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Thread summary:

Concerned citizen seeking ideas, comments on how to improve city through local government, improve local school system, reduce taxes, crime reduction

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Old 02-01-2008, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,245 posts, read 3,335,326 times
Reputation: 1319

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Truthhurts, if I were you, I wouldn't even respond to lscalder's posts. If you read them, they all say the same thing on all threads. PG good, white people bad, etc., etc. None of them truly pertain to your posts. I think other posters that have responded to you are more coherent and have fully formed thoughts and opinions. If you want intellectual conversation then stop letting yourself be baited by lscalder. She's a great cheerleader for PG but she doesn't contribute anything substantial to the threads you have started. I know its frustrating that the intent of your threads are going in a direction different than what you wanted, but at least you are getting a dialogue going with other individuals that have their own ideas and opinions on PG. I really don't think I've seen any thread stay on topic when it comes to PG.

Having said that, keep up the good work Truthhurts. When I want stimulating conversation, I read your threads. IN MY OPINION, I agree with alot of what you try to convey. I also agree with Fish and RFMD (and once in a great while even lscalder). We all have our opinions, some are just based more on real life than others that are based on factual data. Either you live it or you read about it.

 
Old 02-01-2008, 03:25 PM
 
746 posts, read 612,197 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjg1963 View Post
Truthhurts, if I were you, I wouldn't even respond to lscalder's posts. If you read them, they all say the same thing on all threads. PG good, white people bad, etc., etc. None of them truly pertain to your posts. I think other posters that have responded to you are more coherent and have fully formed thoughts and opinions. If you want intellectual conversation then stop letting yourself be baited by lscalder. She's a great cheerleader for PG but she doesn't contribute anything substantial to the threads you have started. I know its frustrating that the intent of your threads are going in a direction different than what you wanted, but at least you are getting a dialogue going with other individuals that have their own ideas and opinions on PG. I really don't think I've seen any thread stay on topic when it comes to PG.

Having said that, keep up the good work Truthhurts. When I want stimulating conversation, I read your threads. IN MY OPINION, I agree with alot of what you try to convey. I also agree with Fish and RFMD (and once in a great while even lscalder). We all have our opinions, some are just based more on real life than others that are based on factual data. Either you live it or you read about it.

Thanks, guess it was worth a try...
 
Old 02-01-2008, 07:58 PM
 
217 posts, read 686,517 times
Reputation: 98
Thuthhurts=racist.

You've pointed to me time and again in error for what you deem as prejudice, buddy.
As we here are testament to, you attack your own race before I ever could. And...I don't want to.
Read this closely...I live in a black neighborhood in Camp Springs, all of my adjoining neighbors are black and we have no racial flareups here - as you must surely picture. I have moved beyond simple handshakes and now enjoy brother-hugs - as it was explained to me. I am a "brother" to them and have been told so many times. I know somewhat of what a black man in an all white neighborhood must feel - the dichotomy is I am not shunned.
The 6 acre plot of land that is the block my house sits on is home to only two white households - mine is one and I rarely see the other guy.
The yards are 1/2 acre for the most part and we all have riding mowers - we mow another's yard if it needs it.
Some of my neighbors are financially better off than the rest though you might never know - we don't wear that fact on a t-shirt and take it door to door.
I like my neighborhood. I live 8 miles south of the White House - I don't like the county, state or federal government's approach to PGC. Could I do better? I think I could do better on the county level because those that govern are looking to line their pockets while forgetting the needs of their constituency; the number one fault in government as a whole. To do so on a mere county level is truly corrupt. Alas, it happens in every state.
Throwing money at whatever ails it is like funding the war in Iraq, no one knows what to do with the funding.
Throwing racial slurs around is inane. You do it from NY and it serves no purpose.
I get a sense from most of what you post here that you resent something in your past or heritage. Your continual barrage of condescending attacks leads me to think you believe you are better than most of your brethren.
This is prime...
I'll tell you from experience us upper middle class black folks do not have any trouble getting into elite college, because well, the obvious, we are the best prepared to get into college out of our race.

