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LOL. How come it sounds like you are yelling in every post? It does make a difference because the other contributors and myself can see better where your misguide view comes from. Yes, we are both Americans and we are both want to solve problems here without bankrupting the country. The difference, as displayed in this thread, is that you do not know what you are talking about. Oh and me talking about the millions of middle class working people is not some sort of shield against examining if there is waste and redundancy. I never said there shouldn't be cuts, what I am saying that you can't stereotype all the hard working people here just because YOU think they are not important.
Quit kidding yourself. Nothing anyone does in this area as a career is important. It's all paper pushing bureaucracy.
O.K. fine I'll make it very simple to understand (again, *sigh*):
IF YOU ARE PAID DIRECTLY OR EVEN INDIRECTLY WITH TAXPAYER MONEY THEN TAX PAYERS HAVE A RIGHT TO JUDGE WHETHER YOUR JOB IS NECESSARY OR A WASTE.
IT IS OUR MONEY EVEN AFTER WE SEND IN THE TAX FORMS.
IF YOU ARE WASTING OUR MONEY EITHER BY INCOMPETENCE OR REDUNDANCY THEN YOU SHOULD BE FIRED AND OUR MONEY RETURNED TO US.
(Sorry for the all caps but I am trying to make it perfectly clear to those who just don't get it).
LOL so 20 pages in and we finally get that it's not just federal employees who directly benefit from taxpayer money. So from now on out we can count on CLB10 and the tea party crowd to include government contractors and entire industries in their boogeyman evil taxpayer wasting conspiracy? Great! So now we can count on you writing your congressman about how angry you are at how government contractors and corn growers in Iowa and contractors designing jets in Missouri that aren't perfect employees who don't waste a single cent on anything you deem superfluous? Right? RIGHT?!
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Originally Posted by VTHokieFan
Quit kidding yourself. Nothing anyone does in this area as a career is important. It's all paper pushing bureaucracy.
Another member of the "I know what 1 million+ people do on a daily basis and can deem their importance because I know more than they do" crowd. And you guys wonder why so many people have a hard time taking you seriously.
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Your reply is a classic example of the liberal motto: "I am right and you are wrong, logic be damned".
Arrogance is not in legion with a logical mind.
You haven't discussed cuts at all.
I am the only one talking about dealing with our massive debt and deficit problems by perhaps letting thousands of entitled, spoiled and (apparently) snobbish federal workers go. For like the 10th time, just because you are a federal worker doesn't mean you are entitled to a cushy permajob because you filled out an application. Americans can't continue to work until April each year 100% for the benefit of Indian pottery sales programs and other such BS.
ANYBODY outside of the protected bubble of the royal federal class can see that clear as day. What the F do you think got Greece in trouble?
Again, a bunch of middle class workers being labelled a part of the "royal federal class" just goes to show how clueless you are about the reality of this situation. It's a joke to label a class of workers who average 50k a year or less as royalty. But keep it up...all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that the anti-fed crowd does not understand the situation at all and bases their entire opinions on right wing blog nonsense and not reality at all.
LOL so 20 pages in and we finally get that it's not just federal employees who directly benefit from taxpayer money. So from now on out we can count on CLB10 and the tea party crowd to include government contractors and entire industries in their boogeyman evil taxpayer wasting conspiracy? Great! So now we can count on you writing your congressman about how angry you are at how government contractors and corn growers in Iowa and contractors designing jets in Missouri that aren't perfect employees who don't waste a single cent on anything you deem superfluous? Right? RIGHT?!
Please point to the post where I said that federal contractors are exempt for common sense budgeting and the most basic rules of economics. Where did I defend federal contractors? I am not in any so-called "Tea Party" but it is funny how the bureaucracy defenders are angry with my supposed stereotyping of a whole group then turn around and do it themselves. Typical liberal hypocrisy . Why would I support special interest quid pro quo for Big Agriculture or the military-industrial complex? Where did I say I was sympathetic to that crap?
Another member of the "I know what 1 million+ people do on a daily basis and can deem their importance because I know more than they do" crowd. And you guys wonder why so many people have a hard time taking you seriously.
You can't even acknowledge that Federal workers are OUR EMPLOYEES!
You're darned tootin' we can judge them and what they do...its our money they are spending!
Again, a bunch of middle class workers being labelled a part of the "royal federal class" just goes to show how clueless you are about the reality of this situation. It's a joke to label a class of workers who average 50k a year or less as royalty. But keep it up...all you're doing is reinforcing the fact that the anti-fed crowd does not understand the situation at all and bases their entire opinions on right wing blog nonsense and not reality at all.
How do you know that those who want sensibility in federal spending aren't former or even current feds? Are you saying that once you become a federal worker then, no matter what, you must demand a job and pay increases even though we are in a brutal economy? How is that putting the country first? How can you in one breath defend the extraordinary pay for the average federal office worker in D.C. because of the area's "cost of living" then imply that all federal workers are just "struggling working-class folks who, gosh darnit, are just tryin' to make it in this tough ol' world?
