Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is an interesting discussion because what I am observing is that the people who aren't native to the DC region have a much different perspective than some of us that are native to this area. Don't get me wrong, I don't think PG County is a cesspool, but honestly growing up in this area more than likely makes people like me take things in this area for granted more than others. I don't necessarily see the wealthy black people driving around as a big deal because to some extent I probably have been desensitize to the idea that other parts of the country do not have as many successful blacks like we do in our region. I believe that is one of the reasons why when I went away to school in NC that people were amazed that I was from PG and they used to ask me all types of questions about PG. To many in the south it was the antithesis of where they grew up. Some only grew up in predominantly white towns or some grew up poor and around other poor blacks, so just the thought of a place where there were wealthy black people was amazing to them.
What is my point? I think perspective is key in how these areas are perceived. Admittedly I do not know much about Ferguson, MO or even the St. Louis area in general. To me although this area may not be as divided racially as much as that area, as some of you have explained, to me, I still see this area being very much divided racially. When I first started going to school in PG, most of my classmates were white. By the time I got to high school, it was rare to have more than 5 white classmates in any of my classes. White flight happened in a major way here in the 90s and many white people fled the county. Now you look at the make up of our area, there is this perception that, for the most part, blacks tend to stay in MD, and whites stay in VA. Of course you have places like Montgomery County that mixes both, and you also have a few places in VA like Alexandria, Lorton, Woodbridge, and Manassas, but honestly culturally MD and parts of DC are much more culturally different than NoVA.
There are many people on here and many friends that I have in MD, that simply do not feel the need to come into VA, and there are many people in VA who do not feel the need come into MD. I certainly don't think it's as extreme as some of the examples given in this thread, but racial divide is definitely there in our area. I always find it strange when you have black people who move to this area who will look at PG County and will never consider any other parts of the area. I feel as though those individuals, just as you all have explained, have brought the mentality that they had in their home areas and projected here. Then of course you have those who simply see PG as an anomaly.
I guess what I am saying is what is considered good or bad is all depending on where you come from and what you grew up accustomed to. If you grew up in a place with the kind of racial tension that the midwest apparently has then you will see PG as a less extreme case, but for me, I see it just like any other place in this country with a large population of black people. You will seemingly always have black people who simply do not trust cops or white people. PG is not immune to that. I honestly believe if what happened in Ferguson happened somewhere in PG, there would be a similar reaction. Probably not as extreme. Probably not as violent but similar nonetheless. Why do I feel that way? Because despite having more educated people and perhaps people who have different lifestyles than those in the midwest, many of the black residents in PG share similar political views and cultural values as those in Ferguson. You have black people who work with more whites here, but many of those black people would likely not live around those same workers and to be honest, vice versa. That, to me, doesn't make our race relations very much different, other than the degree to how much it exist. Curious to know what you all think about what I said.
I also want to add a statistic that I think kind of illustrates my point. Here is the census numbers from 2000 to 2010 for Ferguson and also for PG:
PG
2000 - 62.7% Black, 27.04% White
2010 - 64.5% Black, 19.2% White
Ferguson
2000 - 52.41% Black, 44.75% White
2010 - 67.4% Black, 29.3% White
As you can see both places have had significant population shifts racially. Of course Ferguson is way, way more extreme, but that's the point I was making. That PG certainly has similar racial issues but not to the same degree.
And let me point out, that I am not saying that all black people will act like this no matter where they are, but I am saying that I don't think this region's racial tension and the perception of racism is much different than other parts of the country, but that doesn't mean the exact same thing will happen.
Let's be honest, the images on TV that we see on a day-to-day basis have a lasting impact on people's perception of black people. Do you believe situations like looting from the Michael Brown shooting, or from Hurricane Katrina, just a name a couple of recent incidents, impact businesses perception of opening up in the black community? How harmful do you think those type of situations can be to places like PG that has a large black population?
