Cultur shock in the South. (fit in, luxury, college)

[hj2500]

According to this site, 2/3rds of people in the Virginia suburbs are from Southern states, even higher in Montgomery County in the Maryland suburbs - only a tenth of people in the D.C. area live inside Washington. Outside of the areas around the Metro stops, the D.C. area is rather sparse compared to major Northeastern cities. From satellite it looks like Atlanta more than Philadelphia, which is to say you can see lots of trees and some urban cores rather than a large, urban blob area. D.C. itself has mostly black and white people like other Southern cities. Considering this, I think it is understandable how people could think of it as more comparable to Southern metro areas.

The area is not considered Southern culturally anymore, but it was decided that the capital would be located in what was then firmly in the South to appease the Southern power class who were already interested in leaving the U.S. at the time.

It seems Northerners and Southerners don't like it when people call Washington 'Southern', very childish in my opinion since it is neither.

[back2dc]

Do you have pics of these satellite images? Are they recent or from the 90s, b/c the growth rate in the urban core of DC as well as the immediate suburbs has been extensive in the past 10 years.

Also, what were the exact stats of that study about Virginia residents? Didn't that take into consideration that Virginia was included in that amount? In that case is Virginia a southern state anymore? Is Maryland? Also those figures included native-born Americans. What about the LEGAL immigrant population that wasn't included in this study? There are hundreds of thousands of LEGAL immigrants who live in Northern Virginia.

Originally Posted by hj2500

According to this site, 2/3rds of people in the Virginia suburbs are from Southern states, even higher in Montgomery County in the Maryland suburbs - only a tenth of people in the D.C. area live inside Washington. Outside of the areas around the Metro stops, the D.C. area is rather sparse compared to major Northeastern cities. From satellite it looks like Atlanta more than Philadelphia, which is to say you can see lots of trees and some urban cores rather than a large, urban blob area. D.C. itself has mostly black and white people like other Southern cities. Considering this, I think it is understandable how people could think of it as more comparable to Southern metro areas.

The area is not considered Southern culturally anymore, but it was decided that the capital would be located in what was then firmly in the South to appease the Southern power class who were already interested in leaving the U.S. at the time.

It seems Northerners and Southerners don't like it when people call Washington 'Southern', very childish in my opinion since it is neither.

[Back to NE]

I'm also a New Englander. When I moved to DC in the late 80s, I remember saying: "geez, how far South am I" with regularity. But almost 20 years later, I feel it has lost most of it's Southern vibe.

One thing I used to think was Southern, I've since found was just the way DC is. I find people here are very reserved socially, especially to strangers. It used to bug me, I felt I had to soften my tone (and subject matter), for the gentile/rigid sensitibilities of DC folk. I had to walk on eggshells. I felt like a brash NYC cabbie around the mild, bookish DC folk.

Anyway, years passed and I see that all this ISN'T because it's Southern, but moreso because so many people move here for their jobs, that they let themselves get clannish. And the apparent fear of strangers? Can't really explain that, maybe just because it's so diverse, you can hear multiple languages at any time.

But you should leave Capital Hill, it definately has an older almost historic vibe, you can even find Republicans there!! egad. Move to Adams Morgan, U Street, Woodley Park, Cleveland Park, Dupont.

And remember, DC has probably THE best job market (year after year) in the country. So it is fed constantly with people from everywhere, but it also suffers from it, I feel it is the ultimate rat race. Overpriced, and not someplace I would stay if I didn't have to (because of work).

Enjoy it while you're here!

[grindin]

Having visited DC many times in my life, I say it's a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

That being said, many parts of NoVa remind me quite a bit of some of the more upscale parts of Suburban Atlanta in their "look-and-feel". However, Arlington County is waaaay more urbane. Whereas Suburban Maryland 'feels' more Northeastern to me with mild southern flavor. I really can't explain it, but I feel it when I'm up there.

Suburban DC doesn't seem to endlessly sprawl the way Metro Atlanta does. Depending on which way you go, you can be in the hinterland much faster. Well, except along I-95 heading down to Fredericksburg...I know MoCo enacted a lot of anti-sprawl policies back in the day though...

[TomDot]

[quote=DC's Finest;4237658]CAAD,

First, let me poke a few holes in your analogy of why DC is a southern city comparable to Atlanta.

