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Thread summary:

Concerned citizen seeking ideas, comments on how to improve city through local government, improve local school system, reduce taxes, crime reduction

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Old 02-02-2008, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,247 posts, read 3,340,249 times
Reputation: 1324

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I have never once said the words "It is impossible," or "It cannot happen." What I have said is that for it to happen on that level you need less government intervention and more parental involvement. The key as i've stressed througout this board is less government involvement and more parental involement. I can almost guarntee without knowing her KPG, is an extremely involved parent. Would this assertion be right KPG? How often would you say you devoute time to helping your children study at night on weekends, do you know all your childs teachers on a call first call basis etc?

To be honest, I am barely involved. I don't know any of my daughter's teachers and haven't been to any parent/teacher conferences in 5 years. I don't belong to the PTA and I don't check what work my daughter has to do at home. Sometimes, people just have an innate ability to excel in school. I am not a fine example of parent involvement. I'm not proud of it; however, my son graduated with a 4.0 in advanced placement classes and my daughter is following right behind. I think my kids understood that graduating is just a fact of life in our family. I've been to graduations where families are crying and hollering like their children just got the Noble Peace Prize. Expectations shouldn't be so low that graduating high school is the high point of someone's life.

I do support my kids in everything they do, and I tend to spend half my time in the car driving my daughter to extra credit study groups and softball and whatever else she is involved in at the moment. But actual school involvement is almost nil.

 
Old 02-02-2008, 10:34 AM
 
746 posts, read 613,497 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjg1963 View Post
I have never once said the words "It is impossible," or "It cannot happen." What I have said is that for it to happen on that level you need less government intervention and more parental involvement. The key as i've stressed througout this board is less government involvement and more parental involement. I can almost guarntee without knowing her KPG, is an extremely involved parent. Would this assertion be right KPG? How often would you say you devoute time to helping your children study at night on weekends, do you know all your childs teachers on a call first call basis etc?

To be honest, I am barely involved. I don't know any of my daughter's teachers and haven't been to any parent/teacher conferences in 5 years. I don't belong to the PTA and I don't check what work my daughter has to do at home. Sometimes, people just have an innate ability to excel in school. I am not a fine example of parent involvement. I'm not proud of it; however, my son graduated with a 4.0 in advanced placement classes and my daughter is following right behind. I think my kids understood that graduating is just a fact of life in our family. I've been to graduations where families are crying and hollering like their children just got the Noble Peace Prize. Expectations shouldn't be so low that graduating high school is the high point of someone's life.

I do support my kids in everything they do, and I tend to spend half my time in the car driving my daughter to extra credit study groups and softball and whatever else she is involved in at the moment. But actual school involvement is almost nil.
Wow, thanks for so candidly sharing this experience. Um, i still have more questions. Do you think this would work for the masses of parents in your positon?

While you say you're not involved you have set a certain level of expectation your children are supposed to meet, right? Is this done via GPA?

Do you think there's a correlation with high expectation from parents and high output from thier children. (Exmaple a parent may expect their child to maintain a 3.8 average. Although the child may never consistenlty maintain a 3.8 the expectations/goal causes the child to maintain a 3.6 or 3.7 etc).

What do you think has motivated your children to succeed under those circumstances?
 
Old 02-02-2008, 11:05 AM
 
135 posts, read 550,427 times
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:26 AM
 
29,465 posts, read 33,760,781 times
Reputation: 11105
Default Shoot for average and if you miss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
Wow, thanks for so candidly sharing this experience. Um, i still have more questions. Do you think this would work for the masses of parents in your positon?

While you say you're not involved you have set a certain level of expectation your children are supposed to meet, right? Is this done via GPA?

Do you think there's a correlation with high expectation from parents and high output from thier children. (Exmaple a parent may expect their child to maintain a 3.8 average. Although the child may never consistenlty maintain a 3.8 the expectations/goal causes the child to maintain a 3.6 or 3.7 etc).

What do you think has motivated your children to succeed under those circumstances?
Shoot for the moon and if you fall short you still have done well.

Shoot for Harvard and if you end up at Penn State you still have done well.

Aim for 1500 on the SAT and if you miss by 20% guess what you have still done?

Shoot for average and if you miss?

Do you really want to shoot for average miss and end up below average?
 
Old 02-02-2008, 12:46 PM
 
144 posts, read 580,758 times
Reputation: 43
Default Th

Now you state falsehoods:

1) "RFMD believes it is solely the schools responsibility to educate their children". Show me among the many threads where that is mentioned by me? As a matter of fact, in the Prince Georges County thread I believe poster Golfin espoused the importance of parental involvement and I agreed with him. You were active in that thread.

You think this could just be your Republican colored glasses does not allow you to extrapolate correctly with anything or anybody that is not in alignment with your philosophy?

In addition to that maybe you are more interested merely in verbalizing your Repulican rhetoric among the forum? Your whole rebuttal was essentially quoting the Republican national anthem as if you were reading from a script:

Less governement this
less taxes that
Affirmative action this
poor people are poor because of choices on and on and on.