Absolutely. Honestly, when haven't such occurrences NOT had that kind of impact?
Take discriminatory restaurant seating and service (outside of places with exclusive black clientele). This has been happening long before I was born and is alive and well today, even if you have a black person managing the place. Where did that come from?
It will take many years for these kinds of perceptions to change and each situation like the one in Missouri is a step backward.
Robbed a store (using strong arm forces elevates it above theft), assaulted a police office, was shot as a result of a struggle (how many shots and if shot when running are not yet known).
I'd say the lesson here is don't rob stores and assault the police.
Does the looting and media fire storm impact views of black communities nationwide? You betcha.
Does the image of young black frat brothers cleaning up after the looting impact your views of black communities nationwide? Does the image of black men lining up in front of the doors of some of the stores that were being looted to keep people from entering, and telling them that they're better than that impact your views of black communities nationwide? Does the image of the vast majority of the people participating in peaceful protest and lawful assembly impact your views of black communities? Does the leadership of Capt. Ron Johnson who has been a consummate example of not only a professional member of law enforcement, but also a thoughtful, kind, and intelligent black man impact your views of black people? Do you even comprehend the need for the "media firestorm?" Do you understand why incidents like this need to be shown beyond the local community, so a spotlight can be placed on what continues to happen to young black men across this country? Do you not understand why black people, especially young black men, are sick of being treated as if their lives have no value? If not, if the only thing you seem to be able to take from this entire situation is an image of negativity and looting by a very small minority of people, then you're simply relying on images that reinforce your own confirmation bias and choosing to remain willfully ignorant about the real issue at hand. You betcha.
Does the image of young black frat brothers cleaning up after the looting impact your views of black communities nationwide? Does the image of black men lining up in front of the doors of some of the stores that were being looted to keep people from entering, and telling them that they're better than that impact your views of black communities nationwide? Does the image of the vast majority of the people participating in peaceful protest and lawful assembly impact your views of black communities? Does the leadership of Capt. Ron Johnson who has been a consummate example of not only a professional member of law enforcement, but also a thoughtful, kind, and intelligent black man impact your views of black people? Do you even comprehend the need for the "media firestorm?" Do you understand why incidents like this need to be shown beyond the local community, so a spotlight can be placed on what continues to happen to young black men across this country? Do you not understand why black people, especially young black men, are sick of being treated as if their lives have no value? If not, if the only thing you seem to be able to take from this entire situation is an image of negativity and looting by a very small minority of people, then you're simply relying on images that reinforce your own confirmation bias and choosing to remain willfully ignorant about the real issue at hand. You betcha.
How many media sources are willing to show the images you are talking about? One thing that I want to see in the black community more is the acknowledgement that the same media outlets that are largely supported by the black community, contribute to the lack of positives images that you are showing here. Media outlets like BET and TVOne rarely ever show people cleaning up their streets or helping the youth in their community. If you really want to send a message to those media sources as well as news media sources like CNN and MSNBC and others, then those places should be protested, because those the main media sources that are supported by black people that still report on negative images like this because it drives ratings.
And as far as this being a racial thing. I honestly think it's premature to determine that. I do believe that the police went over bounds, but how do we know that it was a racially motivated incident? I think we need more details to draw the conclusion, but even still it shouldn't matter what the race is of this young man, any police officers that is shooting someone that is not a threat to them, affects all of us, regardless of race. Check this story out:
How many media sources are willing to show the images you are talking about? One thing that I want to see in the black community more is the acknowledgement that the same media outlets that are largely supported by the black community, contribute to the lack of positives images that you are showing here. Media outlets like BET and TVOne rarely ever show people cleaning up their streets or helping the youth in their community. If you really want to send a message to those media sources as well as news media sources like CNN and MSNBC and others, then those places should be protested, because those the main media sources that are supported by black people that still report on negative images like this because it drives ratings.