Kind of throws a wrench into that whole affirmative action debate. I thought the point was to get disadvantaged minorities into elite colleges, not help bolster the already qualified upper middle class miniorities chances. We'd get in without the "boost" or addiontal "help." Um, wow now it makes sense which group of black elitist democrats support such a measure the black elite upper middle class (DUH!).

Truth, keep to your own state - there is a forum in which you to can spread your poison there.
IMO - You come across as a typical Yankee wanting to point out our traits and flaws only to suggest your manner in which to correct the flaws. That is typical liberal democratic politics in action.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 08:27 PM
 
217 posts, read 686,517 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessy0780 View Post
Let's keep in mind that PG is a HUGE county, and each city is very different. This thread is not about other counties- it is about PG. If you don't like it, then don't post here, you've already made your opinion clear. Why you have a problem with people taking an interest about the well being of the county and it's residents is a mystery to me. For some reason, you seem to think that every comment about PG that is not a glowing compliment is an insult to you personally. Get over it. Apparently you seem to think that you are an expert on all areas of PG, and are completely close minded to other's experiences and opinions.
jessy, I have touched on this before. As you comment, PGC is huge and consists of more than the inner beltway, National Harbor, Oxon Hill, Upper Marlboro and Central ave corridor.
In a large regard, PGC is still a sleepy farming community in many respects as are the outer fringes of MoCO, HoCO and most of SoMD. The entire metropolitan area cannot be expected to snap to attention as a planned community, I'm sorry to rain on some parades but, that is one of the charms of Maryland. It is not NYC, BOSTON, PHILLY or what one might expect.

Don't any of us like Maryland for that aspect any longer? Fishing in the rivers and creeks in the spring when the fish are running, the quaint atmosphere of SoMD and the crab trucks and BBQ trucks on the sides of the roads?
 
Old 02-01-2008, 09:32 PM
 
144 posts, read 580,419 times
Reputation: 43
Default Truthhurts (aka howsitgoingdude)

Did I get you in a tizzy? Using words such as coward, silly, Duh, OMG (Is this oh my God or oh my gosh? It appears that you may be an agnostic or atheist). I made you rise so you have to ridicule me with your superior intellectual prowess and arrogance? You 're going to flex your intellectual muscle and show me aren't you?

Do you realize the implication of the name calling and all the other ridiculing, condescending phrases you use? Children engage in such behavior when they don't get their way. Immature adults who want their way and are arrogant also engage in like manner. What do you think?

You brought your ball to the Maryland forum and people are not playing ball with you in a manner which you like at the present time. We tell you to take your ball and go home and now people espousing this are cowards, fearful, silly etc.. When you can't control the forum and be the master of ceremony to convey your superior intellectual prowess and elitist mindset you respond in a child-like, immature manner rubber stamping other posters not in line with your belief system.

Again your psychological make-up is very easy to read. Engaging in dialogue with you is a waste of time. However let me say this:

I knew you would respond to the link in the manner which you responded as you feel a need to reinforce your absolute truth. Your truth is absolute and anything and everything that reinforces it is readily embraced to validate your belief. Your absolute truth reads as such:

Educated parents+two parent households+wealth community+inadequate school curriculum/resources etc=MIT University

and

Educated parents+two parent households+wealthy community+adequate school curriculum/resources etc=MIT University.

essentially your absolute philosophy says

1+2+3+1=9
and
1+2+3+3=9

Your logic also says 1+2+3 automatically equates to the next variable being 3 thus that equals 9. Subsequently all/most Bowie High students should be attending MIT and like universities.

