Fortune 500 Mass Exodus in Maryland? (North Beach: how much, contractors, DMV)

[adelphi_sky]

Right but the mix of government agencies in PGC aren't really synonymous. Though they may experience cuts, the IRS isn't going anywhere, Andrews is not part of BRAC. It is actually a consolidation point. NASA isn't going anywhere, and neither is the USDA. The University of Maryland is not in danger of being closed.

I do think that PGC needs to take advantage of the cyber-security and green energy sectors. The NSA is accessible from College park and it's research campus. If the FBI comes to Greenbelt, that's more opportunity for collaboration with private companies. Let's remember, NoVA wouldn't be where it is today if it hadn't been for the the Pentagon and the defense industry. Sometimes there's an advantage to having a concentration of government agencies.

But being top heavy in government jobs is just the result of being located near the national capital. Baltimore and Annapolis on the other hand are areas that should have more private sector jobs than the suburbs of DC.

Government jobs are here to stay and that's a good thing.

You never gave any solutions though.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by justtitans

That has nothing to do with it. Virginia has very little outside of NoVA, Hampton Roads, and Richmond/Charlottesville. A majority of the state doesn't have jobs, which is why there have been intiatives to address the jobs issues in southern VA. The real comparison of jobs would be to compare the metropolitan areas of DC and Baltimore to those in VA, then you get a real comparison of how the states are doing. The size of the state doesn't give VA an advantage in anyway.



Also full-day kindergarten is more of a local issue than a state issue. For instance, Loudoun County is pushing for full-day kindergarten while Prince William County is attempting to limit full-day kindergarten to certain schools so that they can find money to continue funding a brand new high school, give teachers a merit pay increase and to keep class sizes from growing.

Prince William Schools Face Full-Day Kindergarten Cuts | NBC4 Washington

Loudoun full-day kindergarten in the discussion spotlight | LoudounTimes.com



But MD has a deficit too, which is why the governor is trying to find ways to reduce costs. What makes MD any better economically?

Right, obviously I'm not just talking about how VA is geographically larger than MD. VA is more populous and NoVa, specifically, is certainly much more urbanized and dense on the whole than the MD DC suburbs. It's logical Arlington, Alexandria, and Fairfax have more jobs than MoCo and PG, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples, is all I'm saying.

Yes, as I said, you're now seeing county-level funding issues in VA that have trickled down from the state-level, e.g. cutting full-day kindergarten to save money.

MD's budget shortfall isn't nearly as deep as what we're seeing VA deal with. There's a reason Hogan was able to propose a balanced budget that has little in the way of cuts while still funding major new projects, e.g. Purple Line and Red Line. And he's still talking tax cuts as well to boot, so unless Hogan's being a completely irresponsible, crap governor (which is always a possibility), it doesn't appear MD's current shortfall is structural in nature, like you're seeing in VA.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Right, obviously I'm not just talking about how VA is geographically larger than MD. VA is more populous and NoVa, specifically, is certainly much more urbanized and dense on the whole than the MD DC suburbs. It's logical Arlington, Alexandria, and Fairfax have more jobs than MoCo and PG, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples, is all I'm saying.

Yes, as I said, you're now seeing county-level funding issues in VA that have trickled down from the state-level, e.g. cutting full-day kindergarten to save money.

MD's budget shortfall isn't nearly as deep as what we're seeing VA deal with. There's a reason Hogan was able to propose a balanced budget that has little in the way of cuts while still funding major new projects, e.g. Purple Line and Red Line. And he's still talking tax cuts as well to boot, so unless Hogan's being a completely irresponsible, crap governor (which is always a possibility), it doesn't appear MD's current shortfall is structural in nature, like you're seeing in VA.

I can't imagine what NoVA's economy would look like if the government cut defense spending even by 10%. But we seem to be getting into more wars, so, NoVA is safe for now. :-)

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Right, obviously I'm not just talking about how VA is geographically larger than MD. VA is more populous and NoVa, specifically, is certainly much more urbanized and dense on the whole than the MD DC suburbs. It's logical Arlington, Alexandria, and Fairfax have more jobs than MoCo and PG, so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples, is all I'm saying.

Is it the chicken or the egg? Did the jobs move where the people were, or did the people move where the jobs were?

Originally Posted by bufflove

Yes, as I said, you're now seeing county-level funding issues in VA that have trickled down from the state-level, e.g. cutting full-day kindergarten to save money.

You are moving the goal post. And what you have said is not true. You clearly referred to cutting full-day kindergarten being a state issue and it's not. Now you are trying to change up what you said. Prince William County, for example, is not considering cutting daycare because of state funding, it's in part because, again, they are funding a brand new high school, which is going to include a community pool and is one of the most expensive schools built in VA history. The main reason though is because expect lower growth rate in real estate. There are other things that are on the table as issues but they are all local issues.

Full day kindergarten, specialty busing all on chopping block at Prince William schools - Potomac Local Potomac Local

The move comes as the Prince William County Board of Supervisors directed officials to create a budget based on a 1.3% growth rate in the average real estate property tax bill, not the 4% tax growth rate as was approved last year. Since the county gives 57% of its entire budget to the school division, the lower rate means fewer tax fewer resources for county schools.

If it was a state issue like you claim it is, they would propose cutting full-day kindergarten in the whole county. They aren't proposing that. And then also, Loudoun County wouldn't be proposing adding full-day kindergarten.