Walkability - DC is on par with Boston, Philly and NYC as one of the most walkable places in the US. You need a car in southern cities.

DC is not on par with Boston for walkability. In Boston, history is literally around every corner. In DC, it is block after block of antiseptic office buildings with the occassional barrier thrown in.

Pace of life - The time I spent in Boston, the DT area was very mild compared to DC. Boston's DT was also very small. DC is more of a cosmopolitan city than Boston. Boston has a small town feel to it and I thought it was ok. With the museums, protest, rallys, shows, outdoor activities, there are definitely more things to do in DC than Boston.

Protest rallys are on your list of fun things to do?!
As for the comments on downtowns go: How can you compare the downtowns when DC doesn't have one?

Transportation - DC has the second largest subway ridership behind NYC. 800,000 riders a day kills anything that the T in Boston does or Philly for that matter. Transit is big in the Northeast. Not in the south! DC's redline has more riders than the entire Marta system. Plus somebody better tell Amtrak that trains running on their Northeast corridor line are stopping in DC? Go figure!

Subway ridership has never been a measuring stick for me when I compare cities.

Central Business District/Downtown Core - DC's downtown is the third largest in the nation behind NYC & Chicago. Much bigger than Boston!
Once again large central business districts are representative of northern cities. Have you ever been to Atlanta or Houston or Phoenix. There DT's are basically office parks that are connected.

Again, what DC downtown? I lived in Falls Church and there was one thing that I would tell people from NE about DC was that it was a pretty cool place but there was no urban feel or core to it and certainly no downtown!
And where are you getting your stats from? What agency or who is measuring the downtowns of cities and rating them?

City feel - Southern cities are very suburban in nature. DC is a rowhome city, just like Baltimore, Philly, Boston, parts of NYC. Do you see this type of architecture in GA or Texas? And if you can't find people or nightlife in DC, you need to get out more. Boston does have a lot of quirky bars but DC kills Boston in the nightlife category.

DC does not kill Boston in nightlife. NYC does, but DC does not.

Go to U street, Adams Morgan, Dupont Circle, 14th Street, Chinatown, Gtown at 2am.

And watch all the completely inebriated a-holes get into fights.
And 2 AM closing times are pretty common in most american cities that I have been to

Weather - The differences in weather between DC, Philly, NYC, is 4 degrees on any given day. Boston is a lot colder.

DC is lot hotter!
Boston is not a lot colder. It is right on the ocean which keeps it warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer

[TomDot]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Get out and explore the city. In almost every way imaginable (except perhaps educational opportunities), DC is more ethnic, cosmopolitan, diverse, and vibrant than Boston. I was shocked, because I'd always thought they might have more in common than that.

According to the US Census Bureau:
As a percentage of total population, the District of Columbia has a foreign born population of = 12.7%

As a percentage of total population, the City of Boston has a foreign born population of = 27.2%

Wow! thats more than twice the ethnic diversity. And since cosmopolitanism is a measurement of how people of other nations view the livability of a city, Boston has more than twice the cosmopolitan level.

[Moth]

Again, what DC downtown? I lived in Falls Church and there was one thing that I would tell people from NE about DC was that it was a pretty cool place but there was no urban feel or core to it and certainly no downtown!
And where are you getting your stats from? What agency or who is measuring the downtowns of cities and rating them?

I hate to burst your bubble, but at this very moment, I am sitting at my desk in Downtown Washington, DC.

Downtown runs roughly from Union Station/Capitol Hill to Washington Circle which is around 22nd street if you go East to West. That is a pretty good size downtown area by any standard.

DC is not on par with Boston for walkability. In Boston, history is literally around every corner. In DC, it is block after block of antiseptic office buildings with the occassional barrier thrown in.

Have you actually been here? DC boasts a colonial era neighborhood (Georgetown), buildings by Rudolf Neutra, Meis van der Roh, IM Pei, Edward Durrel Stone and others, Art Deco theaters, historical buildings (Ford's Theater, the White House, etc), grand areas for embassies (Mass Ave/Embassy Row), historical districts (Cleveland Park), and lovely neigborhoods with a vast array of architecture.

All in all, not bad for an artificially-created city.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by TomDot

According to the US Census Bureau:
As a percentage of total population, the District of Columbia has a foreign born population of = 12.7%

As a percentage of total population, the City of Boston has a foreign born population of = 27.2%

Wow! thats more than twice the ethnic diversity. And since cosmopolitanism is a measurement of how people of other nations view the livability of a city, Boston has more than twice the cosmopolitan level.

