New Yorkers migrating to DC?

[tech2enable]

[quote=Bluefly;11043660]It's gotten quite comical. Now it costs just as much to live in Fargo, ND as it does New York City, and there's supposedly no way to prove otherwise.

Nothing is comical, I was referring to people who met certain criteria. I guarantee you that people in the same criteria would not same any money by moving to fargo, ND, willing to bet my money on it too.Especially if you exclude housing, they say ignorance is bliss and that seems to be perpetuated by the stereotypes and generalizations here,

Oh fargo must be cheaper than city x, besides house prices and if you shop at the local market (most people in those cities may shop at big box stores like costco and sam's club).


But it to you this way, if the cost of housing included and everything else to have it your way, the cost of living in Houston would be cheaper than fargo, now if said person in LA with prop 13 protections from the 1970s moved to houstin, he/she would get no cost savings.

Therefore your generalization is wrong, I offer you to prove me otherwise.

You haven't missed much else. DC is still inferior because it - let me get this word for word - "does not have geographic, political, and housing and transportation layout as new york city and has political problems which the D.C. Appleseed center and others have noted can hinder its progress compared to other cities".

Another thing that is interesting is that, the row houses are expensive like new york city especially DuPont circle and the property taxes are high.The homes , rather townhouses are 1.5-2 million dollars, its actually great I looked, just to confirm that the prices were indeed high.DC prices are approaching brooklyn prices it looks like too, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next two quarters.

In other words, bigger is better, baby!

Not necessarily, that's not the best analogy I used, speaking of which another user chimed in about the better transportation infrastructure, diversity , layout and options, as D.C. prices approach new york levels its never been so more true.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

One final note of closing. Here's a cost-of-living calculation comparison from bankrate.com between Manhattan and DC. Not even close:


So, there's really no comparison in cost-of-living between DC and NY. Even Queens has a higher COL than DC ($50,000 in DC needs to become $57,000 in Queens).

Although I have already debunked this, I forgot add one important note:

You choose to use the DC METRO AREA as comparison, which includes the suburbs of loudon and fairfax, prince william who's market crashed, and other distant suburbs such as faquier and stafford.

Why not compare the cities themselves to Queens and Brooklyn to update information.

Another example of fudging the statistics although you may have overlooked it.

[BWALDON]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

Yep, and a lot of what you wrote sticks in the craw of the "New York is the center of the universe" crowd. To them, everything else is second-rate, and it is unfathomable why anyone would want to live anywhere else.

Which is not to say that NYC isn't a fabulous place--it is. But it's a markedly different city than DC, and certainly not inherently superior. Superiority, after all, depends upon what one is looking for.

For me, I love the international, cosmopolitan vibe that DC offers while not being overwhelmingly large. I love that I can take an evening stroll through a dense, urban neighborhood and not feel like I'm in a dense, urban neighborhood. I love the fact that we attract so many smart people who come here to do amazing things. I love that I don't have to be "on" 24 hours a day here. I love that it's such an architecturally gorgeous city. I love that, on practically any night of the week, I can catch a theater performance, drop in on a jazz show, and sit in on a lecture on the failures and successes of U.S. policy in southeast Asia prior to WWI--all free of charge. I love our fantastic museums and art galleries. I love that we don't have a Times Square. I love our gorgeous and pleasant neighborhood parks. I even love our clean Metro system, which is free of grafitti and trash, and doesn't have an offensive odor.

In short, this whole NY vs. DC thing is just silly and, I think, largely contrived by NYCers who, for whatever reason, feel the need to inflate their sense of self-worth by maligning a city like DC and all of its perceived "faults". I could never live in NY, even though I recognize why certain people would want to--something certain NYCers would be advised to consider about DC as well.

I love everthing you wrote about DC. I've been here since 1989 & I've seen the transformation of D.C. & I love it. I thought people moved from one area to another for change or opportunities. Why move & compare, complain. I'm befuddled that people don't appreciate a city thats different from their norm. Oh well......

[BWALDON]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Yeah, I realize that. I was just speaking very broadly about the 4 quadrants. Obviously there are stable areas on the other side of the Anacostia and sketchy areas in NW, but generally speaking the crime that pushes DC's statistics is pretty darn isolated and easy to avoid.

