Positives/Negatives Thread (Washington: middle-class, best neighborhoods, real estate)

[coldbliss]

We really should have a thread for people sharing the good and bad thoughts about DC. I always see either one-sided positive or negative threads. I have always had mixed opinions about DC. If more posters expressed positive and negative aspects of living and working in DC, I think potential newcomers would have a better understanding of our region.

Positives:

• Job Opportunities. The Washington, DC region hasn’t really suffered a recession since 1990-91. We dodged the huge Dot.com/Telecom meltdown of 2001. Thanks to Osama bin Laden and the 19 hijackers on September 11, the local economy received billions of federal government $$$$ for homeland security and defense. Even the Big Housing Crash will have limited effect in DC because of the strong job growth and income levels. Whether you want a career with the federal government, a non-profit association, corporate law & lobbying, or in the private sector technical fields; you have choices and a good shot of finding a well-paying, satisfying job. How many other metropolitan regions in the United States offer such lucrative jobs in government, non-profits, and private business? How about ZERO. This explains why DC has a huge influx of new residents each year.

• Diversity. Yeah, you got New York City—the United Nations of global diversity. But Washington, DC is pretty damn close when it comes to cosmopolitan situations. I marvel at the different races and ethnic groups of people walking down one block in downtown DC, Arlington, Silver Spring, Rockville, or Alexandria. In fact, I think Caucasians will become a minority in the DC region in the near future. And no, it’s not all illegal immigrants coming from Central America that is adding to diversity. DC attracts a huge number of foreign professionals who work at embassies and the World Bank/IMF. I think it is pretty cool to hear different foreign languages in restaurants and on the street.

• Lots of Smart People. I think DC has the highest number of people with college degrees in the United States. Cities like Boston, San Francisco and New York come close. We have an abundance of people with JDs, PhDs, MBAs, MDs and more. Smart people always have interesting things to say about the world. Smart people work hard and like to be challenged mentally. This is why people in DC LIVE to WORK! Your profession is your life. Your academic success is a big deal in your life. Nothing kick starts a conversation at a DC soiree than this question, “So what do you for a living?”

• Cultural Activities. Again, we are not in the same league as New York. But we have plenty of diversions in the DC region. You have tons of art galleries and museums to visit on weekends. We have many different live theater venues. If you want outdoor concert entertainment, there is Wolf Trap in Virginia and the Strathmore Hall and Merriweather Post Pavilion in Maryland. The Kennedy Center is a great place for viewing the best symphony or ballet performances.

I prefer to visit smaller music venues such as 9:30 club or Black Cat in DC. You can’t go wrong in DC if appreciate the visual arts or music.



Negatives:

• The Cost of Living. Jesus...DC is getting really expensive. The two main reasons for the big COL increase: 2001-2006 housing bubble and generous federal government spending, which leads to new jobs and fat salaries for the contractors and lobbyists. Back in 1980s and 1990s, Washington, DC was pricey for housing. But back then, a middle-income family making $125,000 can afford a decent place in Arlington or upper northwest DC. Not anymore. The housing bubble has boosted prices beyond the reach of many middle-class people. You better pony up at least $400,000 for an average three-bedroom house with a small yard. We are talking at least $275,000 for a one-bedroom condo unit. If you are a 20-something worker bee making a meager salary, you better have roommates (I stressed the plural part). If you want your own one-bedroom for under $1,800 a month, good luck finding a place. The gentrification wave has engulfed many neighborhoods in the District and inner suburb cities like Arlington, VA and Silver Spring, MD. This is why you have more people moving out to the far suburbs in Northern Virginia and Maryland. Which leads to my next negative:

• Traffic. It sucks here. You have back-ups on I-66 and I-270 that begin at least 20-25 miles outside of the Beltway each morning. On some days, I-95 is parking lot from Woodbridge to the Mixing Bowl. Due to the high cost of real estate in the District and inner suburbs, more families are making the decision to live out in the boondocks. You hear the end result during the rush-hour traffic reports on the radio.

Because of high gas prices, more people are using Metro trains. I hate getting on the Metro train during rush hour because you can’t move or breath because of the crowded conditions. Red Line. Orange Line. Blue Line. It doesn’t matter. If a train breaks down, the entire system gets backed-up; leading to more over-crowded station platforms and train cars. The Metro buses are not a reliable alternative either. The buses are always behind schedule or they don’t appear at all.

