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Old 01-10-2017, 05:01 AM
 
9,583 posts, read 10,915,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT93 View Post
---

There is a lot of vacant land and abandoned storefronts over in EOTR. So much of it are also by the Metro stations on that side. So no one would have to bulldoze any rowhomes on off streets. Look on MLK Ave, Good Hope rd, Penn Ave SE, Benning Rd NE/SE, Minnesota Ave Ne/SE, East Capitol St SE, Alabame Ave SE, etc. - and you'll see the vacant land or rundown/abandoned storefronts. Many of which, can be demolished and build into apartments with retail and/or class A office buildings. You're trying to make it seem like EOTR is impossible to be developed. I honestly would love to see class A office buildings and luxury apartments (with relaxed height limits - or not) near the Metro stations and other areas in EOTR.
This is what I already explained to that poster and he/she still doesn't get it. DC built along avenues and main corridors in the core. We don't need to bulldoze neighborhoods. I don't think this poster has spent much time EOTR. There is so much vacant land and blight to build on you don't need to displace anybody.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:52 AM
 
165 posts, read 113,185 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is what I already explained to that poster and he/she still doesn't get it. DC built along avenues and main corridors in the core. We don't need to bulldoze neighborhoods. I don't think this poster has spent much time EOTR. There is so much vacant land and blight to build on you don't need to displace anybody.
Either he/she haven't been or has an emotional attachment to EOTR, where as they don't want to see EOTR develop so he/she is making up excuses as to why it can't happen. Sure, some housing projects would benefit from being redeveloped into market rate apartments (or luxury) but many of them do not have to be demolished (not yet atleast) due to so much vacant land/abandoned storefronts.

I honestly wish we didn't put such an illusion on a "height limit." Environmental issues are understandable, but this whole "the building is gonna block my views" excuse shouldn't limit such buildings getting built. No one should be able to dictate what a developer builds on the plot of land they've purchased. I'm not talking about build 40+ story apartment buildings in DC. Maybe a few 15-20 stories here and there. But nothing to extreme.

It wouldn't hurt to have, lets say, 16 story apartment buildings by EOTR Metro stations. That's only 2 extra floors since 14 stories is the highest you can build in DC. That's only an additional 16-20 feet of height. Doesn't seem like much, but it'll still be more units. Plus, the views of the Capitol and Monument would be tremendous. I notice that in some parts of EOTR, you can see great views of Rosslyn/Pentagon and the monument in one picture.

Google Map: 2629 Stanton Rd SE DC 20020 - Washington View Apartments --- They have a great shot of views.

It would be such ashame if someone was to redevelop those buildings and add a few more stories for more defined views.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:21 AM
 
784 posts, read 843,703 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
So what is the problem? It won't be fast? Who said it would be fast?

DC's height limit actually allows faster development because a 10-14 story building goes up a lot faster than a 30-80 story building (at least these days). I know the Empire State Building went up on one year, but that doesn't happen anymore.

How long do you expect these old people to live if they are already old? Many might need to move in with family or into nursing homes pretty soon. This is also not a "nice" part of town so if you offer people decent money a lot of them will take it just to get away from the crime and other decay.

I think it will be much easier than you think.
But see heres the thing about that.....some of these older folks will simply pass the property on to their middle aged children or even their grown grandchildren in some cases. And despite all the problems with poverty and crime over the years not everyone wants to leave. Granted, a cool $200,000 $300,000 may be all it takes for some to leave the area, esp if they have property in the carolinas they wanna buy but some others itll take at least $500,000. Multiply that times how many properties there are and how many stubborn not easily bought homeowners there are and that money will add up. Not to mention some of these homeowners cant be bought out so theyll probably just have to resort to legal loopholes to get them off their property.....which can take numerous court battles ESP if they are educated on how to get legal representation (I saw this happen with the metropolitan buildings on Rhode Island Ave NE). Plus they said how Barry Farms was gonna get knocked down and redeveloped and last I heard and saw (and this was a couple nights ago) most of the Farms still has people living in them. At most their just waiting for higher buyouts to leave. They said they were gonna do the same in sursum cordas. Same situation.