I feel safer in DC than I've ever felt before. I came to D.C. when the crack,turf wars were at its worst and the mayor himself was equally paticipating. We have a new sheriff (mayor) in town and police presence is noticable. Every single major city has its share of crime, so why do we single out Washington crime rates....if you wonder of the beaten path or hang out all hours of the night then your inviting trouble in any neighborhood.

[KT13]

Originally Posted by tech2enable

Another thing that is interesting is that, the row houses are expensive like new york city especially DuPont circle and the property taxes are high.The homes , rather townhouses are 1.5-2 million dollars, its actually great I looked, just to confirm that the prices were indeed high.DC prices are approaching brooklyn prices it looks like too, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next two quarters.

You are right about the prices, it's expensive to own a rowhouse in Dupont or Georgetown or any other premium area of DC. Well, what do you expect? These are most premium and desirable areas. In every major city of the US you will pay more to live in such areas, not a DC specific thing. Go to San Franciso Pacific Heights and try to find a rowhouse there for under 1.5 or 2 million, good luck. Have you looked into other less expensive areas of DC?

Also, again, you are comparing Dupont with Brooklyn! Again you refuse to acknowledge that Manhattan exists. If you compare premium central area in DC please compare it to Manhattan, why Brooklyn? Compare Brooklyn to Arlington or Alexandria. Otherwise, you are actually suggesting that DC doesn't even have a city core of any kind. So, basically the entire district is just one giant NYC borough? Are you doing this to make sure your argument has any sense at all or just simply out of snobbery? You are basically suggesting that even the most premium areas of DC aren't even comparable to the non-premium run of the mill Manhattan neighborhoods. The height of buildings again, doesn't have anything to do with it, DC is just designed differently from most American cities, that's all, but it still is a unique city that stands on its own and has a distinct city core, it's not one giant suburb or a borough.

Originally Posted by tech2enable

Not necessarily, that's not the best analogy I used, speaking of which another user chimed in about the better transportation infrastructure, diversity , layout and options, as D.C. prices approach new york levels its never been so more true.

NYC does have better public transportation, I give it that, it's not to say it's as nice and clean as DC metro. I agree on infrastructure and diversity as well, NYC will take the cup there, although DC is pretty diverse if you also consider multiple suburbs where most of the immigrants tend to concentrate. NYC is also much more industrial, but it isn't necessarily the good thing for people desiring cleaner air and less polluted environment.

As far as layout, I can argue with you on that. I personally prefer the more european DC layout, it makes it much more pleasant to walk around. It's simply prettier, more relaxing and more human scaled and compact. Easy to walk anywhere from anywhere without pockets of ugly and congested streets like there are in Manhattan.

I am not a big fan of Manhattan long grid and getting from East to West side isn't really easy as subways don't serve cross-island routes well. The roads are very congested and it can take longer in a taxi to get 'across' from the east to the west than it can take to travel 3 miles 'along' south/north. As far as boroughs, I don't see what is so appealing about the layout of ugly highways and railways, dusty industrial abandoned buildings and patches of ghetto land. there are pretty areas in the boroughs, but just like everywhere else, there is some good and pretty and there is some bad and ugly. Don't see what's so superior to the layout of NYC in comparison with another city like DC for example. If anything, DC is pretty unique and different from other American cities in it's layout, it's is created to resemble Paris, so it actually was 'engineered' to look pretty and appealing from the start go.

NYC does have a superior skyline, I'd give it that, and there are amazing views from many different points, and there is more water around. It's just different.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by tech2enable

Although I have already debunked this, I forgot add one important note:

You choose to use the DC METRO AREA as comparison, which includes the suburbs of loudon and fairfax, prince william who's market crashed, and other distant suburbs such as faquier and stafford.

Why not compare the cities themselves to Queens and Brooklyn to update information.

Another example of fudging the statistics although you may have overlooked it.

Thus, why I included comparisons to Brooklyn and Queens. Can't fudge a head-to-head with Queens and still have DC come out less expensive.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by KT13

You are right about the prices, it's expensive to own a rowhouse in Dupont or Georgetown or any other premium area of DC. Well, what do you expect? These are most premium and desirable areas. In every major city of the US you will pay more to live in such areas, not a DC specific thing. Go to San Franciso Pacific Heights and try to find a rowhouse there for under 1.5 or 2 million, good luck. Have you looked into other less expensive areas of DC?

