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Loudoun County will not win. Think Seattle. Can the Dulles Corridor offer what downtown Seattle offers? no. There is no culture, nightlife, sports, or anything that a major city like DC can offer. Sure, there is Dulles airport, but less than 1% of Amazon employees will ever need the use of an airport. And a 30-40 minute ride to an airport is not unreasonable.
DC proper gets the nod in my opinion out of the three locations. If located in DC, MD and VA benefit anyway. And because they benefit, Metro would get a huge infusion of cash. Locate it in Loudoun County and you exacerbate the east-west traffic congestion. If you locate it in east DC, there's more balance.
Loudoun County lacks local access to educational institutions. Whereas DC has GW, American, Howard, Georgetown, Catholic U., and Gallaudet within its borders. ANd UMD not far away on the Green Line. THat's impressive.
Two of the sites in DC are near sports venues, Nationals, DC United, and the Wizards/Capitals.
Tell me what Loudoun County has to offer after work is over?
Are you saying that the only reason they want access to an airport is for their employees personal trips?
People in Loudoun do follow the Redskins / Wizards / Capitals / Nationals, and even attend games. It's a suburb after all.
Same with access to educational institutions. They're not that far away.
30 miles taking 2 hours is only during congested times, and there are still many hours of non-congested roads during each day.
Did Amazon say they wanted a place like Seattle? Seattle is Seattle. If that's what they want then build there.
I don't even really like Loudoun that much, but I can see the weakness of your argument. I wouldn't mind if it went to DC, but the site in Loudoun (almost in Fairfax Co) is a pretty good site. I can see them choosing that.
I'll be very surprised if it ends up going to the DC area at all. I see New York, Boston or Toronto being greater possibilities and Atlanta if they want to go cheaper. The only thing that draws Bezos here is his house and the Washington Post. This is all just a lot of angling right now.
What makes Boston more appealing than DC?
I doubt New York because its such an obvious choice. Everyone knows what New York offers without doing much research. If Amazon was really interested in New York they would just move there without going through this bidding war situation.
For a giant company like Amazon, it isn't, though.
People act like DC is a huge city with space for a HQ like Amazon when the city itself is very small. MD or VA suburbs, I can easily see an Amazon HQ. DC...ehhh.
People will make a commute to Loudoun/Fairfax easily from far away. Many people already do this now. That, and for the whole "nightlife/things to do" aspect, going out in DC is cool every once in a while, or if you're 20-25ish, but I know several people who enjoy being in the burbs with access to the city. Plenty of things to do in the burbs.
Have you seen/looked at the 4 proposals from DC? It should be obvious to any casual observer that there is space.
- NoMa has flexibility to build a neighborhood-wide, semi-contiguous 13 million square feet of office space in its proposal (Amazon only needs 8 million)
- Navy Yard has flexibility to build a neighborhood-wide, semi-contiguous 17 million square feet of office space in its proposal (Amazon only needs 8 million)
- Reservation 13 can be built out as an 8 million square feet contiguous campus.
DC doesn't need to act like it has space for Amazon. It is a reality.
Last edited by revitalizer; 01-25-2018 at 08:04 AM..
Have you seen/looked at the 4 proposals from DC? It should be obvious to any casual observer that there is space.
- NoMa has flexibility to build a neighborhood-wide, semi-contiguous 13 million square feet of office space in its proposal (Amazon only needs 8 million)
- Navy Yard has flexibility to build a neighborhood-wide, semi-contiguous 17 million square feet of office space in its proposal (Amazon only needs 8 million)
- Reservation 13 can be built out as an 8 million square feet contiguous campus.
DC doesn't need to act like it has space for Amazon. It is a reality.
I never said it wasn't a reality, but do you realize how it impacts residences, retail, the roads, transit, etc? Amazon would bring in a ton more residences in a tiny space that DC just doesn't have compared to VA/MD. NoMa and Navy Yard are already pretty packed as-is. Not to mention, the DC height limitations that VA or MD don't have to worry about.
All I'm saying is, I'm not against it coming to DC, but if it happens, it's going to make those areas in DC even more of a mess than it already is. The fact is that VA and MD simply have much flexibility and room that DC doesn't.
Last edited by sonnymarkjiz; 01-25-2018 at 09:04 AM..
I never said it wasn't a reality, but do you realize how it impacts residences, retail, the roads, transit, etc? Amazon would bring in a ton more residences in a tiny space that DC just doesn't have compared to VA/MD. NoMa and Navy Yard are already pretty packed as-is. Not to mention, the DC height limitations that VA or MD don't have to worry about.
All I'm saying is, I'm not against it coming to DC, but if it happens, it's going to make those areas in DC even more of a mess than it already is. The fact is that VA and MD simply have much flexibility and room that DC doesn't.