And as far as this being a racial thing. I honestly think it's premature to determine that. I do believe that the police went over bounds, but how do we know that it was a racially motivated incident? I think we need more details to draw the conclusion, but even still it shouldn't matter what the race is of this young man, any police officers that is shooting someone that is not a threat to them, affects all of us, regardless of race. Check this story out:
Excuse me? First of all, I don't watch BET or TVOne, so please don't make assumptions about which media outlets I do or do not support. I originally saw the picture I posted on a mainstream media outlet, so it's not that hard to find unless you're only interested in focusing on the negative. Also, don't try to school me on what you think I should be doing as a black person to "send a message to those media sources," just because you also happen to be black. You don't know the first thing about me nor what efforts I personally support. You are making foolish assumptions. All black people don't watch BET and TVOne. And some of us don't rely solely on CNN and MSNBC to stay informed about what's happening in the world.
You can believe whatever you like regarding race and how it did or did not impact this particular case. In case you didn't notice, my post was in direct response to the poster who made a comment about how the images of looting impacted his views of black communities nationwide. He brought up race, hence my response included the aspect of race. I also was not referring to this one specific incident when I mentioned how some people do not value black lives, as I clearly stated a spotlight needed to be placed on what continues to happen to black men across this country. So obviously I'm not just speaking about Ferguson.
I clearly understand that the issue of police brutality affects everyone regardless of race. However, I am not naive enough to pretend that race never plays a role in these cases, and considering I am a black person I will speak out on behalf of what I see happening in my own community regardless of whether you like it or not. All of this "well, let's not talk about race just yet" is pure foolishness. This is not an isolated incident, and I'm not going to be hushed as if I'm a child just because the topic makes some people uncomfortable. Sometimes in order to deliver a message, you simply have to start where you are. And this happens to be where we are at this point in time. It is a topic that needs to be addressed, and even if you think race didn't play a role in this particular case, it can still be utilized as a starting point for at least beginning to have that discussion. Certainly no person can claim that race is never an issue in these cases unless they are being extremely intellectually dishonest.
I don't appreciate the tone of your post. I'm a grown woman who has experienced life as a black person for all the decades I've been alive. I'm not some young 20something with no first hand experience dealing with these types of issues. What's happening now is nothing new. There are just more eyes on it, which is often what it takes to get a dialogue started. Don't for a second feel like you somehow need to school me on what my personal responsibilities are to make a positive impact in my community. I could tell you personal stories of what I have experienced and witnessed in my own life, having lived in various different areas throughout this country. I don't have to go digging up random articles on the Internet to make a point.
Last edited by gibbsnm; 08-18-2014 at 07:51 AM..
Reason: clarification
How many media sources are willing to show the images you are talking about? One thing that I want to see in the black community more is the acknowledgement that the same media outlets that are largely supported by the black community, contribute to the lack of positives images that you are showing here. Media outlets like BET and TVOne rarely ever show people cleaning up their streets or helping the youth in their community. If you really want to send a message to those media sources as well as news media sources like CNN and MSNBC and others, then those places should be protested, because those the main media sources that are supported by black people that still report on negative images like this because it drives ratings.
And as far as this being a racial thing. I honestly think it's premature to determine that. I do believe that the police went over bounds, but how do we know that it was a racially motivated incident? I think we need more details to draw the conclusion, but even still it shouldn't matter what the race is of this young man, any police officers that is shooting someone that is not a threat to them, affects all of us, regardless of race. Check this story out:
For the record, Ferguson's police department has a history of racism against blacks and particularly profiling black men/boys. That echoes the ongoing challenges that Blacks face in that area. That's something that is well known locally but would not be reported nationally. Especially given the current situation.
