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Hello! I am considering looking at government jobs in Washington DC within the next few years. From what I understand, many government employees will be retiring which will open up slots for new workers to fill.
However, the jobs I'm interested in only pay around $35-45K per year. I currently live in a very low cost-of-living area (Pennsylvania). So, while
35K-45K in my area would not make anyone rich, you certainly can get by well on that level of income here. The housing where I live is VERY cheap, and I have a commute of less than 5 minutes to where I work!
But am I realistic in thinking I could work in Washington DC and live somewhere around the DC region on such a salary level?
Would I ever be able to afford a house? I would want to have my own place (apartment at first). I'm in my mid to late 30s, so I really don't want to share a place with 2-3 other people as I might have liked when I was younger.
Everyone I've known who has moved to DC tells me how unbelievably expensive that area is. Although the government jobs there look attractive, I don't want to move there and have a worse standard of living than I do now. Nor would I want to live in an area where I'd have no realistic chance of ever affording a house.
One guy I know (who used to live in DC but move out) said that you really need to be making around 100K to have any kind of decent living there.
Then there are the horror tales I've heard of the DC commute. I think it would drive me nuts to spend 1-2 hours (each way) in a car going to work!
I'll be honest with you. Living in D.C. on 35k-45k per year will be financially difficult. It will not be impossible, but difficult.
With regards to housing, I suggest that you consider living with roomates -- preferably close to your place of employment. Many young professionals do this -- especially those new to D.C. Since working for the "government" here could mean potentially working anywhere in D.C., Maryland, or Virginia, I cannot steer you to any particular area -- at least not yet. However, I can say that apartment-sharing or house-sharing is easily found in numerous N.W. DC neighborhods and in Arlington, VA.
You will find the cost of living in greater Washington very high, but not prohibitively so. Just use common sense in budgeting!
While the federal government does face an upcoming wave of retirements that is even greater than that facing most industries as the result of the baby-boomer bulge, very few of those people will be retiring from positions in the $35-45K range. A GS-7 (entry level for a college grad) starts at $38K with an expectation to be a GS-9 at $46K within 12-15 months if you do well. Surviving on such a salary alone in DC is difficult, and will be extra difficult in one's late 30's when an ability to get by for a couple of years with a mattress thrown in the corner of a one-room basement walkdown in a somewhat seedy area has probably gone by the boards.
Commuting in this area is the number one lifestyle killer. People simply don't pay enough attention to it. You can have a reasonable commute if you treat it as a top three type of consideration. If you don't, it can easily become a nightmare that ruins all the many good things that the area would have to offer if it weren't for that blasted commute. So give that matter the serious attention that it's due.
Bottom line is that it sounds like you have things pretty well in PA. You'd likely be taking a signficant step down for a few years at least by coming to DC on the terms you've outlined. It might be well to think twice about that, and it will certainly be well to do your homework so that you indeed know what you are getting into before you get into it...
I suppose it depends on what one thinks of as "comfortable and okay" living.
Rent and housing costs are the biggest issues when it comes to cost of living differences between DC and other areas. Gas, utilities and groceries aren't remarkably different (maybe 10% more expensive). Halfway decent one-bedroom apartments generally start at $1000/month, and this is in the non-trendy suburbs. If you're living in DC proper or one of the close-in suburbs like Arlington, you can expect to be paying closer to around $1300 not including utilities, and even more if you live in the most desirable neighborhoods in DC. Figure out your other monthly expenses in regards to food, car payments, cell phone bill, car insurance (likely higher down here), and the like and tack it onto the rent, and see how much of your paycheck you'd be left with (your take home pay would be around $2400-3000 each month going by the annual incomes your posted), and if that's enough for you be comfortable with. In my opinion, it should be enough, but it won't be enough to be comfortable (especially if at the lower-end of that salary scale and living in a "cooler" area) in that you will have to budget yourself somewhat carefully and may have to watch things like eating out and such to make sure you don't go over, and it's likely not enough to allow for great savings to purchase a house any time soon, at least not in this area. You'll probably have less spending money left over at the end of each month than you do now in Pennsylvania and from a purely financial standpoint, it seems to make the most sense for you to stay in Pennsylvania.
Personally, as much of a "regression" as it may feel like, if you do decide to move, I'd recommend saving a bit of cash by renting out a room in someone's home as many people of all ages do here to make ends meet. You could even rent out an entire basement with it's own entrance so that it feels more like your own space, and the cost would be cheaper than a one-bedroom apartment.
Oh, and I also have to add that I greatly disagree with your friend who stated that you need to be earning 100K to make a decent living in DC. I guess "decent" is subjective, but provided you are single and only supporting yourself, 100K should be PLENTY of cash and then some, to be making a very good living and maintain a good life in DC. Supporting a family of course is another issue, but even then, I feel 100K can afford at the very least a decent living.