All im really saying is that its not gonna be as quick of a turnover as opposed to just buying buildings rehabbing them and reopening them for a higher rent......

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT93 View Post
---

There is a lot of vacant land and abandoned storefronts over in EOTR. So much of it are also by the Metro stations on that side. So no one would have to bulldoze any rowhomes on off streets. Look on MLK Ave, Good Hope rd, Penn Ave SE, Benning Rd NE/SE, Minnesota Ave Ne/SE, East Capitol St SE, Alabame Ave SE, etc. - and you'll see the vacant land or rundown/abandoned storefronts. Many of which, can be demolished and build into apartments with retail and/or class A office buildings. You're trying to make it seem like EOTR is impossible to be developed. I honestly would love to see class A office buildings and luxury apartments (with relaxed height limits - or not) near the Metro stations and other areas in EOTR.
Ive driven on all those strips repeatedly. Youre making it sound like this is west baltimore, detroit, east St Louis or the south bronx in the 1980s. Those are low density strips but theyre not vacant by any means. And theres not as many abandoned storefronts as you think. Granted theyre mostly liquor stores unemployment offices, carryouts and the americas best wings franchise locations but theyre still occupied. and alot of those strips arent even all retail. theres alot of single family houses, apt complexes and semi detached rowhouses on those strips and I find this ESPECIALLY true on East Capitol St and Alabama Ave. Most of the retail on alabama is based on 2 large shopping plazas at naylor road and at congress heights (where the IHOP is). Minnesota ave is a even mix of low budget stores/gas stations, rowhouses, and apt complexes. Benning Road only has retail and restaurants at major intersections with Minnesota Ave, East Capitol Street and to a lesser extent southern Ave. The rest is mostly low rent apt complexes. You can easily buy out the apt complexes and just jack up rents on existing property but to INCREASE DENSITY would require you to bulldoze for larger apartment buildings. Since most of Deanwood and SE is built like this this would be nothing short of a complete face lift to the area......

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
This is what I already explained to that poster and he/she still doesn't get it. DC built along avenues and main corridors in the core. We don't need to bulldoze neighborhoods. I don't think this poster has spent much time EOTR. There is so much vacant land and blight to build on you don't need to displace anybody.
I can probably bet cold hard cash ive probably spent alot more time in that side of town than 95% of the posters here on this board (esp the posters who keep commenting on these threads). I dont say this for cool points or validation from random "people" on a message board but I wouldnt be so adamant on expressing my opinion if I hadnt spent as much time as i have in that area. My knowledge is not based off the street view of google maps or going off hearsay from what some real estate blog told me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDT93 View Post
Either he/she haven't been or has an emotional attachment to EOTR, where as they don't want to see EOTR develop so he/she is making up excuses as to why it can't happen. Sure, some housing projects would benefit from being redeveloped into market rate apartments (or luxury) but many of them do not have to be demolished (not yet atleast) due to so much vacant land/abandoned storefronts.

I honestly wish we didn't put such an illusion on a "height limit." Environmental issues are understandable, but this whole "the building is gonna block my views" excuse shouldn't limit such buildings getting built. No one should be able to dictate what a developer builds on the plot of land they've purchased. I'm not talking about build 40+ story apartment buildings in DC. Maybe a few 15-20 stories here and there. But nothing to extreme.

It wouldn't hurt to have, lets say, 16 story apartment buildings by EOTR Metro stations. That's only 2 extra floors since 14 stories is the highest you can build in DC. That's only an additional 16-20 feet of height. Doesn't seem like much, but it'll still be more units. Plus, the views of the Capitol and Monument would be tremendous. I notice that in some parts of EOTR, you can see great views of Rosslyn/Pentagon and the monument in one picture.

Google Map: 2629 Stanton Rd SE DC 20020 - Washington View Apartments --- They have a great shot of views.

It would be such ashame if someone was to redevelop those buildings and add a few more stories for more defined views.

