. I guarantee that if the county added 5,000 white-collar jobs, there would be a thread about there being nowhere for them to shop or eat. Just because the retail sector is growing first doesn't mean that the county is now not concerned with growing its white-collar jobs base. Let's be "pragmatic."
??????????????????????

In your fantasy world there would be a thread like that. I haven't even complained about the outlet mall. I think it's great actually. I don't like the infrastructure around it and I also think that we have more than enough retail jobs. If you added the outlet center and you had white collar jobs too, then it's sounds great, but when you say oh you're adding casino jobs, then yes I have an issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
False. Other parts of the region already have sufficient retail options for their populations. That's why they don't focus on retail. They have the best of both worlds. There has been a historical lack of retail options in PGC and the residents have spoken for years about it. Who wants to live where they don't have nice places to shop and eat? Does it matter if retail comes first? That's what employees want right? Again, I see no problem here.
Not entirely true. Loudoun County still has room for a lot more retail. They are the wealthiest county in the nation and there really isn't a lot of shopping within their county that lines up with their population (i.e. The Galleria in Fairfax). There is a large part of Loudoun County that has yet to be developed and they have the population to support it. The eastern side of the county has plenty but as you go west, it become very rural. That is why they have so many projects on the table right now. The only county that has sufficient retail is Fairfax and even parts of Fairfax is still lacking. Montgomery County is even trying to get more retail. There are places with room to expand.

PG has had retail, but has lost out on some of it because of a lack of support, management and crime. Let's not forget the number of projects like Capital Plaza, Landover Mall, and Laurel Mall for example. PG hasn't always lacked retail, it has lacked successful retail. If you look at PG 20 years ago compared to Loudoun County for example, PG was way, way more developed than Loudoun County.

Did you know prior to 1998, Loudoun County didn't even have a mall, indoor or out? Yet PG had several during that time. Again is it a lack of retail or unsuccessful retail? PG has more retail than some parts of the area, the problem has been that it has been often times redundant and doesn't addressed the needs of communities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Does it need to attract the type of residents who would patronize these establishments? Those types of residents have been here for decades crying and complaining about the very thing you say PGC doesn't need more of. The pent up demand has been here for decades. Hence the packed opening at Tanger. There is still not enough retail to meet demand in this county.

But wait, only poor people live in PGC right? So, how could they ever afford to shop at the same stores at NH that they've been shopping at in NoVa and DC for decades?

Different thread, same discussion. Next.
They are in PG, but they aren't in PG to the same degree as other places. It's like a child getting a 71 on a test, while the other kids got above 90 and the kid getting a 71 expecting to get an A like the rest. If PG wants to raise the stakes and to be able to get similar retail as other counties. I think it's smart, but you have to be realistic. PG County is the poorest county in the region, in order to demand more upscale retail, the county will more than likely have to find ways to attract higher income residents, not lower income. If you want to attract lower income residents, then how do you convince these businesses that they can be just as successful? There are places like Charles, Calvert and St. Mary's County who have higher median incomes than PG and they aren't exactly ringing in upscale either. PG is doing well, but I just don't see how adding low income jobs is going to help the overall vision.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:57 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,950,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Hmmmm. Not one word about retail or NH in this article about the economic development town hall.



Read more: P.G. County Narrows Economic Development Focus | Washington Informer | African American newspaper, Washington D.C.
Great when that translate to ACTUAL jobs, post that too. Thanks.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a politician tell us they are going to bring jobs....
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:05 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,125 posts, read 13,950,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Rock View Post
If you don't elect creative people that understand how to build industry, you're going to get casinos and retail centers. 25 years ago, Montgomery County brought in folks that knew how to build a biotech sector, based on the many federal agencies that had already been in the area. That being NIH, FDA and the like. The State finally caught on and now it produces high paying jobs. Casinos are just a big cop-out, as far as I’m concerned. Also, National Harbor just fell in PG's lap, that site was sitting there for decades before Peterson decided to do something about it.
Agreed. Even when Baker was elected he was against casinos but he talked about getting jobs. So if he was for getting jobs, then what was his plan before the casinos? It definitely seems like a lack of creativity.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:36 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
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No mention of retail.

Quote:
GREENBELT, Md. (AP) -- NASA and the state of Maryland are striking a technology transfer deal aimed at boosting the state's appeal to the high-tech industry. U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski's office says Monday's signing of a memorandum of understanding at the Goddard Space Flight Center will enable future NASA missions and help ensure Maryland's economic future. Technology transfer agreements help turn research discoveries into marketable products. The Goddard center houses the nation's largest organization of scientists, engineers and technologists developing spacecraft, instruments and technology for space exploration.
Read more: Maryland News - WBFF FoxBaltimore

NASA, State of Maryland to Sign MOU on New Tech Transfer Effort | NASA
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