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I would also guess that those who find Metro adequate probably live in the city, where they are less subjected to the problems that plague the system for non-DC residents; single tracking, massive delays, lack of parking, and a pricing structure that makes taking Metro totally uncompetitive with just driving. And as I repeatedly sit in massive local traffic jams filled largely with single-passenger auto commuters, I can't help but believe that taking cars off the road should be a top priority of Metro. Which it's obviously not.
It's simply astounding that our local govts can apparently do nothing to fix our traffic problems. I am a huge supporter of public transit, and firmly believe an improved Metro is the best answer......but only by actively trying to get cars off the road.
The best indicator of the mediocrity of Metro is the "votes" cast by people who can choose to ride it or not. That Metro ridership is DOWN 5% since 2008, while population growth is certainly up, clearly shows what local residents think of the system as a transit option.
Let's see what the new general manager of Metro thinks of the system;
PAUL J. WIEDEFELD, installed late last year as Metro’s general manager, described its dizzying array of problems as “worse than I thought” — an assessment likely to resonate with that of plenty of disillusioned passengers. As for what he can realistically do to make the trains (and escalators) run on time, or at all, that remains to be seen.
....Mr. Wiedefeld seems to have a reasonably sound handle on what ails Metro — admittedly a long list. Striking a blunt note from the outset of a meeting with us, he said the system’s internal communications are lousy; problems get kicked upstairs rather than delegated down; front-line employees are demoralized and disrespected by management; long-term capital projects are prioritized haphazardly; and customer service is an afterthought — or given no thought at all.
“There’s no sense we’re there for the customers,” he said.
As for the relentless emphasis on safety that was supposed to be Metro’s focus in recent years, the new chief said he has not seen much of that either. “We tend to be more focused on compliance, on checking off the box,” than truly incorporating safety into the culture, he said.
a major shortcoming of the metro is that theres no express tracks so single tracking is inevitable when something goes wrong or trackwork needs to be done. furthermore, the roadways are jammed because most of the lucrative work is either in the district or along the beltway in NoVA and montgomery counties. we all know the beltway is going to be jammed unless youre fortunate to live along the orange or silver lines....and speaking of which the worst of the traffic is in NoVA.....outside the silver and orange lines, NoVA is POORLY served by public transit which is a major reason why roadways jam so often out there (along with the fact NoVA residents cant drive worth a darn). Esp along 95. the VRE is limited and I wouldnt trust it if I lived down there. I bet you if they expanded the metro to woodbridge therell be a lot less care on the road. Plus DC's metro has growing pains....remember this is the same system thats still trying to finish a line to dulles which shouldve been done a long time ago but unlike Simcity you cant just build these things whenever you feel like it....
1) Inefficient commuter hub and spoke design- the system was basically designed to get people from downtown office buildings to their suburban homes. As a result, it misses many key DC neighborhoods: Georgetown, Adams Morgan, Logan Circle, H Street, North Capitol, etc Fix: hate to say it, but this is a deep structural reality of the system. We are going to have to live with it for the foreseeable future.
2) Infrequent off peak headways- trains run way to infrequently off peak hours. Track work is a disaster, but even when there isn't track work the headways are still too long. The system should aim for 8-10 min inside the city off peak. Fix: If track work ever ends than perhaps this will help the system out somewhat. Ideally service would be increased in the city off peak. My understanding is the system is not well designed for that, type of zoned service. But, increasing train frequency seems easier than problem #1.
3) Drab appearance and feel- the Metro tunnels maybe we a work of art. But, IMO, they are downright depressing and dull. The NYC subway maybe a dump, but at least it is a lively inviting dump. Musicians, people watching, retail, ornate architecture, etc. Fix: the architecture is here to stay. But, ideally the system could become a little lighter, more retail/music, etc. Part of the problem is the system is so little used on the weekeds it sucks away from some of the people watching you would get in a city like NYC/London/Paris. Improving weekend headways would help a bit.
2) Staffing and management issues- The system seems disorganized and poorly run on an operational standpoint. Metro has some amazing employees. But, the system does seem to have the "job for life" problem. Customer service is pretty uneven. I'm sure dealing with angry commuters isn't fun. But, sometimes the staff is just downright rude and unhelpful. Fix: this is hard in public organizations where you can't remove bad employees. But, hopefully, improved management could help with some of the coordination failures and to perhaps improve customer service a bit.
