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Old 03-29-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Standing outside of heaven, wating for God to come and get me.
1,382 posts, read 3,160,387 times
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here is another program that the Government sanctioned...

COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
Old 03-29-2011, 09:46 AM
 
715 posts, read 1,273,396 times
Reputation: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahales View Post
here is another program that the Government sanctioned...

COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you're getting a little too deep
 
Old 03-29-2011, 09:49 AM
 
465 posts, read 777,228 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahales View Post
Jokestars, one of the reasons that slavery existed for so long is because the Government allowed it. Even brought it up at a constitutional convention when they accepted the 3/5th's compromise. Also, look at the Dred Scott case. The so-called father of independence, Thomas Jefferson, owned slaves (aint that some hypocritical bull). The reason that Jim Crow existed was because the federal government allowed it to (Plessy vs Ferguson). Restricted Covenants were also allowed to exist because of the U.S. Government.

Want to see some more stuff the feds allowed to go on, check the link below

Tuskegee syphilis experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Okay, I agree with reparations for the victime of Tuskegee, no doubt. Should all blacks get money for that? No. No one in my family on either side owned slaves. Since money doesn't grow out of thin air, you're saying you want to raise my taxes so an entire ethnicity of people get a free check? And for how long? For life? For all of your descendents?

AHales, you seem like the kind of smart guy who realizes hard work is important. You also seem smart enough to realize just giving people stuff for free creates dependency. If you've got any ideas to help the black community that doesn't involve handing 40 million people free money or massive tax increases, I'm all ears.

And let's assume we send every black person in America 5000 bucks for reparations. That would cost 400 BILLION dollars. Are you serious? We've already got social security, medicare, and military spending breaking the bank! Do REALLY think giving every black person 5k would magically lift entire communities out of poverty and create a culture where education and family are the biggest priorities?

Unless they're lying to me, none of the middle class blacks in NOVA I've discussed politics with (not that many, to be honest) supports reparations or welfare with no cut-off date. I did, however, on the day after Obama's election, overhear a large woman on the escalators at Chinatown say:

"Now that Obama's president, I'm gonna get my motherf****ing reparations. Hahaha."

Friend: "mmmmhmmmm."


I'd like to think she was joking, but I don't think she was. Either way, overhearing that type of stuff doesn't help perceptions. Just sayin'.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 09:55 AM
 
465 posts, read 777,228 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Guys there is no point in trying to convince Jokestars of the truth. He's making blanket statements to justify his beliefs. I just wonder since I work with a bunch of Indians and Chinese at my job, if they look at me the same way Jokestars looks at black people.
1) What "truth"? That you deserve a free check? That's a subjective opinion. No one is denying the existence of slavery.

2) I see you've taken the typical approach of labeling anyone who doesn't buy into your perpetual victimhood BS a "racist". Good thing Sharpton et al have played that card so much it holds no weight.

3) Most intelligent humans are able to recognize trends about groups and populations without applying them to individuals. If you can't, then that's on you.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Standing outside of heaven, wating for God to come and get me.
1,382 posts, read 3,160,387 times
Reputation: 500
No I don't believe we need reparations. I never said that. I am just laying out a case that the Government does have a reason for playing a role in cleaning up some of the mess they help created. Now, you and I both know that a govt solution alone is not going to work but lets not go throw out every social program.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 10:02 AM
 
465 posts, read 777,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahales View Post
No I don't believe we need reparations. I never said that. I am just laying out a case that the Government does have a reason for playing a role in cleaning up some of the mess they help created. Now, you and I both know that a govt solution alone is not going to work but lets not go throw out every social program.
Okay, fine. But I think that can be accomplished with reform and not creating even more wasteful federal programs. And if we actually cut military spending and entitlements like medicare and SS, we would HAVE more money to spend on infastructure and jobs programs.

But right now we're broke as hell. And even if you raised every billionaire's tax rate to 100%, that wouldn't be enough money to even cover this year's deficit, let alone total spending and the total deficit.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,120 posts, read 3,609,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerstars View Post
1) What "truth"? That you deserve a free check? That's a subjective opinion. No one is denying the existence of slavery.

2) I see you've taken the typical approach of labeling anyone who doesn't buy into your perpetual victimhood BS a "racist". Good thing Sharpton et al have played that card so much it holds no weight.

3) Most intelligent humans are able to recognize trends about groups and populations without applying them to individuals. If you can't, then that's on you.
Dude, You're the one that is going around labeling people. I never said anything about anyone getting a free check. I never got a check or anything because I was Black. I just have school loans because my parents made too much. No one is talking about "perpetual victimhood" on this forum. If you haven't noticed, the Black people you are talking to on this particular thread haven't mentioned anything about perpetual victim hood and receiving reparations for all of our people. You are the one that made that statement. Everyone else here has been cordial and tried to explain certain things that have been hindrances. As Ahales stated before, no one here is excusing the ignorance and acceptance of bad behavior that goes on within the black community. And that is a problem within itself. But I can tell you that most of us are normal hardworking people just trying to go about our day without any trouble. And when I mention you saying blanket statements, you just proved me right when you assumed that I was pulling out some sort of race card. Oh yeah, most intelligent humans ARE able to recognize trends about groups and populations without applying them to individuals. Its just that choice many choose not to.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 10:17 AM
 
465 posts, read 777,228 times
Reputation: 284
So the problem is I'm making blanket statements. But you JUST said that "most intelligent humans ARE able to recognize trends about groups and populations without applying them to individuals". And that's what I am doing. I do not seriously think any of the black posters here are on welfare or are gang bangin' thugs.