You think I don't realize certain socioeconomic factors play a significant role in how successful one becomes in the educational system? My primary reason for adding the link is for those individuals living in No Where USA who frequents this forum can know that their child CAN attend PG County public school and be adequately prepared to attend a prestigious university such as MIT and not be misled into thinking we have some 5th grade curriculum with unqualified teachers and all students are destined to fail. The school system also deserves credit.

One of the other critical factors that are vital to higher education is ensuring that the curriculum is adequate, instructors are qualified, resources are present to prepare the students. Is it not? Often time minorities are within school districts with an inferior curriculum, poorly qualified teachers with inadequate resources making them ill prepared to attend the top notch schools. I can almost assure you this is largely the case in the NY City school districts. Does it not make sense to say the child from the middle income family with two parents taking part in a school system with an inadequate curriculum and other related variables would not fear as well compared to the child with a similar socioeconomic status participating in a curriculum that is top notch and intellectually challenging? But again your truth is absolute. 1+2+3+1=9 and 1+2+3+3=9.

One can easily extrapolate from your ridiculing comments that if your come from a middle class family with two parents and other positive socioeconomic factors you automatically will be attending the best universities. Anything less is a failure. It is an absolute truth that has nothing to do with the school system itself. Conversely one who comes from a "broken home" without the socioeconomic factor mentions are too disadvantaged and guaranteed to fail.

Let us say we (fish, iscalder )played ball with you in accordance with your intent when you started the thread. We intellectualize solution A-Z to fix the school system in the county. The thread goes 5-6 pages. Again I live in No Where, USA come to the forum follow the thread and think wow what is going on over there. I would think man the entire school system must be broken and ill equipped to prepare my son or daughter for any school much less MIT.

Your intellectualist/elitist agenda are very obvious. As a Prince Georges County resident I 'am trying to ensure there is objectivity, balance and fairness to the threads concerning the county while you engage in intellectual masturbation in discussing the county. Did I not say the county's school system is not on par with the other surrounding school districts in the region which as we know are the best in the country? However the school system is well funded and is undergoing a radical shift regarding the culture under Deasy to make it one of the better school systems in the country.

Your read some of these threads and you would think the entire county is some hell hole where thugs are roaming the streets with a school system similar to the city which you live in or close to-did I say that?

If you don't like the manner I 'am playing ball with you maybe you can take your arrogance to the NY forum and convey your absolute "boot strap" beliefs over there.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,245 posts, read 3,335,326 times
Reputation: 1319
Fish, somehow, others have forgotten what you still appreciate. Growing up, I used to hang out along the Northwest Branch (creek) in Adelphi. The starting point for me was the "Old Mill" on Riggs Road. We'd take the bike bath down to Piney Branch and New Hampshire and then hike it along the huge hills with the massive rocks as far as we could go. The mill and the path are still there to this day. I live in Laurel now and we have a river with the ruins of an old mill amongst other indications of past history. Every spring they stock the river with fish and every fall they have a "Riverfest." I love walking or biking there. Its quiet and you forget about what's past the wall of trees.

Have you ever driven up Route 1 and looked for the past? Before there was I95, Route 1 was THE north/south main road. Look past the McDonald's and Pizza Huts and you will see the remnants of the old "tourist cabins" or roadside stops. Many of the buildings are used for other things now, but if you really look, you can see the history from Hyattsville to Laurel.

Unfortunately, "progress" is taking over much of PG. My grandfather grew up on a farm in Oxen Hill (anyone remember Fort Foote area?). When I came along, he still owned it but didn't live there. It had the old house on it, the stables, barn, and old well that scared me to death. The stream was the back boundry to the property. He used to come out on weekends and grow tomatoes and green beans. About an acre was filled with daffodils that we would pick in the spring. What a beautiful sight. Driving out there seemed like the other side of the world to me. It was so "country" from where I grew up on New Hampshire Avenue. Eventually, he had all the buildings torn down because they were dangerous. He decided to sell the property. He refused to sell it to a developer. He sold it to an individual that said they wanted it for themself to build one house. Five years later, there was a development there and the stream had disappeared.

