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Washington, DC suburbs in Maryland Calvert County, Charles County, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:00 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
41,527 posts, read 54,095,362 times
Reputation: 55902

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Aren't we already at that point? I mean the buying potential in the county is in the billions. We already travel to DC, MoCo, and NoVA to shop. The problem is not the income. We have to remember that MoCo, Fairfax, and Loudoun Counties are in the top 10 in the country. PGC, unfortunately, won't reach those numbers in our lifetime.

But right now, where the county's income levels are, we can support all levels of retail. The problem isn't racial makeup in that only white people shop at Whole Foods and Urban Outfitters. There existed a systemic issue with county and state leadership and developers and businesses. It has taken a long time to recover from that. We are only now seeing what should have been happening 20 years ago.

Maryland as a state is still seen as anti-business. In addition to Bethesda getting the lion's share of occupied office space.

Let's start with building an employment center in the county. Two locations are promising. One is New Carrollton, the other is the College Park/Greenbelt area with the discovery district and the office park next to the Greenbelt Metro.

There needs to be a shift in jobs from west to east.

Taking race out of the picture, if you look at the data, any retailer would like the numbers.
And you're still ignoring one of the main reasons companies shy away from Prince George's, as well as government agencies. For the latter let's be honest. With the exception of Hoyer what other Maryland federal officeholder has really gotten much for the State? And being even more honest, Hoyer has mostly concentrated on NAS PAX for the last twenty years.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:53 PM
 
Location: MD
52 posts, read 46,624 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
And you're still ignoring one of the main reasons companies shy away from Prince George's, as well as government agencies. For the latter let's be honest. With the exception of Hoyer what other Maryland federal officeholder has really gotten much for the State? And being even more honest, Hoyer has mostly concentrated on NAS PAX for the last twenty years.
What are we ignoring?
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:37 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
41,527 posts, read 54,095,362 times
Reputation: 55902
Quote:
Originally Posted by IVmyman View Post
What are we ignoring?
Adelphi Sky knows. Bring the ratings up from second from next to last to just in the middle, say 13th, and companies will flock in.
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
6,937 posts, read 8,818,334 times
Reputation: 3646
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Adelphi Sky knows. Bring the ratings up from second from next to last to just in the middle, say 13th, and companies will flock in.
Veiled racism and prejudice. That's what I know. It is always the marginalized who have to improve and change but not the ones who hoard resources and maintain segregated opportunity by way of inherited privilege as if they are the social standard-bearers. It is nothing but consistent conservatism and lazy liberalism.

All it takes is a few companies and agencies to make a difference. Just as I can travel from Maryland and work in VA where I don't live, someone in VA can travel to Maryland to work where they don't live. No one is asking VA to change. I can't stand to live in VA. But I don't mind working there, obviously. I'm only there, in an office, 8 hours a day, and then I go home. I am not concerned with VA after I leave. The same can go for those who live in DC and elsewhere.
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:55 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
41,527 posts, read 54,095,362 times
Reputation: 55902
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Veiled racism and prejudice. That's what I know. It is always the marginalized who have to improve and change but not the ones who hoard resources and maintain segregated opportunity by way of inherited privilege as if they are the social standard-bearers. It is nothing but consistent conservatism and lazy liberalism.

All it takes is a few companies and agencies to make a difference. Just as I can travel from Maryland and work in VA where I don't live, someone in VA can travel to Maryland to work where they don't live. No one is asking VA to change. I can't stand to live in VA. But I don't mind working there, obviously. I'm only there, in an office, 8 hours a day, and then I go home. I am not concerned with VA after I leave. The same can go for those who live in DC and elsewhere.
Annnd out comes the racism card. If it's really that then why didn't major companies locate in the County prior to it being majority minority? The answer is the same. An underperforming and dysfunctional school system coupled with a corrupt County government. The endemic corruption at the State level didn't help either.
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:43 PM
 
