is philly worse than dc? (Washington: credit, camp, taxes)

[14thandYou]

I had a rather negative impression of Philadelphia for many years, and then my wife and I spent a few days there last year and I left with a much more favorable impression. Like a lot of eastern seaboard cities (DC, Baltimore, Philly) it seems a lot has changed. I still prefer DC though, for the reasons I spelled out in my post above.

[smakawhat]

I have a good time in Philly, but I much prefer DC.

However, I can't get a Chickie's special here...

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

I had a rather negative impression of Philadelphia for many years, and then my wife and I spent a few days there last year and I left with a much more favorable impression. Like a lot of eastern seaboard cities (DC, Baltimore, Philly) it seems a lot has changed. I still prefer DC though, for the reasons I spelled out in my post above.

Philadelphia has sort of flip flopped in the last 50- 60 years. 50 years ago its strength was its neighborhoods and its downtown was rather bleak. They've done a great job rebuilding Center City and University City(Its indescribable what U Penn has meant to Philly) They still have to improve the Convention Center area(Market East) is still depressing to me but Center City as a whole might be the best 100,000 person neighborhood in the whole country.Its fabulous perhaps the best replica you will find of the tight knit narrow European cities.I would encourage everyone to just walk from the historic sites through the center city neighborhoods to U Penn. Its a living breathing museum of us history.

The problem is the extended neighborhoods which used to be the apple of the eye for Philadelphia especially N- W-SW Philadelphia have imploded. The middle class abandoned these neighborhoods for the suburbs starting in the 1930's and they are a complete mess today.

South Philly is still in surprisingly good shape and is a glimpse of how great of a city this must have been with a middle class.The NE and moreso the NW wings of Philadlephia are very nice communities, more suburban in nature. In fact there was a strong faction that wanted the capital of the country to be located in NW Philadlephia back in 1800.Chestnut Hill one of the best designed urban neighborhoods on the map.

In retrospect Philadlephia erred in its competitive nature by trying to keep up with NYC in the 19th early 20th century. But you cant fault them at the time who could foresee the devastation that was about to unfold in the inner cities.Unbelievable.Philadelphia had the bones to be one of the best cities in the usa,overall it just doesnt have the soul any longer.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

Better wining and dining options. DC was once maligned as a dining backwater, but no longer. In practically every neighborhood and quadrant of the city, you can find top-notch restaurants, pubs and fine dining establishments covering every cuisine imaginable. And as for wine, northern Virginia has an impressive assortment of wineries set in beautiful settings thata re turning out some really good wine. Try the Linden Reisling or the Rappahanock Vineyards Chardonnay.

Just a bit of hometown proclivity here perhaps. Dont let your biasness cloud reality. There are good things happening and great cities beside Washington DC. Eventhough many Philadlephia neighborhoods have seen better days keep in mind this was one of the countrys heavy hitters for the first 75% of its lifespan. Philaldephia was a juggernaut and the architectural, historic and cultural institutions document that. Philadelphia can stand toe to toe with Washington in regards to history,culture,galleries,retail,dining. A little bit of disrespect here, a little bit.

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

More green space/outdoor options. Forget strolling along the National Mall, how about hiking through Rock Creek Park--where you can feel like you're in the middle of the wilderness, when in fact you're in the middle of the city? Do some kayaking along the Potomac. Hike out to Great Falls, or go jogging along the C&O canal towpath or Rock Creek parkway. Bike along the Crescent Trail to Georgetown, or along the Mt. Vernon Trail to Alexandria. Stroll through acres of beautiful foliage at the National Arboretum and Kenilworth Aquatic Gardens. Want to get out of the city? Shenandoah National Park is only 1 1/2 hours away and offers superb hiking and camping possibilities, and the eastern shore is barely 3 hours away.

I'm going to have to spank you on this issue as well. Rock Creek Park is 1700 acres. Philadlephias Fairmount Park is 9300 acres, the largest urban park in the usa. If somebody blind folded you and dropped you off in the Wissahickon Gorge you would think you were in Vermont not in the center of the 5th largest city in the usa. If you are going Shenandoah I'll counteract with the Poconos and I dont think Washington has any answer for Valley Forge or Brandwine Valley which are both in the middle of the core metro.

I have family in the Dc area and respect it very much but there are probably easier targets to take a swing at 14th You.

Valley Forge- 20 minutes west of Center City Philly



Center City Philadlephia

[Bluefly]

Just a bit of hometown proclivity here perhaps. Dont let your biasness cloud reality. There are good things happening and great cities beside Washington DC. Eventhough many Philadlephia neighborhoods have seen better days keep in mind this was one of the countrys heavy hitters for the first 75% of its lifespan. Philaldephia was a juggernaut and the architectural, historic and cultural institutions document that. Philadelphia can stand toe to toe with Washington in regards to history,culture,galleries,retail,dining. A little bit of disrespect here, a little bit.

You could insert "Detroit" in the above paragraph and make the exact same point. While Detroit is a truly fascinating city, it doesn't mean it can hold a candle to DC today.

I'm not trying to knock Philly, but I think you're accurate in your assessment of "hometown proclivity".

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

You could insert "Detroit" in the above paragraph and make the exact same point. While Detroit is a truly fascinating city, it doesn't mean it can hold a candle to DC today.

I'm not trying to knock Philly, but I think you're accurate in your assessment of "hometown proclivity".