• The weather. April and May in Washington, DC is heaven on Earth. Seriously, there is no place on this planet where the climate is perfect during those two months of the year. Flowers are blooming and the tree leaves are sprouting. Late September to early November is also really beautiful in this area. The really cool, crisp autumn air comes later in the year than most places. We can enjoy high 60 degree temperatures well into November in this region.

However, from Memorial Day through Labor Day, Washington, DC is hell. We are talking Dante’s Inferno hell. The high humidity makes you sweat enough that your clothes stick to your skin. I could produce enough sweat to fill a swimming pool. The burning hot sun fries you like an egg on a skillet. You see more people in DC with umbrellas on a sunny August day than during rain storms. I don’t know how people lived in this region before the invention of air conditioning.

The winters are BLECH here. If you love real winter weather with lots of snow, you won’t find it here. Our winters are comparable to the Pacific Northwest: lots of cloudy days with cold, cold rain. Every five years, we might get a massive two-foot snow storm. Sure, we get a week’s worth of artic temperatures in January. Overall though, the winters are fairly mild temperature wise. I think the weather is pretty depressing from December to late March here.

[JimGriffith]

Ok I'll play.

Positives:

Variety of wonderful restaurants, from the most luxurious high end restaurant in the nation (Inn at Little Washington) to seafood, Ethiopian, and cheap Vietnamese and Guatamalan joints in Falls Church and Wheaton.

Beach two hours east, mountains two hours west . . . they aren't the greatest beaches or the most awe-inspiring peaks, but it's nice to have these options available.

Economy and cultural opportunities, pretty well summed up by the original poster.

Negatives:

Local government, this applies mostly to DC proper. The school system is a joke. The public higher-ed is a joke (although the NOVA community colleges are excellent, but that doesn't help DC residents). The juvenile justice system is a joke. The "war on rats" has been lost. The sad thing is this is probably the best DC has had things in the last 40 years.

Social pathologies, again this mostly relates to DC proper. For all the noted diversity, DC comes across as VERY segregated, at least in comparison to the other big cities in which I've resided (NYC, Philly, Boston). There are extreme elements of distrust between black, white, and hispanic....native vs. transient....upper NW vs. every other neighborhood, ironic hipster vs. former UVA fratboy, etc.

Attitudes -- Mostly just anecdotal evidence, but I find that this area is filled with very aggressive, pushy folks -- even worse attitude wise than NY or Philly.

Cost of living and traffic are at once deflating and maddening, and have been summed up plenty on this board. I'd say the weather too, but quite honestly we've had a glorious Spring and Summer.

[LIS123]

I agree with the first post with regards to positives. Personally, not having a car has been my favorite part about living here. I hate having to drive anywhere and loving driving nowhere! Diversity is nice to have, but it doesn't really impact my life much.

The negatives mentioned in the first post are correct. The COL here is extremely high and it's hard to justify. Some places have reasonable rent and high purchase prices. This area is high for both, plus other items (food, personal care, etc.) The weather hasn't been too bad the last few weeks, though today is starting off bad (very humid). My first few weeks here (starting mid July) were horrible.

My experience with low-to-moderate restaurants has not been good. The lower end restaurants I've been to have left me unsatisfied. I've heard the mom/pop dining scene isn't that great, at least in the district proper. There seem to be a lot of great high end places, but they're too expensive for me

A lot of people come across as self-absorbed. Many of those who come across this way probably are, though a good number aren't. If you put in the effort, you'll meet people.

[enlightened]

just curious..when did the definition of middle-income become the equivalent of making 125K a year? Has it been this way for a while?

I only ask because the last time I checked, the median household income was somewhere around 40K.

Were you referring to the middle income bracket for DC residents? I wouldn't be surprised if thats much higher.

Just didn't know the average family was making that much.

[LIS123]

I don't know the exact definition of middle-income, but it typically does not include families making $125K/year. I think the point was that, in the not-so-distant past, a family did not need to earn that much money to own a nice home in a nice neighborhood or suburb of DC. These days, housing (and many other items) are very expensive here (even with the downturn in housing) to the point that a family (of, let's say, four) with an annual income of $125K can still be priced out of many locations.

[jm67]

I think the cost of living argument is overstated. It's a major world city and few people can afford a large 4-bedroom suburban-style home in the best neighborhoods, close to the metro, and close to their jobs. Like nearly all European cities, most people will be living in apartments and condos rather than in big houses. It's a tradeoff but one which many are willing to make. The point is, if one is willing to make a tradeoff (ie. smaller house, longer commute, gentrifying neighborhood) one can always find housing within a normal, middle-class budget.