Location: The world
63 posts, read 96,052 times
Reputation: 71
You’re right, North Beach. I was waiting for others to mention abysmal schools but the crickets were deafening. Race card is frankly boring, especially when companies and developers are interested in the color GREEN.
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Old 09-29-2019, 05:48 AM
 
170 posts, read 161,063 times
Reputation: 230
You fault adelphi for bringing out the race card and yet the notorious developer DR Horton is building the same houses in Alexandria as they are in PG, but at wildly different price points. If we were to go by your simplistic assertion that "it's the schools, stupid!" then how do you account for the fact that the Alexandria developments have local schools with abysmal Great Schools ratings? By abysmal, I'm talking about rock bottom (1-3 ratings out of 10 being the best). These scores make them comparable to their PG equivalent, so... what is it? Distance? Don't make me laugh. The comparisons are stark even from equidistant locales to DC proper from the Maryland and Virginia side.

To be clear on my point, I agree that schools are traditionally an impactful reason accounting for variations in different housing markets. The crux of my argument is that it is not the case when concerning the immediate DC periphery-- not even a little bit. To adelphi's point, race absolutely has relevance here, and this is evident from observing the historic racial compositions of the PG side compared to the Alexandria/Arlington/Fairfax side. I, as a non-black person, would much rather live in a wealthy PGC area such as Fort Washington MD than I would in most of Alexandria VA, such as the Mark Center area (which is where I lived when I first moved to the DC region long ago). The house model that I live in here in Fort Washington has the exact same located in an Alexandria development, but at the time both were being constructed (within a year of each other, less than a decade ago), the price was significantly higher in Alexandria to the tune of nearly half a million dollars. The schools actually aggregated worse in the Alexandria development than my Fort Washington development (which doesn't mean anything to me, because anything short of the best is not worth sending my kids to). Furthermore, my development in Fort Washington is so much better in terms of how it was planned out (e.g. the Alexandria development is situated within 100 feet of a major thoroughway), and has better access to things that I value (within 5 miles of 3 national parks).

It would be so nice if people that actually live in the discussed regions would chime in more. I'm so tired of people from out of state and retirees from far-flung counties such as Calvert County adding their two cents as if they know what they're talking about.
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:41 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
41,527 posts, read 54,095,362 times
Reputation: 55902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalux View Post
You fault adelphi for bringing out the race card and yet the notorious developer DR Horton is building the same houses in Alexandria as they are in PG, but at wildly different price points. If we were to go by your simplistic assertion that "it's the schools, stupid!" then how do you account for the fact that the Alexandria developments have local schools with abysmal Great Schools ratings? By abysmal, I'm talking about rock bottom (1-3 ratings out of 10 being the best). These scores make them comparable to their PG equivalent, so... what is it? Distance? Don't make me laugh. The comparisons are stark even from equidistant locales to DC proper from the Maryland and Virginia side.

To be clear on my point, I agree that schools are traditionally an impactful reason accounting for variations in different housing markets. The crux of my argument is that it is not the case when concerning the immediate DC periphery-- not even a little bit. To adelphi's point, race absolutely has relevance here, and this is evident from observing the historic racial compositions of the PG side compared to the Alexandria/Arlington/Fairfax side. I, as a non-black person, would much rather live in a wealthy PGC area such as Fort Washington MD than I would in most of Alexandria VA, such as the Mark Center area (which is where I lived when I first moved to the DC region long ago). The house model that I live in here in Fort Washington has the exact same located in an Alexandria development, but at the time both were being constructed (within a year of each other, less than a decade ago), the price was significantly higher in Alexandria to the tune of nearly half a million dollars. The schools actually aggregated worse in the Alexandria development than my Fort Washington development (which doesn't mean anything to me, because anything short of the best is not worth sending my kids to). Furthermore, my development in Fort Washington is so much better in terms of how it was planned out (e.g. the Alexandria development is situated within 100 feet of a major thoroughway), and has better access to things that I value (within 5 miles of 3 national parks).