This brings me back to my earlier point. the current height limit is 14. Most of the apt complexes with the exception of marbury plaza and a couple buildings on Southern ave and Wheeler Rd are barely more than 4-5 stories tall in that side of town.....were not even discussing gentrification right now this is more about density....which requires larger buildings that "EOTR" currently does not have. To achieve the kind of density youre talking about is gonna require alot of the lower density housing to be demolished. theres not as many vacant lots on that side of town as you think.....If we were talking detroit east St Louis or some abandoned slum like that you could just build build and build some more on vacant city owned land.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:34 AM
 
9,583 posts, read 10,915,282 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
But see heres the thing about that.....some of these older folks will simply pass the property on to their middle aged children or even their grown grandchildren in some cases. And despite all the problems with poverty and crime over the years not everyone wants to leave. Granted, a cool $200,000 $300,000 may be all it takes for some to leave the area, esp if they have property in the carolinas they wanna buy but some others itll take at least $500,000. Multiply that times how many properties there are and how many stubborn not easily bought homeowners there are and that money will add up. Not to mention some of these homeowners cant be bought out so theyll probably just have to resort to legal loopholes to get them off their property.....which can take numerous court battles ESP if they are educated on how to get legal representation (I saw this happen with the metropolitan buildings on Rhode Island Ave NE). Plus they said how Barry Farms was gonna get knocked down and redeveloped and last I heard and saw (and this was a couple nights ago) most of the Farms still has people living in them. At most their just waiting for higher buyouts to leave. They said they were gonna do the same in sursum cordas. Same situation.

All im really saying is that its not gonna be as quick of a turnover as opposed to just buying buildings rehabbing them and reopening them for a higher rent......



Ive driven on all those strips repeatedly. Youre making it sound like this is west baltimore, detroit, east St Louis or the south bronx in the 1980s. Those are low density strips but theyre not vacant by any means. And theres not as many abandoned storefronts as you think. Granted theyre mostly liquor stores unemployment offices, carryouts and the americas best wings franchise locations but theyre still occupied. and alot of those strips arent even all retail. theres alot of single family houses, apt complexes and semi detached rowhouses on those strips and I find this ESPECIALLY true on East Capitol St and Alabama Ave. Most of the retail on alabama is based on 2 large shopping plazas at naylor road and at congress heights (where the IHOP is). Minnesota ave is a even mix of low budget stores/gas stations, rowhouses, and apt complexes. Benning Road only has retail and restaurants at major intersections with Minnesota Ave, East Capitol Street and to a lesser extent southern Ave. The rest is mostly low rent apt complexes. You can easily buy out the apt complexes and just jack up rents on existing property but to INCREASE DENSITY would require you to bulldoze for larger apartment buildings. Since most of Deanwood and SE is built like this this would be nothing short of a complete face lift to the area......



I can probably bet cold hard cash ive probably spent alot more time in that side of town than 95% of the posters here on this board (esp the posters who keep commenting on these threads). I dont say this for cool points or validation from random "people" on a message board but I wouldnt be so adamant on expressing my opinion if I hadnt spent as much time as i have in that area. My knowledge is not based off the street view of google maps or going off hearsay from what some real estate blog told me.




This brings me back to my earlier point. the current height limit is 14. Most of the apt complexes with the exception of marbury plaza and a couple buildings on Southern ave and Wheeler Rd are barely more than 4-5 stories tall in that side of town.....were not even discussing gentrification right now this is more about density....which requires larger buildings that "EOTR" currently does not have. To achieve the kind of density youre talking about is gonna require alot of the lower density housing to be demolished. theres not as many vacant lots on that side of town as you think.....If we were talking detroit east St Louis or some abandoned slum like that you could just build build and build some more on vacant city owned land.
Well, I live EOTR. Bought a house over here 2 years ago. I have 5 friends that also bought over here. You're seriously mistaken. Average prices for fully renovated 800 sq feet above grade/1200 sq feet total rowhomes was around $230k-$260k in 2015. They are now approaching $400k for fully renovated 800 sq feet above grade/1200 sq foot homes. Go on Redfin and look at the prices now in 2017. It isn't even spring or summer when prices will spike. That size is the most common floor plan in 20019 and asking for these homes is about to be $400k-$500k within a year. There are three houses being renovated on my street right now and an apartment building. You have to be able to afford about $400k to live in this neighborhood now. Things are changing.