Originally Posted by bufflove

MD's budget shortfall isn't nearly as deep as what we're seeing VA deal with. There's a reason Hogan was able to propose a balanced budget that has little in the way of cuts while still funding major new projects, e.g. Purple Line and Red Line. And he's still talking tax cuts as well to boot, so unless Hogan's being a completely irresponsible, crap governor (which is always a possibility), it doesn't appear MD's current shortfall is structural in nature, like you're seeing in VA.

Where are your numbers to back up your claim? Virginia budget issues are not based on one year, it's to avoid potential issues in the future for multiple years, 3 to be exact. Maryland's deficit is based on 18 months ahead.

VA -> $2.4 Billion over 3 years = $800 Million/Year
MD -> $1.2 Billion over 1.5 years = $800 Million/year

?????

It's not nearly as deep?

And Hogan has stated that he could still pull the Purple Line project

Nominee for Md. transportation secretary faces Purple Line decision - The Washington Post

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I can't imagine what NoVA's economy would look like if the government cut defense spending even by 10%. But we seem to be getting into more wars, so, NoVA is safe for now. :-)

The government has been cutting defense spending for years. Contractors no longer get the same amounts that they once did. The government also mandates that smaller companies get contracts as opposed to these huge companies that blow money.

Trends in U.S. Military Spending - Council on Foreign Relations

The 8 percent fall in U.S. military spending in 2013 resulted in a two percentage point fall in the global share, as military spending by the rest of the world increased 2 percent.

Of course this can change depending on how our countries handles some of the current foreign issues, but to your point, you wondered how NoVA's economy would fare:

24 > 4 and not a noticeable drop off. The whole area benefits from the government but let's not act like NoVA is strictly dependent on defense. Hampton Roads is really where a higher concentration of military exists. NoVA's economy is much more diverse.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justtitans

The government has been cutting defense spending for years. Contractors no longer get the same amounts that they once did. The government also mandates that smaller companies get contracts as opposed to these huge companies that blow money.

Trends in U.S. Military Spending - Council on Foreign Relations

Of course this can change depending on how our countries handles some of the current foreign issues, but to your point, you wondered how NoVA's economy would fare:

24 > 4 and not a noticeable drop off. The whole area benefits from the government but let's not act like NoVA is strictly dependent on defense. Hampton Roads is really where a higher concentration of military exists. NoVA's economy is much more diverse.

No area is dependent on only one arm of the government. But you have to admit that while there is economic diversity in NoVA, there's not enough diversity to sustain a large reduction in defense spending. However large or small that reduction may be, it will be felt mostly in NoVA and the rest of VA.

I'm not saying NoVA will be like Detroit. But it will be affected. It also depends on how fast NoVA can add non-defense industries to shield itself in the future. And I was just curious how would NoVA sustain a larger than normal reduction in defense spending.

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by bufflove

So? You even mention it in your post: the F500s Maryland "lost" were just due to M&A activity. The jobs didn't disappear; they're simply are under the umbrella of a different company's name. It's an absolute non-story, and an extremely dated non-story at that -- this was headline click-bait that died off many years ago. I'm all for attracting more and more businesses to MD and hope Hogan succeeds, but this notion of "lost" F500s is really absurd.

You have engaged in quasi-protectionism with this post....which is very odd considering there are no Fortune 500 firms to "protect." I would expect to see a post like this for a State that can afford to lose a few companies to mergers/acquisitions. But I certainly would not expect to see a post like this for a State who has literally nothing to hold on to. Instead of engaging in a stupid tale of "so what?," you should be in agreement (and concerned) that Maryland is losing major ground in the competition for those companies that can and do provide lots of jobs for citizens.

I recommend you try again with something more meaningful than "oh well, too bad, old news" if we are to accept your purported love for the State of Maryland.

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by City Kid

Sounds like you refuse to openly admit that Virginia collected more Fortune 500 Companies than Maryland for the last 25 years.

Exactly. His/her post was exceedingly odd....and certainly not well though-out.

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Not at all. VA is a much larger state that has spent a ton in subsidies to lure companies to VA. It's worked, but at what cost? They're currently dealing with a massive budget deficit, are laying off off workers left and right, and now you're seeing that ripple down to the county level with drastic proposals being debated, e.g. completely cutting full-day kindergarten. There's no doubt VA has attracted jobs (in part due to state subsides, in part due to having the Pentagon, CIA, etc.), but I'm far from convinced it's been worth the cost. I certainly am glad to not be living in VA considering its current economic state - everything from the size of their deficits to the outrageous vacancy rates you see in NoVa scare the bejesus outa me. VA's benefitted tremendously from over a decade of non-stop wars; unfortunate for them, that absurd growth stream has dried up.

Newsflash: Maryland is hardly in a better budget position than Virginia, with both weilding hundreds of millions in budget deficits! So your point that the "cost" of luring businesses is not worth the subsequent fiscal calamity is absolutely worthless. VA lures business....it has a big budget deficit. MD does NOT lure big business....and it has a big budget deficit.

You also have not proven that the "cost" of luring big business actually contributed in any meaningful way to VA's budget deficits.

Consequently, you have no point. None. Zero. Zilch. You're just blathering and hanging on to any shred you can find to demonstrate your slobbering love affair with MD.

[adelphi_sky]

What is Maryland's solution? Any ideas? what about giving new companies an incremental tax break starting at 0% and raising it by 1% each additional year with a cap at 5%?

Giving all the employees relocation and down payment assistance on homes?

Let's hear some ideas!