Are we REALLY in a recession? (homes, unemployment, buying)

[saltzman143]

AGAIN: It is wildly inaccurate to claim that the problems of Washington are generally found in any major metro; please see the Census Bureau’s list of Top 25 major metro areas in the US.

In San Diego, I have never seen traffic like DC's.
In Seattle, I found the downtown to be very vibrant and lots of non-chain establishments that were open late (to say nothing of the fabulous neighborhoods).
In Philadelphia, I did not have to drive 30 miles to take an international flight.
In Los Angeles, I found the cleanest (read: no rats) restaurants in the country (memo to DC Health Dept: they even get grades for cleanliness).

If DC’s problems were like every other city’s problems, then why would AAA, the EPA or the Milken Institute et al rank DC at the tops of its traffic, cost of living and/or pollution lists? I have lived in the District and I have lived in the MD/VA suburbs, and it doesn’t matter: traffic, pollution, filth and obnoxious people can be found all over the region.

Seems to me that the negatives (already exhaustively discussed) far outweight the positives (great job market). C’mon folks, you can’t even get a decent slice of pizza in this town! That right there is a dealbreaker for me. Not to mention that the DC area has extremely high CANCER RATES (hmmm, could it be as a result of the pollution?)

Perhaps one reason why I see so many rats (human and non-human) is because I am a runner and get a close-up view of everything and everyone. It’s the best way to really see a city and study its problems. I highly recommend going for a run along Connecticut Avenue NW (in DC) on a weeknight (after dark); count how many people you see urinating at the bus stop; and then report back.

As fas as how does this apply to “are we really in a recession”? Please ask MDbound2.

PS: Reps to JimGriiffith for speaking truth to power.

[juniperbleu]

I never said that DC's problems are exactly the same as every other city, I just meant that similar issues exist in other cities. I was also just saying that the experience you describe ("traffic, pollution, filth and obnoxious people") is very different than the one I have had.

By the way, Long Island has very high breast cancer rates, LA's traffic is just as bad (if not worse) and I know several people who swear New York and Atlanta are worse, and I've seen more rats in a nice, uptown neighborhood in Philadelphia than I have here. I don't know how many people I've met who have stated that one reason they love DC is because of "how clean it is" compared to others. I also don't drive 30 miles to travel internationally (and often pay less than getting out to Dulles). Does that mean that DC is nirvana? Not necessarily, but for many people the positives here still outweigh the negatives (it's not just the job market). It's not the cesspool that some people like to describe. After all, COL gets jacked up for a reason...

By the way, I agree with you on the pizza, it's a travesty

[ceejamon]

Originally Posted by juniperbleu

I never said that DC's problems are exactly the same as every other city, I just meant that similar issues exist in other cities. I was also just saying that the experience you describe ("traffic, pollution, filth and obnoxious people") is very different than the one I have had.

By the way, Long Island has very high breast cancer rates, LA's traffic is just as bad (if not worse) and I know several people who swear New York and Atlanta are worse, and I've seen more rats in a nice, uptown neighborhood in Philadelphia than I have here. I don't know how many people I've met who have stated that one reason they love DC is because of "how clean it is" compared to others. I also don't drive 30 miles to travel internationally (and often pay less than getting out to Dulles). Does that mean that DC is nirvana? Not necessarily, but for many people the positives here still outweigh the negatives (it's not just the job market). It's not the cesspool that some people like to describe. After all, COL gets jacked up for a reason...

By the way, I agree with you on the pizza, it's a travesty

I'll give you the pizza, that's for sure. But then again, I haven't been impressed with any food I've had this far north other than "fine dining" BS. What I wouldn't give for a really good cajun or tex-mex restaurant! I won't even get into soul food. Thank god my momma taught me how to cook.

As for flying, Reagan is just a metro ride and is normally the same price as Dulles for when I fly home to Louisiana. As for cleanliness - DC is cleaner than Paris. I disagree with the job market being the only positive, but I guess it depends on what you're into.

[juniperbleu]

Originally Posted by ceejamon

I'll give you the pizza, that's for sure. But then again, I haven't been impressed with any food I've had this far north other than "fine dining" BS. What I wouldn't give for a really good cajun or tex-mex restaurant! I won't even get into soul food. Thank god my momma taught me how to cook.

I think we've all got a hankering for some regional food that just isn't satisfied here

[KT13]

Originally Posted by saltzman143

AGAIN: It is wildly inaccurate to claim that the problems of Washington are generally found in any major metro; please see the Census Bureau’s list of Top 25 major metro areas in the US.

In San Diego, I have never seen traffic like DC's.
In Seattle, I found the downtown to be very vibrant and lots of non-chain establishments that were open late (to say nothing of the fabulous neighborhoods).
In Philadelphia, I did not have to drive 30 miles to take an international flight.
In Los Angeles, I found the cleanest (read: no rats) restaurants in the country (memo to DC Health Dept: they even get grades for cleanliness).

If DC’s problems were like every other city’s problems, then why would AAA, the EPA or the Milken Institute et al rank DC at the tops of its traffic, cost of living and/or pollution lists? I have lived in the District and I have lived in the MD/VA suburbs, and it doesn’t matter: traffic, pollution, filth and obnoxious people can be found all over the region.

Seems to me that the negatives (already exhaustively discussed) far outweight the positives (great job market). C’mon folks, you can’t even get a decent slice of pizza in this town! That right there is a dealbreaker for me. Not to mention that the DC area has extremely high CANCER RATES (hmmm, could it be as a result of the pollution?)

Perhaps one reason why I see so many rats (human and non-human) is because I am a runner and get a close-up view of everything and everyone. It’s the best way to really see a city and study its problems. I highly recommend going for a run along Connecticut Avenue NW (in DC) on a weeknight (after dark); count how many people you see urinating at the bus stop; and then report back.