Every single corner store can be redeveloped on all major corridors. There are opportunities everywhere.

Last edited by MDAllstar; 01-10-2017 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:48 PM
 
2,696 posts, read 1,714,645 times
Reputation: 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
But see heres the thing about that.....some of these older folks will simply pass the property on to their middle aged children or even their grown grandchildren in some cases. And despite all the problems with poverty and crime over the years not everyone wants to leave. Granted, a cool $200,000 $300,000 may be all it takes for some to leave the area, esp if they have property in the carolinas they wanna buy but some others itll take at least $500,000. Multiply that times how many properties there are and how many stubborn not easily bought homeowners there are and that money will add up. Not to mention some of these homeowners cant be bought out so theyll probably just have to resort to legal loopholes to get them off their property.....which can take numerous court battles ESP if they are educated on how to get legal representation (I saw this happen with the metropolitan buildings on Rhode Island Ave NE). Plus they said how Barry Farms was gonna get knocked down and redeveloped and last I heard and saw (and this was a couple nights ago) most of the Farms still has people living in them. At most their just waiting for higher buyouts to leave. They said they were gonna do the same in sursum cordas. Same situation.

All im really saying is that its not gonna be as quick of a turnover as opposed to just buying buildings rehabbing them and reopening them for a higher rent......
I don't think anyone made the claim that it would be "quick".

You might think paying people millions to bulldoze their neighborhood is a serious "road block" but that's seeing the small picture. Developers think big picture. Not just years.. but decades down the road. DC is the capital of the United States. The Real Estate has built-in value. When you consider inflation over the next 20-50 years.. there is much more money to be made by bulldozing EOTR than money lost paying off homeowners and fighting legal battles. You only have to bulldoze the place one time. After that.. the land pays you back indefinitely for years, decades or more. Big picture.

Right now EOTR is actually seen as "losing money" the longer it stays in decay. Reason being.. if high income people and businesses were using that space.. they would be generating more tax dollars for the city and driving the economy more with restaurants and hotels. So the city benefits more from siding with developers than with "the common folk". Especially if "the common folk" are in a low tax bracket and not driving the economic engine of the city much. This is why gentrification cannot be stopped.

In the end.. if the "powers that be" want to bulldoze EOTR, they will find a way.

Last edited by Chriz Brown; 01-10-2017 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:19 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,062,796 times
Reputation: 3383
^ Why u always rappin? All you do is boast about is putting the final nail in the coffin on low income black neighborhoods, so white people can move there. You must think you know everything, but you really don't. Everything depends on the economy and most of these developers are investing off credit anyway, money they don't even have.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:29 PM
 
165 posts, read 113,185 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ Why u always rappin? All you talk about is putting the final nail in the coffin of black neighborhoods through krakkafication. Gtfoh. You must think you know everything, but you really don't. Everything depends on the economy and most of these developers are investing off credit anyway, money they don't even have.
How many of these vacant plots of land and abandoned storefronts, and low income housing porjects do the people in the neighborhoods own? And if owners of them wanted to sell to a developer, that's their business. Atleast it'll bring jobs to those underserved neighborhoods. Development would also lead to more Police presence, which will mean the crime will be reduced. How can anyone be proud to live in crime ridden neighborhoods with a lack of options healthy food choices in beyond me.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:38 PM
 
165 posts, read 113,185 times
Reputation: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
But see heres the thing about that.....some of these older folks will simply pass the property on to their middle aged children or even their grown grandchildren in some cases. And despite all the problems with poverty and crime over the years not everyone wants to leave. Granted, a cool $200,000 $300,000 may be all it takes for some to leave the area, esp if they have property in the carolinas they wanna buy but some others itll take at least $500,000. Multiply that times how many properties there are and how many stubborn not easily bought homeowners there are and that money will add up. Not to mention some of these homeowners cant be bought out so theyll probably just have to resort to legal loopholes to get them off their property.....which can take numerous court battles ESP if they are educated on how to get legal representation (I saw this happen with the metropolitan buildings on Rhode Island Ave NE). Plus they said how Barry Farms was gonna get knocked down and redeveloped and last I heard and saw (and this was a couple nights ago) most of the Farms still has people living in them. At most their just waiting for higher buyouts to leave. They said they were gonna do the same in sursum cordas. Same situation.