Which is it? Are they paid a higher salary to keep up with D.C.'s high cost of living or are they barely scraping by? Pick one.
Since you know exactly what is going on in the federal government then why is the federal budget in such disarray? Let me guess...its the evil conservatives, right? (Predictable as always )
Exactly.
Looks like the only people defending government waste are those who profit from it. Some patriots they are.
Please point to the post where I said that federal contractors are exempt for common sense budgeting and the most basic rules of economics. Where did I defend federal contractors? I am not in any so-called "Tea Party" but it is funny how the bureaucracy defenders are angry with my supposed stereotyping of a whole group then turn around and do it themselves. Typical liberal hypocrisy . Why would I support special interest quid pro quo for Big Agriculture or the military-industrial complex? Where did I say I was sympathetic to that crap?
You can't even acknowledge that Federal workers are OUR EMPLOYEES!
You're darned tootin' we can judge them and what they do...its our money they are spending!
How do you know that those who want sensibility in federal spending aren't former or even current feds? Are you saying that once you become a federal worker then, no matter what, you must demand a job and pay increases even though we are in a brutal economy? How is that putting the country first? How can you in one breath defend the extraordinary pay for the average federal office worker in D.C. because of the area's "cost of living" then imply that all federal workers are just "struggling working-class folks who, gosh darnit, are just tryin' to make it in this tough ol' world?
Which is it? Are they paid a higher salary to keep up with D.C.'s high cost of living or are they barely scraping by? Pick one.
Since you know exactly what is going on in the federal government then why is the federal budget in such disarray? Let me guess...its the evil conservatives, right? (Predictable as always )
Looks like the only people defending government waste are those who profit from it. Some patriots they are.
Again, 20 pages in and all we've read you harp on are federal workers and NOT contractors or subsidized industries. At least until I pointed that out. So long as this thread keeps going I look forward to you lumping in all of them and their employees in the same evil ruling class as feds
And maybe you are confusing me with someone else but go back a couple of pages and I did suggest things to reduce federal spending. Of course since it didn't include massive layoffs of people you personally deem unimportant I'm sure it wasn't good enough.
Finally, you understand the difference between cost of living pay and differing wage levels, right? Only 15% of federal jobs are in Washington and yes the workers here automatically make more than workers in a lower cost of living area due to a locality adjustment. But a GS-9 here only makes around 4k more a year than one in most medium and small cities in the U.S. That is around 50k and that is hardly "extraordinary pay" as you call it. Washington is bound to have more higher grade employees here than most places due to the fact that most agencies have their HQ here. These are two separate issues. Look at the occupation chart on this page I linked above and tell me those average salaries are "extraordinary". Some might be slightly higher than their private sector averages, some will be lower. Do you want to do the research yourself and tell me which ones are which and which ones you deem "extraordinary"? You're the one making such a ridiculous claim so I would think you would have those figures on hand.
And why is the federal budget in such disarray? Why that's the topic of another thread, but the short answer is lazy federal employees - obviously! (see what I did there? )
Again, 20 pages in and all we've read you harp on are federal workers and NOT contractors or subsidized industries. At least until I pointed that out. So long as this thread keeps going I look forward to you lumping in all of them and their employees in the same evil ruling class as feds
And maybe you are confusing me with someone else but go back a couple of pages and I did suggest things to reduce federal spending. Of course since it didn't include massive layoffs of people you personally deem unimportant I'm sure it wasn't good enough.
Finally, you understand the difference between cost of living pay and differing wage levels, right? Only 15% of federal jobs are in Washington and yes the workers here automatically make more than workers in a lower cost of living area due to a locality adjustment. But a GS-9 here only makes around 4k more a year than one in most medium and small cities in the U.S. That is around 50k and that is hardly "extraordinary pay" as you call it. Washington is bound to have more higher grade employees here than most places due to the fact that most agencies have their HQ here. These are two separate issues. Look at the occupation chart on this page I linked above and tell me those average salaries are "extraordinary". Some might be slightly higher than their private sector averages, some will be lower. Do you want to do the research yourself and tell me which ones are which and which ones you deem "extraordinary"? You're the one making such a ridiculous claim so I would think you would have those figures on hand.
And why is the federal budget in such disarray? Why that's the topic of another thread, but the short answer is lazy federal employees - obviously! (see what I did there? )
People have mentioned contractors many times on this forum.
When you challenge a child the child often says you "hate" them.
A lot of children are spoiled...they just expect everything to be given to them and never expect to hear "no" once in a while.
I guess all of the people who were laid off over the last few years were "hated" by their employers, right?
I don't have enough money to purchase a congressman but, yeah I guess I can send them letters to be put in the circular file, usual.
If I am paying for something because if I don't I go to jail, then excuse me if I care where that money goes. Only an entitled, spoiled government worker would be offended by that. It is not up to me to prove the validity of a bureaucracy; it is up to the bureaucracy to prove the validity of its existence.
So much emotion from people who are scared of a .001% cut in federal workers while real America has to deal with 9.1% unemployment. Again, please show me ANY group of Americans who don't depend on da Gubment pay who support your positions.