Mr/Mrs Bluefly I'm afraid I am going to have to take you to task on this issue . In all due respect to Detroit it may as well be in a different solar system as there is absolutely no comparison to Philadelphia. You are extremely misguided regarding this matter.

By the way Washington is closer to Detroit than Philadlephi is to Washington in murder rate year ending 2008.

Detroit- 37.6
Washington-32.1
Philadelphia- 22.9

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Just a bit of hometown proclivity here perhaps. Dont let your biasness cloud reality.

...

Philadelphia can stand toe to toe with Washington in regards to history,culture,galleries,retail,dining. A little bit of disrespect here, a little bit.

I have no idea how you gathered any disrespect in my post, but we do disagree here. And it's interesting that you complain of bias and "hometown proclivity" in my post when you write:

I'm going to have to spank you on this issue as well. Rock Creek Park is 1700 acres. Philadlephias Fairmount Park is 9300 acres, the largest urban park in the usa. If somebody blind folded you and dropped you off in the Wissahickon Gorge you would think you were in Vermont not in the center of the 5th largest city in the usa. If you are going Shenandoah I'll counteract with the Poconos and I dont think Washington has any answer for Valley Forge or Brandwine Valley which are both in the middle of the core metro.

Your parents must have been pretty light on you as a child, because that's not exactly a "spanking". And you're confusing your facts here a bit. "Fairmount Park" for those who don't know is the name given to the entire Philadelphia Park System--it's not one park. The problem here is that you compared *ALL* of Philly's parks with only ONE of DC's. Thus, while 9,200 acres is impressive, D.C. has significantly more parkland (7,600+ acres) per resident and in relation to its size than Philadelphia. DC is, in fact, second only to New York in terms of parkland per resident, and leads the country in parkland per acre of city.

And comparing the Poconos to the Shenandoah? I don't think so. I've spent time in both, and find the Shenandoah far more impressive. Philly has the Gorge, DC has Great Falls. Valley Forge might impress me if it wasn't one humongous convention center and tourist trap.

I would have posted some photos of DC, but seeing as how we're one of the most photographed cities in the country, I figured everyone's probably already seen them.

One last fact check is in order: Philly is actually the 6th largest city, not 5th. Phoenix is larger.

[TrippingJay]

I think both cities have their good and bad points and neither is necessarily worse or better than the other.

If I had to choose, I would pick Philly, as it is not as overpriced as DC is and has much more character and has preserved it's history better. Philly has many more unique places in the city and also several main-street towns that are much more appealing that the fake and contrived "downtowns" DC has.
Sorry, but Gallery Place has the same places you'd find at Tysons.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Mr/Mrs Bluefly I'm afraid I am going to have to take you to task on this issue . In all due respect to Detroit it may as well be in a different solar system as there is absolutely no comparison to Philadelphia. You are extremely misguided regarding this matter.

By the way Washington is closer to Detroit than Philadlephi is to Washington in murder rate year ending 2008.

Detroit- 37.6
Washington-32.1
Philadelphia- 22.9

Wow. My point soared so far over your head I don't think you even noticed it. Here. I'll do it for you:

"Just a bit of hometown proclivity here perhaps. Dont let your biasness [sic] cloud reality. There are good things happening and great cities beside Washington DC. Even though many Detroit neighborhoods have seen better days keep in mind this was one of the countrys [sic] heavy hitters for the first 75% of its lifespan. Detroit was a juggernaut and the architectural, historic and cultural institutions document that."

See? Detroit was the "Paris of the West" in the 1920s. It had the busiest intersection in the world downtown. It had oppulent wealth poured into its gilded architecture and created cultural institutions that remain amongst the best in the world. It was the epicenter of industry and the birthplace of many of the staples of modern life. Sounds a little like Philly, doesn't it?

All that means very little today.

My only point was that you can't compare DC (a region thriving with the 10 of the 20 wealthiest counties in the country and the top 3 wealthiest) by talking about the historical contributions of Philly. It's just not an apples-apples comparison. Many Middle Eastern cities burdened by war and religious fanaticism today were also once the epicenters of civilization, culture, and innovation. You have to compare cities in like time periods. That's all. Carry on.

[coldbliss]

Bluefly,

The only reason why DC grew into economic juggernaut during the past 15 years was because of federal government spending. We are now looking at a $1.2 trillion budget deficit heading into 2010--this doesn't even factor in President Obama's $800-$900 billion economic stimulus plan and another in $350 billion in middle-class tax cuts.

What will happen when (NOT IF) China, Japan, Great Britain, and United Arab Emirates stop buying US treasuries? Total collapse of our economic system. Which means total collapse of the federal government. The United States will have to pay down its debt by raising taxes and cutting spending by horrific margins. Federal jobs will have to be slashed by tens of thousands across the DC region. Billions of dollars in federal contracts that have propped up information technology companies in Northern Virginia and DC will be gone for good. DC law firms will suffer because the government has no money for corporate welfare.

In other words, DC is the Paris of today but I guarantee this city will become the Detroit/Cleveland of tomorrow. Enjoy the good times while they last in the murky swamp called our Nation's Capital.

I am more bullish on Philly in the long term than DC. At least the businesses in the Philly region don't look for federal government handouts in order to survive.

Originally Posted by Bluefly

You could insert "Detroit" in the above paragraph and make the exact same point. While Detroit is a truly fascinating city, it doesn't mean it can hold a candle to DC today.

I'm not trying to knock Philly, but I think you're accurate in your assessment of "hometown proclivity".