I have to agree with Yankee on this one. The entry level federal government jobs haven't kept up with the recent rise in the cost of living for the area. Expect to pay at least $1,000/month rent for a one bedroom. If you want to live near a metro line, increase that to 1350 plus. So, if you are not prepared to share a place - it just might be a stretch for you. As far as buying a place, it's hard to say without knowing how much cash you have, or will get as a gift etc. But- one bedroom condo on a metro line are in the $400Ks, and can be in the $300Ks near a metro line (ie- bus-to-metro)
Only you would know if you can afford that. Good luck.
"I'll be honest with you. Living in D.C. on 35k-45k per year will be financially difficult. It will not be impossible, but difficult. With regards to housing, I suggest that you consider living with roomates -- preferably close to your place of employment. Many young professionals do this -- especially those new to D.C."
Thanks for your advice. What you suggest is of course an option. But I'd be in my late 30s by the time I moved to the DC area (if I decide to do that).
I certainly wouldn't be a "young professional" by that time, so I just can't see myself shacking up with 2-3 or more roomates. At a younger age, yes, but not now.
"A GS-7 (entry level for a college grad) starts at $38K with an expectation to be a GS-9 at $46K within 12-15 months if you do well. Surviving on such a salary alone in DC is difficult, and will be extra difficult in one's late 30's when an ability to get by for a couple of years with a mattress thrown in the corner of a one-room basement walkdown in a somewhat seedy area has probably gone by the boards."
Exactly, and that's one of my concerns as well. I just can't see myself getting excited about taking a fed job in DC if I'm going to have such a shoddy standard of living for several years. And the fact that I'd be in my late 30s by then certainly means I'd have less "tolerance" for it as well.
Saganista also wrote:
"Commuting in this area is the number one lifestyle killer. People simply don't pay enough attention to it. You can have a reasonable commute if you treat it as a top three type of consideration. If you don't, it can easily become a nightmare that ruins all the many good things that the area would have to offer if it weren't for that blasted commute. So give that matter the serious attention that it's due."
Unless one is taking advantage of the commute time (reading, audio books, etc), then to me it's just wasted time if a commute to a job takes 1-2 hours each way. And if the drive or travel is stressful, than that's another drawback to it. I've heard horrible stories about the DC commute. If it's as bad as I hear it is, then it must truly "sap the life" out of a good many people who do it year after year.
Also, if it's a commute by car (with the high cost of gas), then that's an even bigger expense that would help eat away a GS-7 or GS-9 salary even more. Then of course there is the high price of parking in DC that I keep hearing about, high car insurance rates, etc.
Lastly, Saganista wrote:
"Bottom line is that it sounds like you have things pretty well in PA. You'd likely be taking a signficant step down for a few years at least by coming to DC on the terms you've outlined. It might be well to think twice about that, and it will certainly be well to do your homework so that you indeed know what you are getting into before you get into it..."
You are right in that I do have things pretty well here in PA in a number of "quality of life" areas. Here are a couple of more things I wanted to mention about my life here in PA. Although the cost-of-living is quite low, I live in an area that has been pretty hard hit by manufacturing job losses in recent years. So although it's cheap here, there isn't as much economic opportunity and growth as there is elsewhere.
Secondly (and I think this is a BIG thing to consider), although I have not yet purchased my first home, my parents are leaving me the family home (nice 1950s built home with a large number of things updated, new things put in, old things replaced, etc).
This house has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, and it is situated quite well in my town. It's also a very nice house for someone to raise a family in. Not because it's in any "rich" section, but because of all the things that are located quite close to this house. Here are some examples:
- It's close to a grocery store
- It's very close to a private college (so it could also be rented out)
- It's very close to a public grade school and a Catholic grade school
- It's close to two parks/athletic fields (one park with a nice playground)
- Several churches are nearby of various denominations.
- It's close to a highly-rated public high school
- It's close to a number of different Doctor's offices of varying specialties, a dentist office (half a block away), a family-owned dry cleaner, a couple of mom and pop pizza places and restaurants, and a nice hardware store
- It's close to a main bus line that will take someone right downtown
So as you can see, I have a nice house "waiting in the wings" for me that would be perfect for raising a family at some point in the future in due to all the thing's it's located near. Or, I could rent the house out. And as I said, the cost-of-living here is very CHEAP also. The problem, again, is that there just isn't all that much economic opportunity and growth here.
On the other hand, there IS lots of economic opportunity and growth down in Washington DC. And this is true in both the PUBLIC and PRIVATE sectors. The biggest downsides that I see with taking a federal job in DC is that the high cost-of-living and horrible traffic situation would make it very hard to make a decent living, nearly impossible to ever have a house, and the "draining" commute would certainly impact the quality of life.
Too bad someone couldn't import some of those nice federal DC jobs here to my town in Pennsylvania.