Depends on how you skew the stats. Are we talking about just the cities of Boston and DC or the metro areas? Are you including students? Can you include diplomats and World Bank personel?

Neither has the array of immigrant communities found in NY or LA in their urban cores. But both have immigrant dominated suburbs and both have a lot of people from abroad passing through whether its colleges (Boston) or Diplomats (DC).

I suspect they are largely equal in the aggregate.

[DC's Finest]

WOW! DC does not have a downtown? I feel like my IQ will drop 10 points for responding to this. Let's see. I'm standing on the corner of 14th and K Streets NW. In all four directions, I see a canyon of office buidlings stretching farther than the eye can see. Where am I?

Tom, DC has more downtown commercial office space (more than 100 million square feet) than every city in America except Chicago and NYC. In fact, if you included the Federal Office buildings, DC would surpass Chicago. Manhattan and DC both boast the most expensive office space as well as the lowest vacancy rates in the country. Thats a good measure. Moth is also correct that DC DT stretches from Union Station on the east, the National Mall on the south, Parts of Mass Avenue & M Street to the North and 22nd Street to the West. Boston's "wittle" DT doesn't not compare in size or scope.

In 2007, the DC area was just named the most walkable place in the U.S. You can walk anywhere in DC. The city is not cut off and bisected by highways.

DC is second behind NYC 58% for mass transit usage with 37% of the population participating. Yes, subway ridership is not a measuring stick to compare cities, however it can be used to show a city's characteristic. My point being, Northeast cities have great mass transit and ridership. Southern cities don't. You still with me?

DC has no urban feel? - Kalorama, Georgetown, Adams Morgan, U Street, Chinatown, Columbia Heights, Petworth, and Shaw are not urban. What about downtown DC. Its very urban! As for nightlife, Boston has a lot of watering holes and bars. It doesn't even come close to the upscale clubs in DC that don't close at 2am. Step out of 1985!

Cosmopolitan. Hmmmm! The Capital of the Free World vs. The Capital of New England. You do the math on that one!

[EasternMkt]

Originally Posted by TomDot

According to the US Census Bureau:
As a percentage of total population, the District of Columbia has a foreign born population of = 12.7%

As a percentage of total population, the City of Boston has a foreign born population of = 27.2%

...Boston has more than twice the cosmopolitan level.

It's hard to say which is more diverse on the basis of such broad statistics. If the majority of Boston's foreign born population comes from just one or two countries but DC's is evenly divided among 50+, which would be more diverse? I suspect that the answer might depend on who one was speaking w/. Also, I don't believe that these stats include foreign nationals living here for government related reasons (such as embassy positions).

Originally Posted by TomDot

DC is not on par with Boston for walkability. In Boston, history is literally around every corner. In DC, it is block after block of antiseptic office buildings with the occassional barrier thrown in.

Walkability and history are two different things. I happen to like Boston's particular flavor of history, but that has little to do w/ the walkability of the city. Walkability is a measure of how easy it is to conduct one's day to day life w/o car dependency. While it primarily looks at the ability to access places by (you guessed it!) walking, it can also take into account accessibility by bike and public transportation. How easy is it to get to work? To the local restaurant or pub w/ friends? To go to the movies? To go to the grocery store? There are definitely some walkable neighborhoods in Boston and some less so in DC, but DC is problably more accessible considering the comparable population densities of both cities.

DC does have a somewhat dry CBD but it sounds like you never ventured far out of, say, the Golden Triangle. Have you actually been to the city neighborhoods? Or did you just metro in to Farragut Square from Falls Church? DC has a more European feel to it due to the relatively low height of its buildings, making it distinct from Boston or NYC. It took me a while to adjust. That said, DC proper has more square feet of office space than other U.S. city but NY.

Originally Posted by TomDot

Subway ridership has never been a measuring stick for me when I compare cities.

Perhaps not for you, however, transit ridership is an defining statistic of urban areas since one of the primary benefits of living in a city is easy access to everything a city has to offer. It would be pretty useless if a city has hundreds of fabulous restaurants, theaters, and events but they were inaccessible, or only accessible by car (which would add significantly to local pollution and congestion).