All im really saying is that its not gonna be as quick of a turnover as opposed to just buying buildings rehabbing them and reopening them for a higher rent......



Ive driven on all those strips repeatedly. Youre making it sound like this is west baltimore, detroit, east St Louis or the south bronx in the 1980s. Those are low density strips but theyre not vacant by any means. And theres not as many abandoned storefronts as you think. Granted theyre mostly liquor stores unemployment offices, carryouts and the americas best wings franchise locations but theyre still occupied. and alot of those strips arent even all retail. theres alot of single family houses, apt complexes and semi detached rowhouses on those strips and I find this ESPECIALLY true on East Capitol St and Alabama Ave. Most of the retail on alabama is based on 2 large shopping plazas at naylor road and at congress heights (where the IHOP is). Minnesota ave is a even mix of low budget stores/gas stations, rowhouses, and apt complexes. Benning Road only has retail and restaurants at major intersections with Minnesota Ave, East Capitol Street and to a lesser extent southern Ave. The rest is mostly low rent apt complexes. You can easily buy out the apt complexes and just jack up rents on existing property but to INCREASE DENSITY would require you to bulldoze for larger apartment buildings. Since most of Deanwood and SE is built like this this would be nothing short of a complete face lift to the area......



I can probably bet cold hard cash ive probably spent alot more time in that side of town than 95% of the posters here on this board (esp the posters who keep commenting on these threads). I dont say this for cool points or validation from random "people" on a message board but I wouldnt be so adamant on expressing my opinion if I hadnt spent as much time as i have in that area. My knowledge is not based off the street view of google maps or going off hearsay from what some real estate blog told me.




This brings me back to my earlier point. the current height limit is 14. Most of the apt complexes with the exception of marbury plaza and a couple buildings on Southern ave and Wheeler Rd are barely more than 4-5 stories tall in that side of town.....were not even discussing gentrification right now this is more about density....which requires larger buildings that "EOTR" currently does not have. To achieve the kind of density youre talking about is gonna require alot of the lower density housing to be demolished. theres not as many vacant lots on that side of town as you think.....If we were talking detroit east St Louis or some abandoned slum like that you could just build build and build some more on vacant city owned land.

Umm, I've driven on that side of town rencently as well. It looks just as it does on google maps. Vancant/abandoned lots of land, lack of amenities, some parts are so isolated with poor bus service, no funtional parks on par to Meridian Hill park or Rock Creek (not size wise), not to mention CRIME!

Look at MLK Ave, Good Hope Rd, Minnesota Ave (East River Shopping Center can be developed - along with the parcel across the street with the DTLR). Plenty of optuons. No need to knock down existing buildings (not yet). I would atleast like to see 10 story apartments built near the metro (on the vacant/abandoned land - which have no low income projects).
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,062,796 times
Reputation: 3383
^ Too bad you bought that line, but it is not a fact. Every low income black neighborhood is not crime-ridden, and developers don't hire people from the neighborhood, for the most part. Blacks have enough pigs in the hood as it is anyway, and if mostly white folks move in and take over, those same pigs will be nowhere in sight.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:14 PM
 
2,696 posts, read 1,714,645 times
Reputation: 1856
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ Why u always rappin? All you do is boast about is putting the final nail in the coffin on low income black neighborhoods, so white people can move there. You must think you know everything, but you really don't. Everything depends on the economy and most of these developers are investing off credit anyway, money they don't even have.
I don't know why you make everything into a racial issue. You clearly have some kind of complex.

I'm talking about DEVELOPMENT in DC.
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