Using the New York forum is not a good example to make your point. The extremists and retards I run into and regularly curse at over there makes this forum look like a hippie commune. the MTA in New York has a lot of people of color working for it too, theres just alot more hispanic and a growing number of asian (esp indian and bangladeshi) workers.
The New York forum is a perfect example to make my point.
My friend, are you pulling the Jedi Mind Trick ? Telling us that Metro isn't so bad, then going into detail about.....why Metro is pretty much worse than bad ?
Yes, tons of areas are poorly served. (And as mentioned, parking and fare rates prices suburban users out anyways.)
Yes, there are CONSTANTLY delays......causing suburban commuters to be unwilling to tolerate the inconvenience and delays if they're not even getting a cost break.
Yes, their construction of new lines (or anything really - see Silver Spring transit center) is laughably incompetent. And these clowns are advocating construction of a new Purple Line ???!!
In short.....pretty much exactly as I stated.......for anyone but DC residents, Metro basically sucks.
You talk about obvious reasons why there are so many cars on the road....but Metro should take some (many) of those cars OFF the roads. But it doesn't, because people won't ride the system, and the system's set up to have the barest level of competence and utility possible. NOT to actually serve the region.
I don't mean this to sound rude, but your posting seems to me to basically be excuse-making for the incompetent state of public transit in our region, and the incompetent *cough* leaders the created this.
....among many other things.
Dont twist my words sherlock......i never said the system didnt have shortcomings.....but to me its not too bad. Why?
- many large cities, including cities 2x 3x DC's size dont even have any kind of rail system to move people around (ie Houston, Indianapolis Columbus OH)
- If they do, its a buncha crap light rail messy trolley lines or one or 2 lines that barely travel a decent distance that are nowhere NEAR as reliable as DC's metro (Ie Baltimore)
- if the metro is really OH SO BAD then explain to me how gentrification is 5x more likely to hit a given area near a metro station
- even though NoVA can be much better served by the metro, its STILL an alternative im sure people in the sunbelt would love to have access to.
- DC's metro isnt even 40 years old.....u really expect a subway system of a NYC Boston or Chicago caliber, let alone paris or london to be built to that extent in such short time???????????? are you serious?????
- Speaking of Boston DC metro is almost on their level and caliber (although their fare system is alot better) and DC's metro actually serves their inner suburbs alot better. In boston if you aint from cambridge, Brookline or braintree your SOL and have to use commuter rail (which is not exactly the same thing) Heck in DC the ghettos (or whats left of them) are pretty well served. The boston ghettos havent had close train service since they destroyed the old orange line in 1987.
-Would u prefer to be in a city where public transportation means buses that come once a hour? cuz thats public transport in many parts of the country once you leave the coasts
- im sure before prices plunged metro parking fees were cheaper per week than the money u spent filling your gas tank every couple days....
- granted, DC is much smaller than these places but its coverage within city limits is superb. In New York City Chicago Boston heck even parts of London theres large swatch of the city that are not served by the system (ie half of queens most of roxbury mattapan hydepark and half of dorchester, Croydon and teh far reaches of london, 1/2 the south side of chicago).
I dont mean to be rude but all systems have their shortcomings....Metro is definitely not exempt but it can be a whole lot worse. Either suck it up and deal, move closer to a metro station or leave the area. Either way put your big boy pants on and STOP CRYING!
The New York forum is a perfect example to make my point.
Thats only one series...the 7000. the other editions have carpeted floors. u talk as if at least half the system uses the 7000 series. I didnt even know these existed until u posted that article so that alone says its nowhere near as commonplace as the other series' of railcars.
And no the new york forum is a poor example. If you wanna win a debate or get taken seriously your arguments need to be factual and logical, something most people in the NYC forum are not capable of doing. So no my argument stands its a pi$$ poor example.
Thats only one series...the 7000. the other editions have carpeted floors. u talk as if at least half the system uses the 7000 series. I didnt even know these existed until u posted that article so that alone says its nowhere near as commonplace as the other series' of railcars.
And no the new york forum is a poor example. If you wanna win a debate or get taken seriously your arguments need to be factual and logical, something most people in the NYC forum are not capable of doing. So no my argument stands its a pi$$ poor example.
Sorry, but ignorance about the Metro system is not a good argument. You made the point that Metro needs to discontinue carpet in their trains. I then told you that they did. You then argued that you had never seen a train with no carpet. I then told you it doesn't matter what you saw because Metro has discontinued carpet.