If my viewpoints were some fringe, right-wing element then why do SO many people DISAPPROVE of Obama's policies?
I will leave you and this debate with one major piece of advice. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN. Even if your letter is folded into a paper football it will have a bigger effect then 15 pages of rants on a message board about cities. I don't often jump into these kinds of heated debates online but I am glad to see you are no longer only raging at half the fed workforce and that you acknowledge the massive private sector beneficiaries of federal spending.
I will leave you and this debate with one major piece of advice. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN. Even if your letter is folded into a paper football it will have a bigger effect then 15 pages of rants on a message board about cities. I don't often jump into these kinds of heated debates online but I am glad to see you are no longer only raging at half the fed workforce and that you acknowledge the massive private sector beneficiaries of federal spending.
I haven't written 15 pages of rants. I have contributed by trying to inject reality into a one-sided conversation. D.C. apologists pretend we are not in a recession. In their defense, they are right. If you live in the D.C. area then you are not in a recession thanks to the law that says nearly all Americans must send a large chunk of cash to D.C. every year. Its not their fault, of course. A lot of people have just turned off their moral compass and headed to the D.C. area to siphon off as much cash as possible during this downturn. Survival of the fittest, I guess.
But they should not be surprised that people who have been out of work for months are a little miffed they must still send cash to bureaucrats who are offended that they, too, should feel the effects of a recession. "I mean the gall of Americans outside the Beltway to ask us to participate in the sacrifice".
First you say I'm raging blindly then you bring up something about mobile apps?
Which one of us is just making stuff up again?
So if I suggest some reasonable, logical cuts that millions of Americans clamor for so they could have a little relief from taxes during a recession that means I hate government?
You want to help Indians? Write a check. In fact, many little agencies can go away and be replaced with Americans writing checks for their pet causes. We are in a recession. Each tax dollar should be precious. Things are tough out here outside of the royal federal bubble.
Where did I state I want "individual staff performing at 100% efficiency"?
I have no problem with shrinking government (especially once we recover from the recession) and you're again uninformed if you think people aren't directly aware of the struggles or that we haven't experienced the downturn here.
My problem lies in the fact that you simply don't know anything about government and have this caricature created for you by the blogs and media that tries to pit "us versus them". You simply have it all backwards:
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Believe it or not I am all for a LOGICAL AND LIMITED expansion of the federal government DURING ECONOMIC EXPANSION.
Experience globally has proven that government should actually step down in influence when the markets are thriving and increase their role when markets are struggling.
Your solution is to say that since the market is struggling, then so too should the government. What you don't grasp is that many of these "real Americans" live here or moved here to take shelter during the recession because they couldn't get work anywhere besides contractors or the feds. These are normal, middle class people from North Carolina, Michigan, Mississippi and any other number of struggling states who you want to see added to the unemployment numbers because you have been deceived into thinking they're all part of some evil empire determined to ruin the rest of the country.
You are a victim of propaganda and should really diversify your sources of information.
Fact: nearly every middle class working American has received tax cuts during the Obama administration
Fact: Only 12% of Americans know they received a tax cut. 24% mistakenly believe taxes have gone up under Obama and 53% think their rate has stayed the same (the power of propaganda is powerful)
Fact: the economy is still teetering, despite massive tax cuts. I'm all for tax cuts, but your solution has already been enacted and has proven to not fix the problem.
To answer your questions, I used mobile apps as an example of what Indian tribes would unrealistically have to do to compete in the free market. Yes, Jujulu, Indian casinos exist off reservations in big cities and anywhere they receive approval to own and manage them. And you're welcome to read your own posts to see where you called for every federal employee to produce at maximum capacity or be fired.
I hope you're beginning to see why this discussion belongs in the Politics forum. Please write your congressman supporting our right to have a voice in the budget's governing body.
To answer your questions, I used mobile apps as an example of what Indian tribes would unrealistically have to do to compete in the free market. Yes, Jujulu, Indian casinos exist off reservations in big cities and anywhere they receive approval to own and manage them. And you're welcome to read your own posts to see where you called for every federal employee to produce at maximum capacity or be fired.
.
But it isn't free market if Indian tribes have a monopoly on the product (casinos) due to laws.
Your reply is a classic example of the liberal motto: "I am right and you are wrong, logic be damned".
Arrogance is not in legion with a logical mind.
You haven't discussed cuts at all.
I am the only one talking about dealing with our massive debt and deficit problems by perhaps letting thousands of entitled, spoiled and (apparently) snobbish federal workers go. For like the 10th time, just because you are a federal worker doesn't mean you are entitled to a cushy permajob because you filled out an application. Americans can't continue to work until April each year 100% for the benefit of Indian pottery sales programs and other such BS.
ANYBODY outside of the protected bubble of the royal federal class can see that clear as day. What the F do you think got Greece in trouble?
LOL. Actually this post is exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for proving my point.
P.S. -I'm not a liberal or a Federal worker.
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. Why would I support special interest quid pro quo for Big Agriculture or the military-industrial complex? Where did I say I was sympathetic to that crap?