It would be so nice if people that actually live in the discussed regions would chime in more. I'm so tired of people from out of state and retirees from far-flung counties such as Calvert County adding their two cents as if they know what they're talking about.
Well once again you have proven you either don't pay attention or don't retain what you've read. This "retiree from far flung Calvert County" taught for 30 plus years in Prince George's County. So, unlike you, I do have the historical background on the County which just relatively recently became majority Black (or minority if you prefer).

I also was involved with local politics for the better part of three decades, which in Maryland means you deal with the State government and other jurisdictions constantly, so I likely have a much better and more in depth perspective of the thinking that goes behind decisions than you can ever hope to have.

In Alexandria's case, since you used that as an example, the fact is that just the name has a cachet that Fort Washington will never have. That's not meant to demean FW but just plain stating facts.

Let's use Maryland as an example. Why did companies locate in Montgomery when they could have just as easily located in Prince George's? This will be where the race card will be thrown but the fact of the matter is that when that growth started happening Prince George's was overwhelmingly White. It had much cheaper land and arguably better access to DC. The common denominators were the even then poor school system and the pay to play County government.

As far as the school system goes, Rushern Baker plainly and baldly stated that was why the County was lagging in business development, hence his takeover of the school system. I don't care where in the US you are or what the racial demographics are, if a proposed location has a bad school system a company isn't going to locate its management headquarters there, they'd lose too much top talent. A factory or distribution center? Yes. That's blue collar and the employees don't have to be that well educated to put bottles in boxes or load and unload trucks.

What I always find hilarious with you is your oft repeated statement, "Aside from the corrupt government, poor school system, bad traffic and excessive taxes Prince George's isn't a bad place to live".
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:01 AM
 
170 posts, read 161,063 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Well once again you have proven you either don't pay attention or don't retain what you've read. This "retiree from far flung Calvert County" taught for 30 plus years in Prince George's County. So, unlike you, I do have the historical background on the County which just relatively recently became majority Black (or minority if you prefer).

I also was involved with local politics for the better part of three decades, which in Maryland means you deal with the State government and other jurisdictions constantly, so I likely have a much better and more in depth perspective of the thinking that goes behind decisions than you can ever hope to have.

In Alexandria's case, since you used that as an example, the fact is that just the name has a cachet that Fort Washington will never have. That's not meant to demean FW but just plain stating facts.

Let's use Maryland as an example. Why did companies locate in Montgomery when they could have just as easily located in Prince George's? This will be where the race card will be thrown but the fact of the matter is that when that growth started happening Prince George's was overwhelmingly White. It had much cheaper land and arguably better access to DC. The common denominators were the even then poor school system and the pay to play County government.

As far as the school system goes, Rushern Baker plainly and baldly stated that was why the County was lagging in business development, hence his takeover of the school system. I don't care where in the US you are or what the racial demographics are, if a proposed location has a bad school system a company isn't going to locate its management headquarters there, they'd lose too much top talent. A factory or distribution center? Yes. That's blue collar and the employees don't have to be that well educated to put bottles in boxes or load and unload trucks.

What I always find hilarious with you is your oft repeated statement, "Aside from the corrupt government, poor school system, bad traffic and excessive taxes Prince George's isn't a bad place to live".
Wow, someone sure seems riled up. North Beach, here is a simple exercise in logic: past history does not denote current knowledge. Your alleged background in PGC, which you concede is in yesteryear, shows that it is you that is lacking in knowledge. Or should I say, current knowledge? This is evident when you say farcical things such as the county only "...recently became majority Black..." Yeah, recent if you're talking about a transitional shift that began roughly 40 years ago. Surely you haven't lost all your critical thinking skills with age, have you?

Now that we have that out of the way (and I've finished poking fun at your hilariously enraged indignant retort), let's examine your follow-on statements.

