How is possible that the traffic is that bad??? (Baltimore: condo, high crime)

[slowlane3]

Again, 38 million miles per year of needless driving could be saved (using 2009 figures), if the "Washington Flyer" would only abolish its senseless monopoly on service at Dulles Airport, and inter-jurisdictional taxi restrictions were lifted. Cabbies would also have way less "down time" when they're required to drive EMPTY - their time would be much more productive and lucrative - and everyone involved would benefit. Time to ground the Washington Flyer - Greater Greater Washington

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Why are you blaming the commuters instead of sharing some of the blame around to the agencies, businesses and other entities which have moved out to the suburbs?


You can also blame some of the local governments which let their quality of life get so bad that people fled them to safer and cheaper areas with better schools and other services.

I don't understand your point. Jobs being available literally all over the region means it makes sense to drive 70 miles a day? If anything, you're just pointing out how it's easier than ever to find a job close to your home, reverse commute, etc. People have more viable choices than ever, not fewer.

Yes, some people are constricted by poverty, being underwater in a home they can't sell, etc. and those are serious problems, but the vast majority of people have the ability to choose either where they live or where they work. I don't even mind that some people decide to live in the middle of nowhere and commute in - sure, it's a pain in the ass for them to unnecessarily clog up roads, but that's their choice to make. I just mind when they then complain as if it's some shock that the roads they clog are clogged. And I hate the suggestion that it's the job of every city, 1st and 2nd ring suburb to sacrifice their quality of life and build/expand more highways just to make life easier for people who want to live 3 counties away from where they work.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by bufflove

I don't understand your point. Jobs being available literally all over the region means it makes sense to drive 70 miles a day? If anything, you're just pointing out how it's easier than ever to find a job close to your home, reverse commute, etc. People have more viable choices than ever, not fewer.

Yes, some people are constricted by poverty, being underwater in a home they can't sell, etc. and those are serious problems, but the vast majority of people have the ability to choose either where they live or where they work. I don't even mind that some people decide to live in the middle of nowhere and commute in - sure, it's a pain in the ass for them to unnecessarily clog up roads, but that's their choice to make. I just mind when they then complain as if it's some shock that the roads they clog are clogged. And I hate the suggestion that it's the job of every city, 1st and 2nd ring suburb to sacrifice their quality of life and build/expand more highways just to make life easier for people who want to live 3 counties away from where they work.

Tell all of the above to the FBI employees who live in Virginia if the new headquarters is built in Prince George's County.


You mention "quality of life". Why do you think so many people moved out further? Much of it was because the quality of life deteriorated so much where they had been living.


Why is there Black Flight from Prince George's (and even DC) to Charles County? Schools, maybe? Crime, maybe (and don't you PG folks jump on that. Yes, crime is way down in the County but that's not the perception no matter what Rushern wants you to believe)? Lower taxes for better services, maybe?


Look at how Baltimore is trying to poach DC area people to move there, touting lower housing costs. There should be some high dudgeon about that, wouldn't you think?

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by bufflove

I don't understand your point. Jobs being available literally all over the region means it makes sense to drive 70 miles a day? If anything, you're just pointing out how it's easier than ever to find a job close to your home, reverse commute, etc. People have more viable choices than ever, not fewer.

Yes, some people are constricted by poverty, being underwater in a home they can't sell, etc. and those are serious problems, but the vast majority of people have the ability to choose either where they live or where they work. I don't even mind that some people decide to live in the middle of nowhere and commute in - sure, it's a pain in the ass for them to unnecessarily clog up roads, but that's their choice to make. I just mind when they then complain as if it's some shock that the roads they clog are clogged. And I hate the suggestion that it's the job of every city, 1st and 2nd ring suburb to sacrifice their quality of life and build/expand more highways just to make life easier for people who want to live 3 counties away from where they work.

If the vast majority could do it, they would have. It's clear that vast majority does not have the choices you think they do.

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by Woodfin

Urban planners were thinking that everybody who works in DC would/should/could live there as well ?



People have the right and need to live that far from DC and/or other areas they may work. They should just have to pay a little bit more to commute from there. Or use public transit options. We probably need some form of "miles driven tax", and we definitely need a higher gas tax.


The real problem around here, though, is there really ARE NO VIABLE PUBLIC TRANSIT OPTIONS.



Let people close to (sticking with the example) Frederick make a much shorter drive to an economical parking lot THERE.......take a bus at minimal cost....and a reliable Metro at a REASONABLE cost. We currently have none of those things.

TAKE CARS OFF THE ROADS !!