As fas as how does this apply to “are we really in a recession”? Please ask MDbound2.

PS: Reps to JimGriiffith for speaking truth to power.

I apologize for sidetracking this thread, but your examples are not really accurate.

San Diego metro area cannot be compared to DC metro area, you have to go with the Bay Area or at least Seattle area to make a fair comparison. San Diego simply isn't the metro area of the same caliber as DC. I mean that it is not in the same category to make a fair comparison. Everyone knows how horrible Bay Area traffic is and I can tell you Seattle isn't a fun ride during rush hour either.

Seattle downtown is a lot more compact in comparison with DC's downtown. It occupies a smaller area where most buildings are a lot higher than in DC, so it's more dense. It also has a rather large shopping area with department stores and many smaller stores right downtown. Most hotels are also concentrated downtown unlike DC where hotels are scattered around different neighborhoods. So, the combination of high density, small area, hotels and shopping would naturally create a little more foot traffic after hours than a downtown that is more spread out where there are more pockets of just business buildings and lunch places. Even in Seattle, I can tell you, downtown gets deserted after certain hour, it's only really busy during the 'happy hour'.

As far as airport distance is concerned, I don't really think DC has a problem here in comparison with other major metro areas. Large international airports are meant to serve the entire metro area and even some closer small towns around. So, it's unfair to say that it's far from DC, it is inside DC metro area and if you happen to live in Dullas corridor then you are quite close to it. Most international airports aren't really smack in the middle of the city or close to downtown. It's true for other countries as well. You can't really complain about it. SFO airport is really far for those living in Marin County or in Pleasanton, it's also not as close to the city either. LAX is close to you if you live in Marina Del Rey or Santa Monica or other close by areas, but if you live in Thousand Oaks or Pasadena, it's a painful drive. I used to usually give myself 2 hours to drive from thousand oaks to LAX when I worked there. Kennedy airport is also not an easy place to get to from Manhattan, try taking public transportation there.. I can go on and on. DC is actually in much better position having easily accessible from downtown Reagan airport serving major airlines with connections to international flights. I usually fly from there as my airline doesn't have much presence in Dullas anyway.

All in all DC is very comparable to other major cities and metro areas. And if you have traveled extensively overseas and have seen the mega cities of the world, DC would appear not even clean but quaint. Even compare it to San Francisco and Seattle, IMO, DC is a little cleaner, a little less drug activity right in your face in comparison with Seattle and a little less homeless on the streets, a little more green everywhere. As far as rats are concerned, I yet have to visit a city where I've not seen any. Our building in Santa Monica was 'treated' for rats, I've actually seen two huge rats right outside our garage area (and it was a pretty posh apartment building right on the beach), so I seriously doubt LA area restaurants are the cleanest.

[Phoenix Blaze]

Originally Posted by MDbound2

I'm so confused with DC. Since there are so many jobs and DC is so stable with the federal government, then why are there so many posts that DC is unfriendly? You would think that DC would be the friendliest place ever since the area is recession-proof, right?

I've been living and working in the DC metro for two years, before the recession started and people are still the same... ignorant, neutral, paranoid, fake, careless, selfish. Also incompetent especially at government jobs. I think it people are only nice when you meet somebody through someone you already know. You can't make friends with a stranger, unless you are in some kind of organization or make a community contribution.

[saltzman143]

KT: I cannot have a discussion with anyone who would imply that Washington, DC, is a more desirable city than Seattle or San Francisco. I guess our definitions of desirability are quite different. However, it's not by accident that Washington continually ranks at the top of the lists of worst traffic, pollution, road rage, cost of living, rat infestation, rudeness, etc.

(See Phoenix Blaze post.)

PS: The reason that the things you mention above as undesirable may be "less in your face" in DC is perhaps because DC does a very good job of hiding and relocating its "eyesores" and "problems". It is the Nation's Capital, after all. It has an image to upkeep.

[dcsfanatic]

Originally Posted by saltzman143

KT: I cannot have a discussion with anyone who would imply that Washington, DC, is a more desirable city than Seattle or San Francisco. I guess our definitions of desirability are quite different. However, it's not by accident that Washington continually ranks at the top of the lists of worst traffic, pollution, road rage, cost of living, rat infestation, rudeness, etc.

And I cannot have a discussion with anyone who refuses to acknowledge people have different tastes and look for different things in a city.

We get it. You hate DC. You've been arguing the same things for the last 3 pages of this thread.

You take one thing you like better about 4 other areas as some kind of proof that DC is totally unique in all its problems.

[smakawhat]

Originally Posted by saganista

Oddly, people who focus on and then grossly exaggerate the city's problems tend to have a harder time here. Too bad. Think of all they are missing...

Couldn't agree more

[LARicky]

After living in DC most of my life, we moved to Los Angeles in 2007. When we lived in DC we were like the Saltzman poster, we griped about this and that and the people. I can tell you certainly that the rest of the country is definitely in a recession. When we travel back to DC, people do not seem as worried about the economy. I can tell you it's a mess here in California and I can't wait to get back to DC, give me the bubble any day. I have found a job in DC even in the recession and we are moving back next week and can not wait. To all the gripers, you need to go live somewhere else for comparison. Wherever you live there are trade offs, but having a well paying interesting career and job security is huge. We are so happy to be heading back to DC and will never take it for granted again, we are staying until we retire this time. To all the Saltzmans out there, I say stop complaining and go enjoy your life. There are so many great interesting people in DC, just because they respect your privacy on the train doesn't mean they're cold or arrogant. Can't wait to get home!