Excuse me? First of all, I don't watch BET or TVOne, so please don't make assumptions about which media outlets I do or do not support. I saw the picture I posted on a mainstream media outlet, so it's not that hard to find unless you're only interested in focusing on the negative. Also, don't try to school me on what you think I should be doing as a black person to "send a message to those media sources," just because you also happen to be black. You don't know the first thing about me nor what efforts I personally support. You are making foolish assumptions. All black people don't watch BET and TVOne. And some of us don't rely solely on CNN and MSNBC to stay informed about what's happening in the world.
To be truthful, it's difficult to have a rational, level headed conversation with a female on this website about a polarizing topic like this. I honestly tried to bring up a point without being disrespectful or condescending and instead it's completely taken the wrong way. At no point in my post did I ever suggest that you watch BET or TVOne. The point was addressing the black community in general. I never suggested that all black people watch BET, but you would be foolish to believe that black people didn't make up most of the audience. HELLO, it's entertainment catered to a black audience so of course black people are watching it, so it's only natural that I bring that point up. Who do you think is watching these networks? Asian people? You are over exaggerating much of what I have said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsnm
You can believe whatever you like regarding race and how it did or did not impact this particular case. In case you didn't notice, my post was in direct response to the poster who made a comment about how the images of looting impacted his views of black communities nationwide. He brought up race, hence my response included the aspect of race. I also was not referring to this one specific incident when I mentioned how some people do not value black lives, as I clearly stated a spotlight needed to be placed on what continues to happen to black men across this country. So obviously I'm not just speaking about Ferguson.
Racial profiling and police violence is an issue period. It's funny because there was a very visable police brutality case in PG County years ago, and the victim just happened to be ....... white (after Duke vs. MD basketball game).
There was no outcry, no marches and this was in our own backyard. But this was right in MD, close to anyone who lives in PG, yet you are focused on something that is halfway across the country because the person killed shares the same skin color as you? Don't get me wrong, I believe, from the information that I have, that the killing was unjustified, but we are so quick to make things about race in this country that we do not address things that need to be addressed which was the point of the article that I pointed you to (I hope you had a chance to read it, it's a very interesting story). I think the reality is, we have an extremely flawed system of how we deal with criminals in this country, but this is not just a black issue. Let me put it like this, if you see someone on an airplane wearing a turban, what's the first thought that goes through your head? Do you think those individuals will be treated the same as everyone else on the plane. My point isn't to minimize your point, but to say that we have a bigger issue than it just being black thing, so to speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsnm
I clearly understand that the issue of police brutality effects everyone regardless of race. However, I am not naive enough to pretend that race never plays a role in these cases, and considering I am a black person I will speak out on behalf of what I see happening in my own community regardless of whether you like it or not. All of this "well, let's not talk about race just yet" is pure foolishness. This is not an isolated incident, and I'm not going to be hushed as if I'm a child just because the topic makes some people uncomfortable. Sometimes in order to deliver a message, you simply have to start where you are. And this happens to be where we are at this point in time. It is a topic that needs to be addressed, and even if you think race didn't play a role in this particular case, it can still be utilized as a starting point for at least beginning to have that discussion. Certainly no person can claim that race is never an issue in these cases unless they are being extremely intellectually dishonest.
No one is telling you can't speak on behalf of black people. It's funny because I didn't really disagree with you, I just made a point about what you are suggesting can be done, but you are taking as though I am saying you were wrong, which I didn't.
Isn't it hypocritical to make this strictly a black issue at this point? You want people to understand the plight of black people, but you are unwilling to see this issue beyond your own race of people? What makes you any different than the people that you are claiming that do not value black people? Aren't you doing the same to others? No we are not the only race of people who get profiled, but you know what there are better ways to deal with it, then the black community is doing right now.