You probably literally walk around with strapped boots. You need to open up your mind, learn how to respect others and humble yourself.

You also accuse me of polluting what you are saying based upon personal biases. What did I pollute based upon my so called biases?

You say you can almost guarantee Kpg is involved in his/her child's life based upon your philosophy of good grades is a direct function of parental involvement. I could imagine if she said yes how you would have replied to reinforce your absolute truth that hurts when you convey it.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 01:41 PM
 
746 posts, read 613,497 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFMD View Post
Now you state falsehoods:

1) "RFMD believes it is solely the schools responsibility to educate their children". Show me among the many threads where that is mentioned by me? As a matter of fact, in the Prince Georges County thread I believe poster Golfin espoused the importance of parental involvement and I agreed with him. You were active in that thread.

You think this could just be your Republican colored glasses does not allow you to extrapolate correctly with anything or anybody that is not in alignment with your philosophy?

In addition to that maybe you are more interested merely in verbalizing your Repulican rhetoric among the forum? Your whole rebuttal was essentially quoting the Republican national anthem as if you were reading from a script:

Less governement this
less taxes that
Affirmative action this
poor people are poor because of choices on and on and on.

You probably literally walk around with strapped boots. You need to open up your mind, learn how to respect others and humble yourself.

You also accuse me of polluting what you are saying based upon personal biases. What did I pollute based upon my so called biases?

You say you can almost guarantee Kpg is involved in his/her child's life based upon your philosophy of good grades is a direct function of parental involvement. I could imagine if she said yes how you would have replied to reinforce your absolute truth that hurts when you convey it.
You seem to confuse conservatism with modern day republicanism. At this point in time the two are completely different and have been for a very long time. Just like liberalism and the democrat, if you're considerd progressive or liberal you may side more of the views of democrats, but you may not be 100% a democrat. Thus i'm not 100% a republican, because i expose conservative views.

Furthermore, i do not think that is a substantially accurate argument to make when you could have just clarified your position on the issues i named.

This is not about being a republican or a democrat this about what is the best way to educate children. I have made the discussion bi-partisian and so should you.

I have never stated 100% one way or the other, but I have said "much more likely," which to all accounts is true.

If you want to get all mathmatical. (Let's assume 2 is the pinnacle of educational achievement) I have never said

1+1 = 2 (nothing is ever 100% one way)

I have said (much more likely)

1+.8 =1.8 (which simply means this is more likely to come close to equaling two than say)

1+.08= 1.08 (which is considerable less likely to come close to equaling two)

Sure 1+.08+.50 (will get you closer to two, but my point is if you're starting out with .08 you'll need .50 to get you closer to, 2)

Whereas the person that starts out with .8 only needs .2 to get to, two! (1+.8+.2)

Get it?

Obviously, KPG, stated very candidly, she is not involved and it is amazing her children have started out at 1+.10 =1.10 and have made it to point 1.8 really close to 2 (if we assume that 2 equates to all academic success).

Did you not notice my post to her asking her what may have lead her children to develope the drive that would get them closer to 2.0. (I would suspect a mix of her expectations of success and let me scare you with perhaps their great utilization of dare i say Free-CHOICE.) Come back RFMD, free-choice is not going to get you.

Did you note she said while she may not be active she has set "high expectations."

????


Also please stop referring to small government as "pick yourself up by the bootstraps." What that really means is get off your a** and take some responsibility for yourself and stop expecting the government or others to do for you what you can do for yourself.

Can you explain to me what "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" means as defined by RFMD? Can you explain to me why the government should have to help or force someone to do something they are clearly capable of on their own?

Final question do you believe poor children are smart and capable of excelling in school?

Do you think it is a bit insulting, if you answerd yes, to give a man with sight a seeing eye dog, to walk across the street?

Have you ever heard about the achievements of Dunbar High School in the early 1900's?

Thomas Sowell - "The Education of Minority Children"
 
Old 02-02-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,247 posts, read 3,340,249 times
Reputation: 1324
I can't say that I have set high expectations for my children. I think they did that themselves. I don't expect my kids to get straight A's. My son actually got better grades than my daughter does now. However, my daughter is in the Science and Tech program. If her final grade is below a C, she will be disqualified to continue with the program and have to go to her local high school. I think that this is what keeps her motivated. She has struggled in one or two classes but I don't feel it necessary to harp on it. We do talk about how she is doing and she tells me what she thinks she can do to improve. My biggest concern with both my kids was not doing homework consistently.

Like I said, I do believe we all have different learning capabilities. My kids got lucky and were blessed with some intelligence. I myself fell into copy editing because I have an eye for the written word. I only have my high school education to thank for that because I didn't go to college.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 03:59 PM
 
746 posts, read 613,497 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjg1963 View Post
I can't say that I have set high expectations for my children. I think they did that themselves. I don't expect my kids to get straight A's. My son actually got better grades than my daughter does now. However, my daughter is in the Science and Tech program. If her final grade is below a C, she will be disqualified to continue with the program and have to go to her local high school. I think that this is what keeps her motivated. She has struggled in one or two classes but I don't feel it necessary to harp on it. We do talk about how she is doing and she tells me what she thinks she can do to improve. My biggest concern with both my kids was not doing homework consistently.