What I am saying is that there seems to be a culture of victimhood (justified or not) within the black community. I know poor black areas are probably the most dangerous areas of the city and it's not racist to want to avoid those areas after dark.

Would I be wrong in these observations? Have I applied them to any people here? No? Then what's the problem with observing this? Probably because I'm not black. I may have assumed that everyone was defending reparations due to the course of our debate about USG reponsibility, and if you weren't, then I apologize.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,447 posts, read 33,807,669 times
Reputation: 8967
I will say this.

Having hung around these forums long enough (DC & MD/DC)...and noticed... that most posters are probably black rather than white...generally, on these two forums.

I've also noticed that most of the DC/MD forumers actually are quite cordial, intelligent, well thought out, etc.

I equally notice occassional race-baiting (not by jokerstars in particular, he seems genuinely interested in discussing), but have noticed others come in and say something. I've been quite impressed by the number of black folk on here who quickly identify the poster specifically, rather than a sweeping 'white folk' response, etc. I have the utmost respect for all the black forumers who participate on the DC (and MD, for that matter) forums.

I do have to say that the black community has had some damn crazy leaders though the last twenty years. That was something I never understood, until suddenly I started seeing all these crazy 'speaking for white America' right-wing nutjobs coming out of the woodwork. I don't think black folks have any control whatsoever to stop self-appointed spokesman than I (I'm white) have to stop all the Glen Becks, Rush Limbaughs and such. Yet, there are plenty of white people who believe in those people, just the same. There are also plenty of white people who vehemently oppose or at the minimum try to tune out everything they say as well. If you listen closely to what black folk speak about when it comes to leaders, you'll probably hear of other leaders that they actually respect - Cosby types, etc.

(Parable story here of myself projecting on to the black experience). Being an American living abroad. I will say that the Bush years were particularly hard to be an American overseas. I absolutely hated the guy. Yet, because of him, all kinds of non-Americans would approach me saying all kinds of terrible terrible stuff about America. I found myself half defending a lot of stuff I really hated and couldn't stand about America and it's leaders during that administration. It happens because people just come in making blanket statements at every level, just showing deep down that they really just hate America/Americans regardless if you agree with them or not. Plus since you represent what they hate so much, they can never remove you personally because of what you represent. Yet I'm still American...that can never be removed from me no matter what...so can we all just get beyond that, and discuss something different nonetheless? (I actually see that element with quite a few black-americans from time to time when they have to deal with these issues when a 'black' topic comes up).

Anyways, maybe there is something useful that I posted here...no definitive conclusion with this, and will just post 'as is'.
 
Old 03-29-2011, 11:13 AM
 
999 posts, read 1,635,731 times
Reputation: 1158
People in power have a common trait. Abusers have a common trait.

The people in power of this country tend to be A.) White B.) Wealthy and C.) Male. It's been that way since 1776.

Abusers maintain their power by beating or sexually assaulting their wives, girlfriends or children.

How can I link violent abusers to wealthy white males who rule this nation? They share a certain trait. It's called victimhood.

If someone representing a weaker faction of society fights back or if a beaten wife stands up to the abuser...the person in power (aka the abuser) will cry foul and claim that he is the one who is suffering. It is such a heavy burden to manage the household or manage the affairs of our nation. How dare the ungrateful minorities and poor question and demand resolution to historical injustice. When someone throws a punch back, the abuser (aka the man in power) will demand justice because his authority and his beliefs are being challenged by the powerless. Persecution and prosecution are the typical means for a "victim" to counter a punch by a person with brown skin or a person living in debt bondage to the rich.

Abusers (aka wealthy white men in power) will turn the tables against the powerless by claiming that actions committed by the powerless will cause serious trouble to our economic and political stability. If a woman fights back against her husband, the abusive husband will warn her that she and her kids could not possibly survive without his income. He's the glue that holds the house together, right? This is what the elites from New York and Washington, DC tell us all the time.

If you want to see a massive display of victimhood syndrome on our television screens and in YouTube videos, look no further than the conservative movement in the United States (aka The Tea Party).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerstars View Post
So the problem is I'm making blanket statements. But you JUST said that "most intelligent humans ARE able to recognize trends about groups and populations without applying them to individuals". And that's what I am doing. I do not seriously think any of the black posters here are on welfare or are gang bangin' thugs.

What I am saying is that there seems to be a culture of victimhood (justified or not) within the black community. I know poor black areas are probably the most dangerous areas of the city and it's not racist to want to avoid those areas after dark.

Would I be wrong in these observations? Have I applied them to any people here? No? Then what's the problem with observing this? Probably because I'm not black. I may have assumed that everyone was defending reparations due to the course of our debate about USG reponsibility, and if you weren't, then I apologize.
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