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why not? the 450k house in capital hill was not average for Hill East - it was cherry picked (by me I admit - my point being that there are houses in that area for well below 1 million) . houses in any nabe in virginia are going to be across a range - they will differ not only in size (and for a given # of brs in sq ft) , but in age, condition - also in suburban TH developments end of groups sell/rent for a premium. Some HOAs include substantial recreational facilities, others include none. Ones with garages typically get premiums as well.
We have barebones 1970s THs, and we have "executive" circa 2000 THs (many are larger than 3BR, but not all)
Why not cherrypick? Oh brother.
Your claim was basically "I found a townhouse in Annandale for $1,600! See, told ya!" And that's called cherrypicking. In other words, it's the exception, not the rule. I had a friend who once rented an apartment on Columbia Road a block or two down from 18th Street for $1,100. It would be misleading and actually a bit cruel to tell someone that they could rent an apartment for $1,100 in Adams-Morgan (and this was a nice full, one bedroom place, not a basement or efficiency) based on the experience of one person I know who was able to do that.
So, I mean, do you have a response to that? Your claim was that my claim "was demonstrably false," but the listings on CL don't really show that to be the case. If the median price in an area is $2,100 (which is the median listing price for a 3-BR anything type of unit in Annandale), then that's probably what you should expect to pay.
But I guess your basic point is "There are exceptions to every rule," which is the same obvious point made time and time again in C-D threads.
. If the median price in an area is $2,100 (which is the median listing price for a 3-BR anything type of unit in Annandale), then that's probably what you should expect to pay.
.
if you rent a house at random, sure. but most people don't. They look at the features, size, etc - not just the number of bedrooms, but the square feet - they look at if it has a garage - how old or new it is - what the HOA provides - if its an EOG (end of group)
If you are looking for a cheap house, you will sacrifice the EOG, the larger size, the rec facilities, etc. And you will expect to pay a good deal less than the neighborhood average. Maybe you will have to be lucky and look a long time to find for 1600, but finding one for less than 2100 should be easy.
if you are looking for a house in Hill East, should you expect to pay what the average house costs?
But I guess your basic point is "There are exceptions to every rule," which is the same obvious point made time and time again in C-D threads.
whats the average price for a non-EOG TH, with no garage, no HOA provided rec facilities, built prior to 1980, thats less than 1400 sq feet (thats still 50% bigger than the 450k house in Hill East, BTW)in any of those areas?
yup. In Hill east, in that 450k TLC needing house, you get 978 sq feet.
Quit changing the subject. This is what you said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
go back to CL - search townhouse annandale - one pops up for $1600 a month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
yes a range from 1840 to 2210 at the top. but again, I can find THs as cheap as $1600 in annandale, and SFHs for less than 1900. And if you go just outside the beltway (hardly that distant) in springfield, north springfield, burke, etc you can get better deals (generally newer, better condition, etc).
In response to this, I simply posted every single one of the listings for three bedrooms in the aforementioned areas. And the mean and median rent was nowhere close to $1,600. $1,840 to $2,210 is not the range "at the top" as you said (in an effort to downplay the listings). $1,840 would actually be closer to the bottom, unless, that is, you have some super secret list of inventories to which the rest of us are not privy.
In response to this, I simply posted every single one of the listings for three bedrooms in the aforementioned areas. And the mean and median rent was nowhere close to $1,600. $1,840 to $2,210 is not the range "at the top" as you said (in an effort to downplay the listings). $1,840 would actually be closer to the bottom, unless, that is, you have some super secret list of inventories to which the rest of us are not privy.
I meant 2210 was at the top. IE a range of houses, from 1810 at the bottom of your list, to 2210 at the top. But its possible to find one as low as 1600 (I made no mention of what quality it was or how exhaustive or cruel the search would be to find the best possible bargain).
You seem to have lost the larger picture. The question is, given the development in near SE, and the cost of anything close by WOTR, would some areas (in particular historica Anacostia) EOTR gentrify, with some improvement in safety/perception of safety.
Your response was to cite the 450k TH - ONE house, 978 sq ft, and needing TLC. Which some of us consider not that cheap, even for this region. you stated that anyone with an issue affording it, cant afford this region, except for cheap apt complexes filled with immigrants, or distant suburbs.
That is false. And whats relevant here IS an apples to apples comparison. Someone who cannot afford that 978 SQ ft townhouse, which is not an EOG, has no garage, needs TLC, etc - CAN afford something of equivalent quality (location aside) and larger size in the inner to middle suburbs. (We won't even toss into the mix, a location with better public schools (at least as generally perceived), and lower crime than Hill East. And lower income taxes as well)
Im sorry that craigslist (and the nature of rental listings in general) makes it difficult to sort by the relevant features that drive price. But that does not negate the fact that they DO drive price.
the average rental in a neighborhood is not relevant to the larger question. Any more than the AVERAGE price of townhouse in Hill East.
1. It's cut off by a river
2. The infrastructure is suburban, its not on a grid at all and the streets wind and turn.
3. The housing stock is mostly suburban, nothing but garden style apartments/complexes and single family homes.
4. Even with TOD, yuppies aren't gonna flock to Minnesota ave, Skyland, Benning road (Shrimp Boat area) or any of those places because of the other three thing I've mentioned. Wards 7 and 8 have more in common with PG county than the rest of the city and even the politics show it. Developers can build whatever they want EoTR but the demographics will remain more or less the same. Oh I almost most of EoTR is not walkable like neighborhoods WoTR.
I'll get back on topic now.