Luckily, there is more effort to preserve the past and protect the more "wild" areas. Hopefully, all of us will come to appreciate what PG county used to be and all the little things like roadside BBQs, fishing, and nature. Ammenities are nice, but knowing and living how life used to be can also be fulfilling.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,245 posts, read 3,335,326 times
Reputation: 1319
"One can easily extrapolate from your ridiculing comments that if your come from a middle class family with two parents and other positive socioeconomic factors you automatically will be attending the best universities. Anything less is a failure. It is an absolute truth that has nothing to do with the school system itself. Conversely one who comes from a "broken home" without the socioeconomic factor mentions are too disadvantaged and guaranteed to fail."

RFMD, I will back you up on this one. I'm a case study in what you are trying to convey. I am a single parent (broken home). I am probably also considered lower middle class or (lol) upper lower class based on income. My daughter should have attended high school in Laurel, however, based on excellent grades, the qualifying test, and teacher recommendations, she is in the Science and Tech program at Eleanor Roosevelt. Out of 3,000 applicants only 250 can be accepted. The reputation of this school is well known and I think it is PG County's crowning joy. I'm sure it is also well-funded. Based on what everyone's opinion is about lower income, single parent households, my daughter should probably be in remedial reading. I understand that based on statistics, lower income individuals don't always shine when it comes to academics, but I don't like how people take this information and apply it to everyone in a certain socio-economic bracket.

Unfortunately, I have also worried about my children in school because (I'll assume based on funding) the teachers are not qualified. I don't know how many times I've received written communication from a teacher that had misspelled words, incorrect usage of words, or poor grammer and punctuation. If you are my child's English teacher, than I expect you to be able to understand and practice what you teach.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 06:43 AM
 
746 posts, read 612,197 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjg1963 View Post
"One can easily extrapolate from your ridiculing comments that if your come from a middle class family with two parents and other positive socioeconomic factors you automatically will be attending the best universities. Anything less is a failure. It is an absolute truth that has nothing to do with the school system itself. Conversely one who comes from a "broken home" without the socioeconomic factor mentions are too disadvantaged and guaranteed to fail."

RFMD, I will back you up on this one. I'm a case study in what you are trying to convey. I am a single parent (broken home). I am probably also considered lower middle class or (lol) upper lower class based on income. My daughter should have attended high school in Laurel, however, based on excellent grades, the qualifying test, and teacher recommendations, she is in the Science and Tech program at Eleanor Roosevelt. Out of 3,000 applicants only 250 can be accepted. The reputation of this school is well known and I think it is PG County's crowning joy. I'm sure it is also well-funded. Based on what everyone's opinion is about lower income, single parent households, my daughter should probably be in remedial reading. I understand that based on statistics, lower income individuals don't always shine when it comes to academics, but I don't like how people take this information and apply it to everyone in a certain socio-economic bracket.

Unfortunately, I have also worried about my children in school because (I'll assume based on funding) the teachers are not qualified. I don't know how many times I've received written communication from a teacher that had misspelled words, incorrect usage of words, or poor grammer and punctuation. If you are my child's English teacher, than I expect you to be able to understand and practice what you teach.

KJG, can I ask you a series of questions?

How involved in your child's academic life are you?

Would you say that in reference to most parents (notice i said most not all), that you know in your same situation you are probably in relation to them going above the call of duty to make sure your child recieves a great education?

What RFMD, Fish, and Iscalder do is try and pollute what i'm saying based on their own personal bias. I've clearly stated and I do not think many would disagree kids with two parent households, educated parents, and higher incomes are in most (not all) cases going to fair better than children that do not.

I have never once said the words "It is impossible," or "It cannot happen." What I have said is that for it to happen on that level you need less government intervention and more parental involvement. The key as i've stressed througout this board is less government involvement and more parental involement. I can almost guarntee without knowing her KPG, is an extremely involved parent. Would this assertion be right KPG? How often would you say you devoute time to helping your children study at night on weekends, do you know all your childs teachers on a call first call basis etc?