(1) "Alexandria...just the name has a cachet that Fort Washington will never have... just stating facts."
THIS is coming from an alleged teacher. Something is just a certain way and it always will be that way, because... "facts." No wonder PGC is in such a sad state when it comes to education-- it hired people like yourself. Your 'retirement' likely resulted in an immediate improvement to whatever school that had the misfortune of having you.

(2) "Why did companies...Montgomery County when they could have just as easily located in Prince George's?... Common denominators were... poor school system and the pay to play County government."
Unsubstantiated assertion, and also one that does not even remotely make sense. The state of business growth in the DC periphery for Maryland has historically been dimmer than on the Virginia side. Montgomery County is quite loudly complained by businesses as a bad place to grow (there's plenty of research you can do on this, but let me throw this out for you to get you started: https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesd...-for-business/). Nothing about what you're saying makes sense here; the very notion that businesses want to build in Montgomery County over Prince George's County because of school reasons is as farcical as it is unproven by any semblance of fact. And nobody does 'pay to play' better than Montgomery County-- remember Peter Bang? Here, Mr. Boomer, let me help you jog your poor memory (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c17_story.html).

(3) "I don't care where in the US you are or what the racial demographics are, if a proposed location has a bad school system a company isn't going to locate its management headquarters there, they'd lose too much top talent."
Oh, so that's why 17.1% of DC region's federal workforce is from PGC; as opposed to 4.3% in Alexandria (per Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments)? All these skilled governmental executives from PGC must not make your arbitrary and undefined cut of "top talent," eh? You remind me of a stereotypical middling grandpa that hangs out at Maryland seaside buffets in part to pass the time and in part to stretch the value of that meager pension. Occasionally you hear one prattle about things which seem endearingly novel at first but after a few moments you quickly realize that he probably shouldn't be left unattended.

Last edited by Jalux; 09-29-2019 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 09-29-2019, 10:08 AM
 
58 posts, read 36,206 times
Reputation: 43
Having lived in DMV for almost a decade now (mostly on the VA side, stint in Fort Meade area some years ago) I've found that the big difference between Arlington / Alexandria, and Montgomery County when compared to Prince Georges County is that the first three have a strong "yuppie" presence coupled with a lot of big business and government offices, while Prince Georges has a strong cultural presence from what I now know to be the large influx of black families settling there from DC or perhaps coming from elsehwere to "PG" because of the cultural advantages they believe it has (and perhaps does).



The "yuppies" quack liberal stuff, but they do it from the comfort of their yuppy confines and come up with that "you'll get shot in PG" rhetoric. It's a discomfort they have for a place with a different type of American culture. I'm aware that crime is higher in Prince Georges and there are issues with some of the infrastructure but the urban legends you hear from yuppies is still a bit much. I'm a white guy, but ultimately I prefer affordability and space which you can still find in "PG" / Charles County. So I get stares there because it's clearly a different culture in Waldorf / Brandywine--but since I'm settling in a place tucked away in trees and zoned so that it won't get invaded by "Ryan" Homes or cookie cutter townhouses it's just fine by me. Being from a very rural place on the West Coast, even yuppies bother me so I was never exactly comfortable or content in Alexandria or Arlington, or able to disregard how annoying the snoods were in Montgomery County when I was there.



By default, because of general American history, anywhere that is majority black will feel particularly empowered to voice what they see as the issues which hinder them from the prosperity they desire and or see in places that are a majority white or another demographic. For me, I'm just concerned about crummy taxes and the ability to get from point A to point B in an at least "ok" manner. Living in some miserably expensive area where I metro to DC for work and still takes over an hour one way as was the case in VA, I'll take a longer commute from somewhere with housing I can afford and land that is pretty and as protected from major development as anywhere in this region.


I may even learn a bit from the culture in PG for better or for worse--and they may learn a bit from me...who knows.



I'm technically in Brandywine (zipcode wise) but just on the Charles County side.
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