"Oh, and I also have to add that I greatly disagree with your friend who stated that you need to be earning 100K to make a decent living in DC. I guess "decent" is subjective, but provided you are single and only supporting yourself, 100K should be PLENTY of cash and then some, to be making a very good living and maintain a good life in DC. Supporting a family of course is another issue, but even then, I feel 100K can afford at the very least a decent living."
He may have been exaggerating somewhat. I'm sure a single person could live reasonably well on that salary, but as you said, supporting a family on that amount is another issue.
Remember when Tom Ridge stepped down as Homeland Security Director last year? One of the things that was rumored to be weighing heavily in his decision is that the 160K or 170K salary he was earning just wasn't enough to support his family all that great in such an expensive area (wife and two kids).
Exactly, and that's one of my concerns as well. I just can't see myself getting excited about taking a fed job in DC if I'm going to have such a shoddy standard of living for several years. And the fact that I'd be in my late 30s by then certainly means I'd have less "tolerance" for it as well.
Well, unlike most GS-7's and GS-9's, the later post indicates you may have some additional cash flow from renting out the PA house. At $40K, you can basically afford about $1000/month for housing, and that isn't going to cut it re anyplace decent. But if the house will dump a few hundred or so a month on top of that for you, things start to look different. Renting the house will also provide you with some tax deductions that typical new-hires wouldn't have, so this is starting to sound a little more feasible. I'd still say that you won't make any money off this deal (unless you can cop a promotion or two), but the change of pace and lifestyle might be doable without having to live like a street person if you've got that extra cash behind you to work with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Man
Unless one is taking advantage of the commute time (reading, audio books, etc), then to me it's just wasted time if a commute to a job takes 1-2 hours each way. And if the drive or travel is stressful, than that's another drawback to it. I've heard horrible stories about the DC commute. If it's as bad as I hear it is, then it must truly "sap the life" out of a good many people who do it year after year.
There are tons of horror stories out there because people simply don't plan their commutes. You have to be able to afford your housing, and it has to be of a suitable type (you don't want a fourth-floor walk-up if you've just had hip-replacement surgery), but after that, being able to fit it into a comfortable commute should be the most important thing. Instead people worry about factors like schools and crime and sex-offenders. Those are all important enough, but the variability across a region is negligible. The difference between a 50-minute commute and an hour and 45 minutes is not negligible, but people in significant numbers don't seem to grasp the concept. The last time I had to drive home from my office (just north of the White House to Vienna/Oakton-ish), I left at 5:30 and arrived at 7:15 ready to kill the first person who talked to me. No big accidents. No bridge collapses. That's just typical for that trip at that hour. Fortunately, on a normal day, the journey would take me 50 minutes via Metro, and I'd arrive home in fine fettle, having once again conquered the Post-Express crossword puzzle along the way. Moral of the story is to be sure that there is a workable commute between the given job site and the chosen residence site, but most people simply don't do it, and many of those suffer what end up being terrible consequences as the result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Man
Then of course there is the high price of parking in DC that I keep hearing about, high car insurance rates, etc.
Parking downtown that's near to anyplace starts at $15 per day and goes up from there. You can cut into that a little bit with a monthly pass, but it's expensive no matter how you slice it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Man
You are right in that I do have things pretty well here in PA in a number of "quality of life" areas...
Yes, and you might have to trade some of those in for the experience that the city would have to offer. But if you have the PA situation to help support you a little bit, and that you could and would want to go back to in time, and you look then at DC as being some sort of 5-year or whatever experimental adventure period, there could be some sense to it. And you never know. When I first took my job, I looked at it as 3-5 years of network-building and resume-padding. By that schedule, I should have left 30 years ago, but I've been having too much fun to give it up. Who'd have thought that would happen? Anyway, I think you have kind of a close call on your hands. It could always turn into a train wreck here, but if you think it's something that you really want to do, and that in 15 or 20 years you'll regret not having done it if you don't, then, with the PA situation to back you up, I think I might pursue it -- at least to the point of encountering something that conclusively talked you out of it...
"Well, unlike most GS-7's and GS-9's, the later post indicates you may have some additional cash flow from renting out the PA house. At $40K, you can basically afford about $1000/month for housing, and that isn't going to cut it re anyplace decent. But if the house will dump a few hundred or so a month on top of that for you, things start to look different. Renting the house will also provide you with some tax deductions that typical new-hires wouldn't have, so this is starting to sound a little more feasible. I'd still say that you won't make any money off this deal (unless you can cop a promotion or two), but the change of pace and lifestyle might be doable without having to live like a street person if you've got that extra cash behind you to work with."
Good points made there. But my taking over the house probably would not happen for at least 5 years. So it wouldn't help supplement any salary I'd make in Washington in the near future.