While RFMD, thinks all of the responsibility to educate children should fall upon the school system. I believe all of the responsibility to educate children resides with the parent/parents. The school is not the defacto first line of defense in educating our children we as parents are! This is for any race, social ecnomic group, or class of people.

Clearly poor schools even under same situation are going to have different results than well funded schools, but the material is all the same, so the effort is on the parents to pick up the slack. If the parents are doing their job a kid could go to a school in SouthEast DC and still make great grades and be prepared to start college at any school. Well, he/she may be not be fully prepared to start at Harvard or Standford the college doors somewhere will be open for them.

In reference to elite children going to elite colleges, that is not meant to be elitist, that is just factual. Obviously, the most qualified kids in each racial group are going to be from the upper classes. Meaning that there will be a disproportionate number of upper class students represented at these elite colleges.

My point to you was the way to fix this, is to stop voting for programs like Affirmative Action, because they really do not help "disadvantaged" black youth at all. They favor affluent black children and subsequential do not favor poorer black children . My point was to say, i'm not at a disadvantage in anyway and the color of my skin does not put me at an academic disadvantage because my parents are very well educated and so am I.

My basic point is why should an uppper class black kid get even more brownie points on a stellar application when they clearly have the academic merit to get in? Why not use those brownie points to help out a less fortunate black from a predomintely poor black community?

Most elite colleges are looking for qualified applicants and it is no mere coincedence you find a disproportionate number of qualified applicants among the upper classes of society. How do you fix that, well, everything we have previously discussed; First, better parental involvement from Day 1, two, higher academic standards (regardless of income), three, more accountability within school systems (which you cannot have when you have massive amounts of government involvement). Schools need to be taken back to a localized level, so that everyone can get involved and have some say in the process (which from reading Deasy is trying to do in PGC). This is the right approach you place the power where the constitution said it belonged and that's with the people. Who can better understand the educational local dynamics of Oxon Hill better than the local people residing in Oxon Hill?

Anyway in closing let me again stress, that just because my opinion differs from yours gives you no right to question whether i like being black or not. I find that to be some of the most racially charged bs rhetoric I have ever heard. I have never heard any white person question Newt Gingrich's love of his race, because he has a different opinion from President Bush yet they are both republicans.

Fish, you're treading on very dangerous racial lines when you say statements like that because it boarders on the theory that all blacks must think alike, talk a like, come from the same backgrounds, and therefore any alteration to this supposed "norm" is a self hating black or a Tom. I find this to be very offensive and that is why i call you out on it time after time. Challenging the status quo is by no means an effort to say one thinks of himself as better than his race, look we are all equal in the eyes of god and the law, but that's about as far as equality takes you.

I do not look down upon poor, lower class, or middle class blacks. Sure, being a black male i'm frustrated at times with the lack of effort given by a lot of these poor and lower class blacks, but i'm by no means lookign down on them. I have clearly stated, that what frustrates me most is how they continue to do the wrong things. This leaves them stuck in their current situations and that is what frustrates me. Personally i'd rather see all black people in the middle or upper middle class.

If I believed they were beneath me i would not stress individuality, responsibility, and a need to rasie standards would I? If like you I believed they were all incapable, i'd be asking the government to care for those people, coddle them, take them in the ever expanding and far reaching government bossom and make sure government makes the right choices in fact all choices for these people, because without big government they would have no chance. I however, do not believe that nor subscribe to it, but the more you post the more I see RFMD and Fish do. I find that appauling and sad and maybe you do not realize it, but just read some of what you two write in relation to helping "these people."

