Seriously is THIS the way it is here? (Washington: cheap apartments, crimes)

[jm67]

Actually, for the average citizen (ie. not involved in DCRA and Family Services), city services have improved greatly and now rival those found in any area. The DMV is surprisingly efficient (yes you have to wait ~30 minutes for an appointment, about the same as what I used to wait in my small town in upstate New York). I can call DPW for a special trash pickup and they usually come. Most renewals, licenses, etc can be procured over the web (which is not true in most cities, even now).

Streamlining DCRA for small businesses would seem to be the logical next step in improving the quality of life in neighborhoods. I've heard horror stories regarding the permitting process, and graft is not unheard of.

But I think DC gets unfairly slagged with the mantra that "all city services are poor". Now the schools are a different matter, of course.

[vanyali]

Yeah, I would think schools were a biggie. Or at least the city could do something to encourage more private schools to open up, or to expand. Relax regulations? Give them tax breaks? Just stop hassling them however the city might be currently hassling them?

[Moth]

DC Public Schools, which I went through 1-12, are bad because a large amount of the students do not care and do not apply themselves. Schools are a function of the communities they serve. End of story.

Yes, the typical bureacratic horror stories are ever-present and always will be. But Abe Lincoln learned in a one room schoolhouse using a burnt stick to write. My high school certainly had more resources than that. And it had a fair amount of kids who still could barely read. If I learned to read, but they did not and we attended the same school system, well, is it the school system's fault? I think not.

Sorry, but I finished DC Public and could boast of around 10 brawls and about 3 weeks of carrying a big-ass blade for protection. I have little patience for the same tired excuses of why the system does not function. Were it composed of students who cared with their families getting involved, it would not be an issue.

[vanyali]

That may be the case, but it is also the case that there are people in DC, and people who would like to live in DC, who are willing to buy the services they need privately (schools), but who can't, because there's not enough supply.

So if DC could lure them into the public school system, then there would be the sort of parents and kids in the system that you're talking about, or if the supply of private school slots expanded, then that many more people would be able to move into the city and start paying city taxes.

As it is, people on the forum have told me that even the Catholic schools have so many applicants that they limit enrollment to parishioners. If you can't even fall back on the Catholic schools, what can you do but move out?

[Moth]

Originally Posted by vanyali

That may be the case, but it is also the case that there are people in DC, and people who would like to live in DC, who are willing to buy the services they need privately (schools), but who can't, because there's not enough supply.

So if DC could lure them into the public school system, then there would be the sort of parents and kids in the system that you're talking about, or if the supply of private school slots expanded, then that many more people would be able to move into the city and start paying city taxes.

As it is, people on the forum have told me that even the Catholic schools have so many applicants that they limit enrollment to parishioners. If you can't even fall back on the Catholic schools, what can you do but move out?

Yea whatever.

The point was why the DC schools, and similiar school systems, are bad. Having been one of the few who did not flee in terror, I feel justified in giving a different answer than the traditional one and one that just happens to be true. I was there. Only when we get over this inane notion that the schools are bad due to money (rather than culture) will we begin to address the problem.

And I did move out. Mrs Moth and I just had our first and there is no way in hell we are going to send Moth Jr to where we went to school, which now has a lovely metal detector at the door. We fled to a burb that has a fantastic school cluster.

[DC's Finest]

Let me chime in! DC spends more per pupil than any jurisdiction in the country, including Fairfax and Loudoun Counties. Where the disconnect lies is the way the money has been allocated to top management, consultants and so called specialist, instead of paying the teachers, upgrading facilities, buying new books, and implementing new programs. Past administrations (Williams included) have turned a blind eye to the problems of the school. Plus layers of ineffective management and fraud (stealing federally funded food subsidies) has been very abundant. Fenty and Rhee are on the right track. It will definitely take some years to get out of the mess the school system is in.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by DC's Finest

Let me chime in! DC spends more per pupil than any jurisdiction in the country, including Fairfax and Loudoun Counties. Where the disconnect lies is the way the money has been allocated to top management, consultants and so called specialist, instead of paying the teachers, upgrading facilities, buying new books, and implementing new programs. Past administrations (Williams included) have turned a blind eye to the problems of the school. Plus layers of ineffective management and fraud (stealing federally funded food subsidies) has been very abundant. Fenty and Rhee are on the right track. It will definitely take some years to get out of the mess the school system is in.

All quite true. But if a huge chunk of the students disdain education, then what difference will it make? You can take someone and put him in the most modern-equiped school in the universe with the best teachers. But if he does not want to learn then he is not going to learn.

[juniperbleu]

Originally Posted by Moth

DC Public Schools, which I went through 1-12, are bad because a large amount of the students do not care and do not apply themselves. Schools are a function of the communities they serve. End of story.

Were it composed of students who cared with their families getting involved, it would not be an issue.

You have a point. There's the same problem in Philadelphia's public schools (where my mother, aunt, and more than several friends all teach). Yes, there are additional problems, but it's definitely true that the prevailing attitude is "don't care and don't want to" from the students and "it's your problem, not mine" from the parents. Those students who did well often had parents who were at least minimally involved in their children's lives.

[vanyali]

I didn't say that DC needed to spend more money on education. My point was that if DC could manage, somehow, to improve the schools, then more & different people would move into the city and DC would collect more taxes.

So actually, I guess I was saying that improving the schools (including through doing something to increase private school slots --- notice, that would be an improvement that didn't rely on changing anything about the attitudes of current DC public school kids & parents & probably wouldn't cost the city a dime) would be a money-making opportunity for the DC government.

[EasternMkt]

DCPS' entrenched bureaucracy (which dates from pre-home rule days and is perhaps the worst of the city departments'), a revolving door of leadership, and lack of a long-range vision, have heavily contributed to its current status but as Moth points out, there’s more than a broken education system at work. But what is being done to encourage more parents to engage in their child's education? In certain formerly low-performing public schools in other cities (as well as some local charter schools), parents sign an agreement dedicating a small number of hours regularly volunteering and receive training on how to be more involved in their child’s education. While it may not be government’s responsibility to remedy the fact that some parents don’t emphasize education, it is certainly in its best long-term interest to do so. We need to create a basic culture shift if we want to improve DC education, and for that, we need to target more adults. (BTW, I volunteer tutor for low income students, and I can promise you that the parents of these kids care VERY DEEPLY about their children’s futures, but even they sometimes say that they are in the minority.)

Many of the local Catholic schools are converting to charter schools as enrollment is down and creating a charter these days isn’t difficult and there’s little quality control in the process. And both NJ and NY spend more per pupil than DC (albeit w/ considerably better results). Specialists aside, DC spends a disproportionate amount on the upkeep of aging and underutilized infrastructure and to outsourcing its special education programs (under the current chancellor, an in-house system is being developed which should bring costs more in line w/ other jurisdictions.)