Foolish? Do you know what actually happened? Do you know if this boy was shot down because of his race? I don't believe none of us can read minds. We don't even know what actually happen. There are conflicting reports about Michael Brown reaching for the officer's gun and getting physical with him. If that is indeed true, then how can we say he was shot because of race? What proof do you have that this was racially motivated? I am extremely curious how you are able to draw that conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbsnm
I don't appreciate the tone of your post. I'm a grown woman who has experienced life as a black person for all the decades I've been alive. I'm not some young 20something with no first hand experience dealing with these types of issues. What's happening now is nothing new. There are just more eyes on it, which is often what it takes to get a dialogue started. Don't for a second feel like you somehow need to school me on what my personal responsibilities are to make a positive impact in my community. I could tell you personal stories of what I have experienced and witnessed in my own life, having lived in various different areas throughout this country. I don't have to go digging up random articles on the Internet to make a point.
I am sorry if the tone of my post came off strong, it was not my intention to offend you. I never made a personal point about you, so I'm not sure how you thought it was an attack on you.
With that said, as a black man, I know what it's like to be racially profiled, stereotyped, etc. But I believe we are quick to make black people into victims instead of having some accountability. Before I get behind a situation like this, I want to know the facts. I remember being in NC during the time of the Duke Lacrosse situation and it was ugly. There was a lot of racial tension that went on between the HBCUs and the TWIs. To find out, that the accuser in that situation was lying should have been a wake up call to us all that we need to wait for the facts to know what happened. I am not disagreeing with you, I am not suggesting that you do not bring up valid points, but I do question how you have drawn up some of the conclusions you have drawn.
For the record, Ferguson's police department has a history of racism against blacks and particularly profiling black men/boys. That echoes the ongoing challenges that Blacks face in that area. That's something that is well known locally but would not be reported nationally. Especially given the current situation.
That may be true, but that doesn't mean it was racially motivated. I am not here to say that it isn't but again, I have learned my lesson before, I rather wait until facts come out because I start throwing out the race card.
I think in the mean time we need to do a better job of preparing young people on how to deal with police officers who are like this. It doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to focus on the victimhood state of black people and not spend the time to educate our youth on how to deal with these issues. When I was growing up, my father taught us to be respectful to police even when they are wrong. It's difficult but it can save a lot of trouble in the long run. No matter what, if you start retailiating you are just giving them a licenses to do harm or even kill you. I am not saying that is what happened here, but I think that is an important lesson we can teach young black youth. If you keep teaching them that all police officers are evil and out to get you then you are going to continue to have situations that escalate because these young people will feel like they have nothing to lose. The black youth in this country have been beat down so much by this victimhood mentality that they literally have no reason to restrain themselves in situations like this.
This is an interesting discussion because what I am observing is that the people who aren't native to the DC region have a much different perspective than some of us that are native to this area.
I might as well contribute to this as well, although I don't live in DC. But I've been following the forum for years, and made a small number of trips to DC.
I also want to point out I've lived in SF, NYC, PDX, MPLS, and originally grew up in the Detroit area.
Growing up in the Midwest, basically what everyone is saying about Missouri, is basically how I felt about Michigan. The poverty, suppression, and racial misunderstandings seems too great.
When I start view the MI/Detroit Forums, I can often read into this distrust between whites and blacks, just like what I remember existing when I grew up there. Much of it sounds uneducated, etc. When I grew up around the Detroit area, if you were white, most likely you'd get some intimidation from someone or another if you were in the black areas. Either that or the police would come by, pull you over, and try to 'save you' or 'arrest you' after they determined if you were intentionally or not driving around in a 'well-known drug area.'
Anyways, my experience in NYC was completely different. While there are racial tensions, they seemed way way way less. DC feels very similar. Just way more higher-paid black professionals all over the place in DC/NYC. Not only that, but when I view the forum, very little of the subtle 'distrust of other' comes up...I mean it does...but it never quickly escalates as it might on another city's forum.
I'm following this thread myself, as curious what locals might say about PG County as well. All in all though, I think racial relations have a long way to go across the U.S., but Metro DC seems to a bit better off than Midwestern cities, due to the fact that there are much larger African populations doing quite well. That's not to say that it's perfect, or ideal, or that the same thing couldn't happen in PG County though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