Let's look at it a different way. The amount of office space that is being built in the Navy Yard and NoMa areas is going to top out well above what the space requirements are for an Amazon HQ. This was happening regardless. Space is not an issue in DC for a traditionally urban HQ of that magnitude. I guess if you're looking at it from how a suburban office campus or quasi-urban campus is built, then space would be an issue. That is not how the one in DC would be built. It would mirror Seattle's Amazon HQ, which has 8 million square feet spread out over 30 buildings.
Also, the amount of residential space being built in just those two areas is going to top out well into the many tens of thousands of units range. That was happening anyway as well. Those areas are being built out to be the densest areas in DC for residential units in a small geographic area + also equaling the amount of office space in the K Street/Farragut Square corridor on top of that.
It is happening regardless of Amazon or not. Why not secure the marquee office tenant now? That magnitude of space was going to built anyway.
And, DC does have the ability to bring in a ton more residences in a tiny space. It is why DC IS one of the densest cities in the US already and will be even more so in the future.
For a giant company like Amazon, it isn't, though.
Yes...it is. We're talking about a tech giant like Amazon where the corporate culture is more urban-focused. There's no way they'd want to be that far out.
Are you saying that the only reason they want access to an airport is for their employees personal trips?
People in Loudoun do follow the Redskins / Wizards / Capitals / Nationals, and even attend games. It's a suburb after all.
Same with access to educational institutions. They're not that far away.
30 miles taking 2 hours is only during congested times, and there are still many hours of non-congested roads during each day.
Did Amazon say they wanted a place like Seattle? Seattle is Seattle. If that's what they want then build there.
I don't even really like Loudoun that much, but I can see the weakness of your argument. I wouldn't mind if it went to DC, but the site in Loudoun (almost in Fairfax Co) is a pretty good site. I can see them choosing that.
No. I'm saying that people overplay the location of the Loudoun site o Dulles Airport when not that many employees will be traveling enough to warrant locating the entire HQ 15 minutes from an airport. Other Fortune 500 companies locate in major cities 30-40 minutes away from the nearest airport.
I'm not saying people in Loudoun or even Warren County are too far to be involved in Washington DC sports. I'm only concerned about the distance. How motivated would most people be to travel 20 minutes on the metro to a game in DC as opposed to traveling 40 minutes by metro or car? Location means everything right? If I have to take a long ride on the Silver Line to do anything, that would be a drag. I used to work out in that area. Trust me, it's not very exciting for a 20-30 -something. As great as people may think Loudoun county is for the quality of life.
AMazon said they wanted a place like Seattle in terms of its urbanicity, culture (museums, arts, sports), and diversity. Loudoun county doesn't offer that at all.
We can agree to disagree that the Loudoun/Fairfax site is optimal for 20-30 somethings who want and need to socialize locally at some place other than a strip mall or a prefab mixed-use town center. That's just me. I've worked in those desolate office parks in the far suburbs in my 20s and 30s and hated it. I envied my colleagues who had jobs in downtown DC in the mix of everything and everyone. YOur social life dies out in the ex-urbs as a young individual. Leave it to the soccer moms and middle-age golfers.
Let's look at it a different way. The amount of office space that is being built in the Navy Yard and NoMa areas is going to top out well above what the space requirements are for an Amazon HQ. This was happening regardless. Space is not an issue in DC for a traditionally urban HQ of that magnitude. I guess if you're looking at it from how a suburban office campus or quasi-urban campus is built, then space would be an issue. That is not how the one in DC would be built. It would mirror Seattle's Amazon HQ, which has 8 million square feet spread out over 30 buildings.
Also, the amount of residential space being built in just those two areas is going to top out well into the many tens of thousands of units range. That was happening anyway as well. Those areas are being built out to be the densest areas in DC for residential units in a small geographic area + also equaling the amount of office space in the K Street/Farragut Square corridor on top of that.
It is happening regardless of Amazon or not. Why not secure the marquee office tenant now? That magnitude of space was going to built anyway.
And, DC does have the ability to bring in a ton more residences in a tiny space. It is why DC IS one of the densest cities in the US already and will be even more so in the future.
And the beautiful part is, they don't all have to live in DC proper. Being in DC, MD and VA can benefit as well. Every employee doesn't have to be clustered within a square mile of the campus. Some people may like other parts of the DC area depending on their age and background.
Personally, I think the Anacostia River corridor is perfect. It shifts some of the traffic flow from east-west to west-east.
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but do you realize how it impacts residences, retail, the roads, transit, etc? Amazon would bring in a ton more residences in a tiny space that DC just doesn't have compared to VA/MD. NoMa and Navy Yard are already pretty packed as-is. Not to mention, the DC height limitations that VA or MD don't have to worry about.