To put this another way, I'll SOMEDAY have my own home here in PA if I want it. In contrast, everything I've read about home ownership in the DC area makes it appear that I'd NEVER be able to afford a home there. Certainly not on a government salary it seems.
Saganista wrote:
"There are tons of horror stories out there because people simply don't plan their commutes. You have to be able to afford your housing, and it has to be of a suitable type (you don't want a fourth-floor walk-up if you've just had hip-replacement surgery), but after that, being able to fit it into a comfortable commute should be the most important thing. Instead people worry about factors like schools and crime and sex-offenders. Those are all important enough, but the variability across a region is negligible. The difference between a 50-minute commute and an hour and 45 minutes is not negligible, but people in significant numbers don't seem to grasp the concept. The last time I had to drive home from my office (just north of the White House to Vienna/Oakton-ish), I left at 5:30 and arrived at 7:15 ready to kill the first person who talked to me. No big accidents. No bridge collapses. That's just typical for that trip at that hour. Fortunately, on a normal day, the journey would take me 50 minutes via Metro, and I'd arrive home in fine fettle, having once again conquered the Post-Express crossword puzzle along the way. Moral of the story is to be sure that there is a workable commute between the given job site and the chosen residence site, but most people simply don't do it, and many of those suffer what end up being terrible consequences as the result."
Whenever I read about work and travel issues involving larger urban areas, one of the common problems/situations is that long commutes mostly result from the inability of people to afford living close to where they work. I don't have that problem here in Pennsylvania. Not in the least. In fact, I probably have what many would call a "dream" commute situation. But I have no doubt that what you say about people failing to put much thought or planning into their commutes is true, and it probably has resulted in many commutes being made substantially worse than they have to be.
Saganista wrote:
"Parking downtown that's near to anyplace starts at $15 per day and goes up from there. You can cut into that a little bit with a monthly pass, but it's expensive no matter how you slice it."
Wow! That's even worse than I thought. Do you know if government employees in the DC area are ever given any kind of parking benefit or validation?
$15 dollars a day sure doesn't seem like much at first, but that's nearly $4,000 a year. Damn. Right now I'm paying ZERO for parking at work. I didn't realize that working in DC could mean an additional drain on my take home income of $4,000 (or more). Thanks for that information. I figured it might be a couple of grand a year. Looks like I was wrong by at least 50 percent!
Saganista wrote:
"Yes, and you might have to trade some of those in for the experience that the city would have to offer. But if you have the PA situation to help support you a little bit, and that you could and would want to go back to in time, and you look then at DC as being some sort of 5-year or whatever experimental adventure period, there could be some sense to it. And you never know. When I first took my job, I looked at it as 3-5 years of network-building and resume-padding. By that schedule, I should have left 30 years ago, but I've been having too much fun to give it up. Who'd have thought that would happen? Anyway, I think you have kind of a close call on your hands. It could always turn into a train wreck here, but if you think it's something that you really want to do, and that in 15 or 20 years you'll regret not having done it if you don't, then, with the PA situation to back you up, I think I might pursue it -- at least to the point of encountering something that conclusively talked you out of it."
That's really how I look at the whole DC option in many ways. I can't for the life of me ever see it as a permanent thing. But I'm sure I could do it for 3-5 years with the hope of moving back to Pennsylvania at some point afterward. That's of course if I can use the DC experience as a resume builder and land a good job back home. Not too many people can look ahead to having a house left to them that has the many positive things about it that I listed earlier. Owning my own house at some point is very important to me. I don't mind paying rent, but I'm just flabbergasted hearing the stories of people paying 15K or 20K a year for renting some small dinky apartment! I'm sure for many DC residents paying that kind of rent seems common. But in my area, people can have a very nice home while paying substantially less in mortgage payments than what many people are paying for RENT in DC.
I also want to make sure I can save for retirement. Yet, it seems like a life in the DC area would be such a drain on take-home income that saving much for retirement would present a real challenge. One thing that has always made very little sense to me is the concentration of so many government offices/jobs in Washington DC.
We are living in the age of terrorism. It seems to me it would make much better sense if government agencies built up more of a network of satellite offices around the country. Here is one example. After 9/11, the government began hiring many more people for jobs dealing with anti-terrorism and homeland security issues. Right now, there are some 15 or 16 government agencies that employ people working as intelligence analysts.
Yet, look at how many of these jobs are located in the DC area! From a security standpoint alone, wouldn't it make more sense if the government spread out more of those jobs to various satellite and field offices around the country, rather than having them so concentrated in the DC area? That would probably attract a more diverse grouping of talented people to government work.
Additionaly, and from a financial compensation standpoint, it would make even MORE sense. Because although federal government jobs in high cost areas are bolstered by "locality pay" enhancement, the extra money really isn't enough to compensate for the true costs of living in places like DC.
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