DC Public Schools Reform and Michelle Rhee (neighborhoods, middle school)

[Moth]

Originally Posted by saganista

Even she knows that it's controversial, and studies of the few places that have tried it have been pretty inconclusive, but name the workplace that doesn't have some sort of bonus, award, and incentive programs in place. Is this really anything different from that? Shouldn't have to bribe workers to work or students to study, but if it works, and it turns out to be a low cost way to boost productivity, who would complain?

Give me a break already.

I (and I assume you as well) did not need the government to bribe me in order to attend and behave well at school. First of all, it was the law, at least until I was 16. Secondly, I attended school to obtain an education. Thirdly, if I misbehaved, and I did once or twice, their was a certainty of retribution from both the school and my parents. Finally, the schools already suffer a dearth of resources and I think money is better spent on books and tutors than bribing a kid to do what he or she is already supposed to be doing.

And comparing a public school to a private business is inane at best.

[JimGriffith]

Originally Posted by saganista

Is this really anything different from that?

In my opinion, it's a lot different from that, because students here are not "workers." They are the consumers.

DC taxpayers in general, and parents and students are the consumers in this situation, consuming the DC government's offer of a free education for 13 years.

This is nothing more than a silly short-term gimmick to boost test scores so DCPS doesn't have to feel so ashamed of its academic ratings.

[Moth]

Can I file a claim retroactively? I was never suspended. Would I be paid in 70s/80s dollars or today's dollars?

[saganista]

I don't know. I can remember teacher's passing out gold stars for the best pieces of work, or even for perfect attendance. Seemed like every teacher had a little stash of those things in his or her desk. Maybe gold stars just don't go as far as they used to. Maybe cash does. Like I said, nobody's married to any of this stuff. Try it and see what happens. If it seems to get results, great. If it doesn't, move on and try something else.

In economic terms, you can look at students (or their parents) as consumers, or you can look at them as intermediate product, being shaped and formed for further refining and finishing elsewhere. We know which approach NCLB takes. But either way, the bottom line is the same, and that's what the system seems to be trying to focus on. How do we get better outcomes? Myself, I wouldn't really tie their hands too much on this one for a while...it's not like we have such a whole lot to lose out there...

[HomerBrink]

On the first day DC schools opened, Monday August 25, Michelle Rhee was in Denver at the DNC blasting teachers unions and the meda. Yet, her sycophants in DC say she is all about "the kids". If she is so concerned about "the kids" why isn't she popping in and out of the schools this week checking on how things are going? Very insincere, IMO.

[jm67]

In my opinion DC really needs a way to separate the (few) high achievers from the mass of low achieving students. A stronger tracking system, with purely merit-based "honors" schools would go a long way toward providing a rigorous environment that would support the best students and attract middle- and upper-income parents back into the public school system.

[JimGriffith]

It seems to much of the focus is on improving "the system."

I say to heck with the system. It sucks. The point of spending taxpayer dollars on education is not to sustain a top-heavy network of bureaucrats and administrators.

The point of spending the money is to educate kids.

How much does the whole system spend per child...like $13,000?

Give 'em all $13,000 vouchers and let them go where they please...parochial, private, Virginia, Maryland, whatever. Eliminate 90% of the jobs at DCPS -- their only job is to certify schools that can accept vouchers for tuition. Do some random undercoverr work every once in a while to make sure no one's taking kickbacks. Turn the individual schools over to private companies, wipe your hands and go home.

I'm sure this will be attacked since I probably sound like some zealot, but whatever. How much worse can it get? Camden, NJ?

[Moth]

Originally Posted by saganista

I don't know. I can remember teacher's passing out gold stars for the best pieces of work, or even for perfect attendance. Seemed like every teacher had a little stash of those things in his or her desk. Maybe gold stars just don't go as far as they used to. Maybe cash does. Like I said, nobody's married to any of this stuff. Try it and see what happens. If it seems to get results, great. If it doesn't, move on and try something else.

In economic terms, you can look at students (or their parents) as consumers, or you can look at them as intermediate product, being shaped and formed for further refining and finishing elsewhere. We know which approach NCLB takes. But either way, the bottom line is the same, and that's what the system seems to be trying to focus on. How do we get better outcomes? Myself, I wouldn't really tie their hands too much on this one for a while...it's not like we have such a whole lot to lose out there...

Saganista, surely you can discern the difference between gold stars and cash payments?

Its attitudes like these that are destroying any notions of personal responsibility and accountability.

As for "moving on and trying something else", well, why the hell should they need to try anything? How about students being students? How about they get up, go to school, participate and then go home and study and do their homework like their supposed to do? How about their parents monitor them and make sure they do their homework. In short, how about they procure an education? That is the purpose of school the last time I looked.

[HomerBrink]

Moth - Good comment.

[mettler]

Personally, I put most of the blame on the parents. In all honesty, when I was young(er) I would not have done any homework had my parents not made me do it. Also, I have a girl friend that teaches, and she tells me she will have parent-teacher meetings and have one parent show up. I remember dreading parent-teacher nights..I remember waiting in terror for my parents to arrive back home for fear of not knowing exactly what kind of report I was going to get from my teacher.