[JimGriffith]

Originally Posted by jm67

I think the cost of living argument is overstated. It's a major world city and few people can afford a large 4-bedroom suburban-style home in the best neighborhoods, close to the metro, and close to their jobs. Like nearly all European cities, most people will be living in apartments and condos rather than in big houses. It's a tradeoff but one which many are willing to make. The point is, if one is willing to make a tradeoff (ie. smaller house, longer commute, gentrifying neighborhood) one can always find housing within a normal, middle-class budget.

I don't think that's quite right. I've lived here off and on for my whole life, and it has not always been this way...there have been some huge, rapid changes over the past ten years.

The DC I used to know was never considered a "major world city." The seat of our federal government, yes, but never a major American world city the way people consider New York or San Francisco. DC was the sleepy small quasi-southern town. Only recently have people starting paying close to New York or San Francisco prices.

The tradeoffs you mention are getting worse. The longer commutes are stretching to the West Virginia panhandle, fredericksburg and beyond. The gentrifying neighborhoods have decrepit schools and semi-literate teachers.

There's just no comparison between the situation here and what a middle class family of four could purchase in Philly, Baltimore, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, even Boston.

Our resilient economy and other attractions will always keep people here, and growing, but DC is at risk of becoming sort of a Potemkin village. Too many families have too many good reasons to flee the city for the suburbs, as they've been doing for 30+ year. You can't have a world-class city populated by young apartment-dwelling singles, wealthy people, and poor people who are really struggling and living in neighborhoods that aren't making any progress.

DC used to have roughly a million residents. The outflow has stopped, but to attract that vibrant, stable middle class, you need better schools, better law enforcement, and a more friendly small business climate.

Just my 2 cents.

[LIS123]

I agree with the previous post. The high COL is a major factor. The COL is real and affects day-to-day life. The fact that the city has nice cultural events and is a 'major world city' may not come into play in one's life on a regular basis. Plus, when paying out the nose for stuff, those perks tend to become less prevalent.

It's not just rent and purchased housing that's high here. I've noticed increased in my health insurance premium, certain utilities, food, personal care items and many other things. It adds up significantly.

I don't know what the definition of a 'normal middle class budget' is, but it can be hard to find reasonably priced housing without sacrificing too much. If you're stretching yourself too thin, this area is not a great place to be. You won't have the disposable income to enjoy dining, cultural events (that charge) and other nice things that cost money. You'll just walk by them daily.

[chiefdc]

I think the attitudes thing is way off... DC people are friendly and nice. Not Midwestern by any means, but if you strike up a conversation, people are really nice and helpful. I think certain generalizations are made just by what you THINK it should be, rather than what it is. Having lived in Atlanta and DC, I don't think there's much if any attitude difference between the two cities. In fact, I think people I've met in DC are more willing to become your "friend" rather than simply make small talk with you.

Also, DC proper is and has been improving rapidly for the past 15 years. Probably more rapidly than any other city in the country. I don't see this changing anytime soon. The list of negatives would have been far, far greater 10 years ago when the restaurant scene was mediocre, crime was much worse, nightlife was just ok, the arts scene was small, etc. We're not NYC or San Fran, but we're catching up in many regards. We've also "graduated" from being a cheap(er), moderately sized city to a major metropolitan area (ie when I was growing up here). There are definite tradeoffs that come along with that. I for one am willing to pay a premium for stimulation and urban living, whereas someone with four kids would prefer to live in a big house in the burbs with good school systems (you can get that here, too). Different strokes for different folks. You just have to find what works for you.

[LIS123]

I'm starting to agree with the previous post w/ regards to the attitudes of people. At first, many (perhaps most) people come across as unfriendly and self-absorbed. But, if you're friendly and make the first move, many of them warm up (some fairly quickly). There are still those that give off the 'don't talk to me' vibe, but a lot of others are friendlier than they may appear on the surface.

This is a place where you never know who the person standing next you (in the elevator, etc.) is, so it's often worth a shot to introduce yourself. You may find someone who will be your friend, bf/gf, networking contact, etc. You can say this about other places, but it maybe especially true here. That said, virtually no one is going to make the first move. You'll have to initiate. If you do, there's a good chance you'll be pleasantly surprised!