There is a bus from Frederick (and even Hagerstown) Down to Shady Grove Metro. It has been more than a few years since I took it but at the time the cost of it combined with the Metro cost was reasonable plus I could read on the trip. Metro works good for rush hour commuting IF YOU ARE GOING DOWNTOWN. the problem around the Metro area is more commuting is from one outer sector to another and there isn't a good alternative to the car for that.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by dkf747

If the vast majority could do it, they would have. It's clear that vast majority does not have the choices you think they do.

Of course the vast majority of people have a choice. They actively choose to buy a place in Clarksburg or Fulton and then drive in. There's nothing wrong with that choice, but it does have obvious consequences. Complaining about said consequences is nuts to me. Of course driving 70 miles a day is a pain in the ass and of course metro isn't going to be a viable option for such a commute.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Tell all of the above to the FBI employees who live in Virginia if the new headquarters is built in Prince George's County.


You mention "quality of life". Why do you think so many people moved out further? Much of it was because the quality of life deteriorated so much where they had been living.


Why is there Black Flight from Prince George's (and even DC) to Charles County? Schools, maybe? Crime, maybe (and don't you PG folks jump on that. Yes, crime is way down in the County but that's not the perception no matter what Rushern wants you to believe)? Lower taxes for better services, maybe?


Look at how Baltimore is trying to poach DC area people to move there, touting lower housing costs. There should be some high dudgeon about that, wouldn't you think?

You're still just furthering my point. Everyone who works at the FBI will have the better part of a decade to figure out if they want to move closer to the new location, switch jobs, or put up with a terrible commute.

Anyways, I'm not saying it's impossible for people to be in a position where they're forced into a nonsensical commute for some period of time. Obviously that's the case for some fraction of people who have a long single-occupancy commute. That lack of choice, however, clearly isn't the norm nor does it have anything to do with my assertion that it's not the job of cities and closer-in suburbs to continuously expand highway infrastructure. It makes no sense to expect me to diminish the quality of my neighborhood just so someone who lives in the middle of nowhere can more easily speed on through.

Re: "quality of life"/sprawl/PG, that's surely a chicken and egg issue with deep race/class-based problems coupled with transportation, land use, economic, etc. policies that encouraged sprawl. I'm sure we can argue back and forth all day about whether crap neighborhoods are a cause or an effect of enabled/encouraged sprawl. I'd imagine it's a combination of both. Either way, I get that some people prefer to commute further in order to get a bigger house or a rural vibe or have fewer impoverished students in their school district and, again, I'm fine with that. I'm just saying - again - that the clear and appropriate downside of living 35 miles away from DC and then driving to and from DC every day is that is your commute sucks. It's not the job of urban planners or metro or closer-in jurisdictions to sacrifice resources to turn that into a logical and easy commute.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by bufflove

- that the clear and appropriate downside of living 35 miles away from DC and then driving to and from DC every day is that is your commute sucks. It's not the job of urban planners or metro or closer-in jurisdictions to sacrifice resources to turn that into a logical and easy commute.

And if you look I never said it was. All I've really said was that when the region's transportation system was designed none of the people planning it anticipated what has happened in the area. That would include housing patterns, population growth, business development, even the Redskins moving. And when it was happening local, and even the state, governments didn't really recognize that it was. You kind of picked a fight for no reason.

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Of course the vast majority of people have a choice. They actively choose to buy a place in Clarksburg or Fulton and then drive in. There's nothing wrong with that choice, but it does have obvious consequences. Complaining about said consequences is nuts to me. Of course driving 70 miles a day is a pain in the ass and of course metro isn't going to be a viable option for such a commute.

It would be so nice to be so simple minded. You do not factor in costs, schools, crime, and many other factors. The decision of where to live is not made solely on one factor for most people.

[Mr Beco]

Originally Posted by QuagmireRules

Hi people,

I am moving to MD soon and I asked for a place to live. Everyone strongly recommended me to be as close as work as possible. I will definitely follow that advice. However, I am wondering how is possible that the traffic is so bad. I have checked on youtube some videos and it looks like for example the 495 has 4 lines each direction... that is a lot!!

What are the reason for the traffic congestion? Maybe, the low speed limit? Maybe the that people do not use to drive on the right line? Maybe a lot of control of police with a big risk of fine?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Its bad! Rush hour in the morning, and rush hour in the evening. God help you if it snows here, or rains.....Daylight savings causes issues....one accident and the beltway is tied up for hours, I-270 going north is a parking lot at 4pm, getting into DC is tough, traveling around VA is tough.

There are a lot of people moving to DC, the area is expanding like crazy. That said, its not New York, but its getting tough to live here, I think.