I agree with most of the reasons in this post. Certain parts of SEDC like Hillcrest will become increasingly non-black as people get priced out of core neighborhoods and develop a preference for more space. Anacostia is a bit tricky as its surrounded by hood on all sides, and as you said, those garden complexes full of Section 8 residents and Wale look-alikes aren't going anywhere soon. Benning Road is a lost cause. I don't see that area changing much over the next 30 years and it's likely to get even poorer as poor people leave the core neighborhoods. The eastern areas of the city are also in close proximity to the poor areas of P.G. County (Kenilworth, Eastover, Suitland, Capitol Heights), which no one wants to live near.
I meant 2210 was at the top. IE a range of houses, from 1810 at the bottom of your list, to 2210 at the top. But its possible to find one as low as 1600 (I made no mention of what quality it was or how exhaustive or cruel the search would be to find the best possible bargain).
Possible? Yes. Likely? Apparently not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
You seem to have lost the larger picture. The question is, given the development in near SE, and the cost of anything close by WOTR, would some areas (in particular historica Anacostia) EOTR gentrify, with some improvement in safety/perception of safety.
That is the topic. And we clearly got sidetracked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
Your response was to cite the 450k TH - ONE house, 978 sq ft, and needing TLC.
Not quite. I responded to you saying you were frustrated about buying a house west of the river. I then asked you if you considered $450K affordable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Didn't you just point out the other day that a rowhouse within footsteps of the Potomac Avenue metro could be purchased for as little as $450,000? You don't consider that affordable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Which some of us consider not that cheap, even for this region. you stated that anyone with an issue affording it, cant afford this region, except for cheap apt complexes filled with immigrants, or distant suburbs.
I said that a mortgage on a $450,000 house would be around $2,100 given current rates. And that $2,100 is about what you would expect to pay to live in something comparable in most of the metro area. Ergo, if you balk at the notion of a $2,100 payment, then you're probably better off moving somewhere else because that's what people pay.
Unless, that is, you plan to live in a cubby hole basement apartment for the rest of your life, a poor immigrant community, or a hole up in a one-bedroom condo for the next 30 years. Or go to the distant suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
That is false.
We're talking about the 27 properites I listed versus the one you found. I mean, your argument would be much more persuasive if you found, like 10 properties at that price point. And you know this, but you're just being difficult as always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Im sorry that craigslist (and the nature of rental listings in general) makes it difficult to sort by the relevant features that drive price. But that does not negate the fact that they DO drive price.
No, you're not.
It really doesn't matter what features and amenities the house offers. If you claim that there are all of these cheap deals to be found, then I expect to see them. Period. And I don't. And that's the bottom line.
I mean, I think it's rather obvious that a house in Virginia will on average be larger than a house in Washington, DC. The DC property will be more expensive by the square foot. No question. But at the end of the day, if you need three rooms, you need three rooms (not one or two), and you're clearly not getting those three rooms in Annandale for $1,600. That's basically something you won't admit.
And that $2,100 is about what you would expect to pay to live in something comparable in most of the metro area.
...
I mean, I think it's rather obvious that a house in Virginia will on average be larger than a house in Washington, DC. The DC property will be more expensive by the square foot. No question. But at the end of the day, if you need three rooms, you need three rooms (sic - i think you mean 3 bedrooms- BBD) (not one or two), and you're clearly not getting those three rooms in Annandale for $1,600.
I guess to me total sq footage is more important in comarability than actual number of bedrooms. Clearly not to all, which is why folks sometimes build partitions, why builders (of apts especially) design new units with really small BRs, etc.
For folks with kids, especially folks with two opposite gender kids, that 3rd bedroom (regardless of size) is a big deal. For groups of three roommates it is as well.
OTOH for single folks or couples, its not so important. Total space is likely to be more important.
But yeah, if comparability, for any given person, is more about # of BRs than about sq feet, then Hill East is more affordable relative to the inner and middle suburbs then I have indicated.
I do hope whoever buys that 450k townhome, and decides that the 978 sq feet works for them, in making their decision, take into account the positives (very good location compared to the rest of the metro area, and the tax deduction and appreciation potential vs renting) and the negatives (which include maintenance costs vs renting, and the cost to renovate vs other houses - both the 600k houses in Hill East, and the under 400k ths in the suburbs)
I guess to me total sq footage is more important in comarability than actual number of bedrooms. Clearly not to all, which is why folks sometimes build partitions, why builders (of apts especially) design new units with really small BRs, etc.
When I think of "comparability," I think of rooms. To me, it's a given that a unit is going to cost more in DC by the square foot (and generally be smaller). I think most people approach it with the idea that "a one bedroom in Adams-Morgan costs more than a one bedroom in Laurel" or "a two bedroom in Bowie is cheaper than a two bedroom in Shaw." I think this is the way most people think about it when making the comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
For folks with kids, especially folks with two opposite gender kids, that 3rd bedroom (regardless of size) is a big deal. For groups of three roommates it is as well.
Definitely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad
OTOH for single folks or couples, its not so important. Total space is likely to be more important.
Well, as I said, housing in the city and the burbs will rarely be comparable on a square footage basis. It's simply difficult to find a two-bedroom, two bathroom apartment in DC with walk-in closets, kitchen island, balcony and jacuzzi tub whereas it's much easier to find them in Silver Spring or Greenbelt. The majority of units are just inherently different and there's not that much negotiation on space to be done. So I think most people go into the home buying process (or apartment hunting process) in DC knowing that they're not going to get as much space as they could in Upper Marlboro (or the wrap around deck, BBQ pit, or driveway).
That said, I think most people look at the number of rooms first, not the square footage. I think most people, single or otherwise, go looking for places with a specific number of rooms in mind. The square footage really only matters when comparing two or more places in the city (or two or more places in the suburbs). That's why I think the number of rooms is the proper benchmark. It's almost a given that the city apartment will be smaller.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 02-15-2013 at 10:24 AM..
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