I clearly believe in the you can do it theory as opposed to the you can only do it with help theory. A blind man needs help crossing a street, but a man with sight can do it on his own. Poor black people in my opinion are clearly not blind. The problem with crossing the street is knowing when to make the right choice to cross the street. In theory to keep crossing the street in traffic is stupid and risky. To not hold people accountable for stupidity and high amounts of risk is silly. But not near as silly and boofonish as giving a seeing man a guide dog, this is an insult to his existence and intelligence as a human being.

Last edited by truthhurts; 02-02-2008 at 08:05 AM..
 
Old 02-02-2008, 06:52 AM
 
29,464 posts, read 33,723,940 times
Reputation: 11093
Education and race: the performance of minority students

SAT Scores Improve At Many Area Schools (washingtonpost.com)

Truth, if the average score is suppose to be 1000(normed) then the average school would be 1000. If you have schools at 1100 would you need schools at 900 to norm it out? Prince Georges scores when you factor in socio-economics are not indicative of a poor school system but rather one with a number of challenges. As others have said many students from all backgrounds are doing well and others are not. A school system is a collection of indvidual schools and a school is a collection of individual students and families. Many of us have allowed ourselves to generalize and we need to remember that there are many successes in PG and many failures elsewhere. As you would say the goal is what will the individual do so we need to be careful not to categorize the good work of many individuals based on the norm. Hey if you go to Suitland and have a 1450 on your SAT you still have 1450. If you go to Severna Park and have a 925 you still have a 925.

Last edited by TuborgP; 02-02-2008 at 07:00 AM..
 
Old 02-02-2008, 08:27 AM
 
746 posts, read 612,197 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Education and race: the performance of minority students

SAT Scores Improve At Many Area Schools (washingtonpost.com)

Truth, if the average score is suppose to be 1000(normed) then the average school would be 1000. If you have schools at 1100 would you need schools at 900 to norm it out? Prince Georges scores when you factor in socio-economics are not indicative of a poor school system but rather one with a number of challenges. As others have said many students from all backgrounds are doing well and others are not. A school system is a collection of indvidual schools and a school is a collection of individual students and families. Many of us have allowed ourselves to generalize and we need to remember that there are many successes in PG and many failures elsewhere. As you would say the goal is what will the individual do so we need to be careful not to categorize the good work of many individuals based on the norm. Hey if you go to Suitland and have a 1450 on your SAT you still have 1450. If you go to Severna Park and have a 925 you still have a 925.
It would be interesting to see the median scores as opposed to the Average scores for some of those counties.

You could have a group of 20 children scoring 1200 consistently and another group of 80 scoring 800 consistently and average a score of 880 (which is PGC average). Or you could have a group of 20 children scoring 1300 and another group of 80 scoring 950 and have an overall score of 1020 when averaged. Hence why it would be much more beneficial not to do averages and just do the median scores of each county.

I'm in agreement with what you're saying, that's why I hate the use of "average SAT" scores as opposed to both average and median.

Anyway to answer your post. I do agree, and i think this gets to the core of what i was talking about to being with. Smaller more localized schools. When you do this we can get a the core problem. If kids that are say coming from certain elementary schools or middle schools then going to certain high schools and bringing down the average. Well, under a more localized smaller system you can fix the problem in the elementary and middle school before it escalates to the high schools.

The problems with being poor is not the schools problem it is a community problem, that needs to be attacked as such. If it is shown the school is a problem and the community is involved enough to note this problem, they can exercise their right to vote this board out and replace it with people that will help them.

In closing i'm not making generalizations in terms of the entire county, but i'm pretty sure i can tell you the exact places where kids come from who are most likely to make a 1450 and where the kids come from who are more likely to make a 700. This does not mean i'm generalizing, but stressing that the main reason a kid making a 1450 can attend the same school system as a kid making a 700 has less to do with the school system and more to do with the local community, which involves, parents and neighbors and the students overall home life. All of those thing i just named are individual responsibilities. Government cannot force individuals to be more responsible parents in terms of helping educate their children.
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