Like I said, I do believe we all have different learning capabilities. My kids got lucky and were blessed with some intelligence. I myself fell into copy editing because I have an eye for the written word. I only have my high school education to thank for that because I didn't go to college.
Kjg, interesting the only thing I disagree with is "I do believe we all have different learning capabilities." and the other line "my kids got lucky and were blessed with some intelligence."

The first quote harkens back to people assuming that based on either racial genetics or superiority some of us are born smarter than others. For instance under this assumption every kid, that was born in this similiar circumstance of your particular ethnicity would automatically be smart and able to get 4.0. (Now, i know that's not what you're trying to convey, but i'm just saying it could easily go down that path)

"My kids got lucky and were blessed with some intelligence"

Now, it is not my place to say anything relating to you and your kids, but I find this a bit distrubing in that you're down playing the significance of thier choice to work hard in school, get good grades, and excel when others in their same position are not, because they were blessed? What about hard-work and the consciencetious choices they have made to work hard at academics?

Kgj, I know a guy that got a 1500 on his SAT and never graduated college. In fact he never had over a 3.0 in high school (granted he took all advanced classes, no excuse). In fact he did not even want to attend college, but eventually went for a few years. He did not choose to graduate, because he's not smart enough obviously, but because he has no work ethic or drive. He just recently moved out of his parents home and he's 28. I think smarts are good, but the actual ability to utilize choices that make smarts worth it are a much more valuable skill. In closing at one point in his life he did work hard to learn the material, but was too lazy to complete the job. He's now a programmer, but earns little to nothing programming websites, not because he cannot do a great job, but because he half a@@ everything.

Anyway, I think its great your kids have made the right chocies academically and prove the stereotype wrong. I highly doubt there abilities should be placed under "luck." Where you have people who work hard and are determined you'll see results not luck.

Or as my father always told me "Luck, is where opportunity meets preparedness"
 
Old 02-02-2008, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,247 posts, read 3,340,249 times
Reputation: 1324
I don't agree that all children can learn at the same level and I definitely don't say that because I think any race or socio-economic situation has something to do with it. My friend's daughter was a year ahead of my son. She worked hard in school and was determined to graduate and at least attend a 2-year college. She had an excellent work ethic and did everything right when it came to study habits, attendance, taking notes, etc. She struggled the whole time. She came home with D's in the classes that counted (science, english, math). There is such a thing as IQ. I don't believe in it 100% but there is a reason some of us do better than others and it has no relation to the environment we come from. And I don't downplay my kids working hard in school because, to be honest, they don't. Just like I didn't and I managed to get A's and B's.

So, after having said that, I still agree with you in many respects. Hard work does go a long way and my son is just learning that now. He is really doing well in his job and moving up. I was very disappointed that he chose not to go to college because I thought he would end up not very productive. However, he chose not to go to school because he didn't want to be $35,000 in debt when he got out. He apparently has a great appreciation for money and decided to dedicate himself to the pursuit of it. My daughter still needs to learn that hard work gets you more. Hopefully, with maturity, she will come to realize this.
 
Old 02-02-2008, 06:14 PM
 
217 posts, read 686,860 times
Reputation: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
Fish, you're treading on very dangerous racial lines when you say statements like that because it boarders on the theory that all blacks must think alike, talk a like, come from the same backgrounds, and therefore any alteration to this supposed "norm" is a self hating black or a Tom.
Dude, you stick your foot in your mouth too easily. Read back on all of the filth you have littered here and catch up on how much you disdain your own race.
Some history - I am a military brat kid - I learned a long time ago that skin color did not measure the worth of a friend. I made friends as I moved and they were of any race.
I know very well all blacks do not think, breathe, eat, drink, sleep, drive or work alike. As with any other race they evidently can not, to a man, share like value systems if some are behind bars while others are behind a till.
To suggest I think otherwise is implying that I don't know my neighbors and I take that as libel. You live in your upper class NY (city or state?) region and throw rocks at us. What if we found the same titillation in bombarding the NY forum for no reason?
I can post lists of food ingredients or different languages spoken in different burbs for no reason at all.
Again, I suggest that I have more interactions with blacks outside of my home than you. We drive the same streets as well as patronize the same businesses. The chances of me finding an "all white" anything in this county is impossible - everyone on this forum will echo this.

You seemingly want to analyze (from afar) what you find as a discomfiture to your highly vaulted upper class status. Do lower class "negros" make you uncomfortable? My neighborhood has mixtures of all and I walk the streets. Me, the white boy that looks out of place. These are people, not inanimate numbers for you or others to put together and crunch out.

Your writings show you very much favor ELITISM and represent the very proof of the wrong in this country. ELITISM cannot be realized in a country as diverse as the USA. The division in classes has caused the USA to mirror a monarchy in many respects. If you deny this fact you are denying the very numbers that you post.
Face it - this is a nation of haves and have nots.
I fit in with the have nots as my family is not based on billionaire holdings so we have to work - like 98% of the country and this forum. If that is below you then so be it.
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