You have no point. Time to move on.
Also, many of the 6000 series have had their carpet removed as well. So there you go.
Also, the NYC forum is a perfect example to support my argument. You disagreeing doesn't mean anything.
Sorry, but ignorance about the Metro system is not a good argument. You made the point that Metro needs to discontinue carpet in their trains. I then told you that they did. You then argued that you had never seen a train with no carpet. I then told you it doesn't matter what you saw because Metro has discontinued carpet.
You have no point. Time to move on.
Also, many of the 6000 series have had their carpet removed as well. So there you go.
Also, the NYC forum is a perfect example to support my argument. You disagreeing doesn't mean anything.
doesnt change the fact theyre not commonplace. which is the basis of my whole argument. granted, im glad newer models discontinued them.......but until theyre commonplace and theres at least a 1 in 3 chance ill ride a 7000 series rail car, my complaint is still valid. the problems that come with carpeted rail cars will not start to significnantly dissapear for a while so my complaint is still effectively a valid one. furthermore it took you telling me and then validating your claims through my own research to even agree that newer models have discontinued carpeted rail cars.......which means that unless you ride the metro EVERY SINGLE DAY or watch the news enough to hear about new metro developments, new railcars having no carpet is not common knowledge.....probably because almost 7 times out of 7 youre in a metro train with carpet...
Oh and now that i decided to do some research this is what i found.....
apparently only a tiny TINY fraction of the fleet uses them and it seems its primarily the silver blue or red lines (which i almost NEVER use). THey just started rolling them out in spring 2015 and a good portion of them are being tested and trained on. So yeah tell me again how my complaint about carpet is invalid considering and overwhelming majority of the system still uses them. the most you can say is Metro is actively trying to change that and had u JUST SAID that I wouldnt be debating and disputing this with you....
i think youre arguing just for the sake of disagreeing.......ive made my points and now youre just using weak comebacks just to challenge me.......either get your weight up or just stop dude
Last edited by shooter2219; 02-09-2016 at 11:20 PM..
Or agree to disagree and let those reading your argument decide what they want to believe, you both made your points.
One advantage of this solution to this silly conflict is that it doesn't involve a mod stepping in. Think about it
Yac.
- Speaking of Boston DC metro is almost on their level and caliber (although their fare system is alot better) and DC's metro actually serves their inner suburbs alot better. In boston if you aint from cambridge, Brookline or braintree your SOL and have to use commuter rail (which is not exactly the same thing) Heck in DC the ghettos (or whats left of them) are pretty well served. The boston ghettos havent had close train service since they destroyed the old orange line in 1987.
I think Metro blows Boston's T away and same for Philly's "Subway" system. Those things are like a 1930s history museum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodfin
Yes, their construction of new lines (or anything really - see Silver Spring transit center) is laughably incompetent. And these clowns are advocating construction of a new Purple Line ???!!
Silver Spring Transit Center was built by Montgomery County, not Metro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219
doesnt change the fact theyre not commonplace. which is the basis of my whole argument. granted, im glad newer models discontinued them.......but until theyre commonplace and theres at least a 1 in 3 chance ill ride a 7000 series rail car, my complaint is still valid. the problems that come with carpeted rail cars will not start to significnantly dissapear for a while so my complaint is still effectively a valid one. furthermore it took you telling me and then validating your claims through my own research to even agree that newer models have discontinued carpeted rail cars.......which means that unless you ride the metro EVERY SINGLE DAY or watch the news enough to hear about new metro developments, new railcars having no carpet is not common knowledge.....probably because almost 7 times out of 7 youre in a metro train with carpet...
Oh and now that i decided to do some research this is what i found.....
apparently only a tiny TINY fraction of the fleet uses them and it seems its primarily the silver blue or red lines (which i almost NEVER use). THey just started rolling them out in spring 2015 and a good portion of them are being tested and trained on. So yeah tell me again how my complaint about carpet is invalid considering and overwhelming majority of the system still uses them. the most you can say is Metro is actively trying to change that and had u JUST SAID that I wouldnt be debating and disputing this with you....
i think youre arguing just for the sake of disagreeing.......ive made my points and now youre just using weak comebacks just to challenge me.......either get your weight up or just stop dude
Calm down dude. It's valid, but carpeting is become less and less common. 80%+ of the front and end cars don't have carpeting. I pretty much never ride in a car that has carpeting on the Green Line, so it really is not that uncommon.
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