Its overpriced, San Francisco real estate is expensive and may be overprices, buts its expensive for different reasons, a lot of wealthy silicon valley entrepreneurs and billionaires may own homes there, true D.C. has its wealth but its not like Sf's wealth, you have high income earners in D.C. and defense contractors but in terms of billionares and the real expensive real estate SF is different, also SF has rent control and prop 13, you failed to mention those two reasons, you have to assume that drives up prices and not everbody's housing cost is expensive.


Also, again, you are comparing Dupont with Brooklyn! Again you refuse to acknowledge that Manhattan exists. If you compare premium central area in DC please compare it to Manhattan, why Brooklyn? Compare Brooklyn to Arlington or Alexandria. Otherwise, you are actually suggesting that DC doesn't even have a city core of any kind. So, basically the entire district is just one giant NYC borough? Are you doing this to make sure your argument has any sense at all or just simply out of snobbery? You are basically suggesting that even the most premium areas of DC aren't even comparable to the non-premium run of the mill Manhattan neighborhoods. The height of buildings again, doesn't have anything to do with it, DC is just designed differently from most American cities, that's all, but it still is a unique city that stands on its own and has a distinct city core, it's not one giant suburb or a borough.

D.C. does have a core, so does manhattan and brooklyn, you can't really compare brooklyn to arlington and alexandria because their layout and transportation systems are different, you can't directly compare D.C.'s core to manhattan for many different reasons, not every "core" is the same as every other "core" in the city.Manhattan does not have the same middle management housing and has a lack of comparable properties to D.C.to make a fairer and more directly fairer comparison. There are also not many single family homes in Manhattan as in D.C.




NYC does have better public transportation, I give it that, it's not to say it's as nice and clean as DC metro. I agree on infrastructure and diversity as well, NYC will take the cup there, although DC is pretty diverse if you also consider multiple suburbs where most of the immigrants tend to concentrate.



NYC is also much more industrial, but it isn't necessarily the good thing for people desiring cleaner air and less polluted environment.

More industrial?, manufacturing jobs have largely disappears from the new york city area, D.C. gets a lot of pollution and traffic from commuters from Virginia and maryland, I doubt its much cleaner.

As far as layout, I can argue with you on that. I personally prefer the more european DC layout, it makes it much more pleasant to walk around. It's simply prettier, more relaxing and more human scaled and compact. Easy to walk anywhere from anywhere without pockets of ugly and congested streets like there are in Manhattan.

D.C. streets are just as congested and similar in appearance to Manhattan streets, it depends wear, in Brooklyn the streets are a bit more similar to D.C. , in the areas closer to manhattan, a bit more laid back slightly, I doubt D.C.'s streets are more compact and pleasant to walk around, its probably the same depending on area.

I am not a big fan of Manhattan long grid and getting from East to West side isn't really easy as subways don't serve cross-island routes well. The roads are very congested and it can take longer in a taxi to get 'across' from the east to the west than it can take to travel 3 miles 'along' south/north. As far as boroughs, I don't see what is so appealing about the layout of ugly highways and railways, dusty industrial abandoned buildings and patches of ghetto land. there are pretty areas in the boroughs, but just like everywhere else, there is some good and pretty and there is some bad and ugly. Don't see what's so superior to the layout of NYC in comparison with another city like DC for example. If anything, DC is pretty unique and different from other American cities in it's layout, it's is created to resemble Paris, so it actually was 'engineered' to look pretty and appealing from the start go.

Its true the east to west side isn't easy but it depends, I'm pretty sure D.C. especially with NOVA has "ugly highways", congested and broken roads, in fact the highways in Manhattan are at the far left and east of Manhattan, we are not comparing the two directly though.

D.C. congestion coming if probably just as worse as Manhattan, as far as industrial wastelands, I've never seen them in Manhattan's core , or most places in downtown,, you probably have never really been to a couple parts of manhattan or making a general assumption about industrial wastelands, there are some places outside manhattan where industrial places are being cleaned up.

Patches of ghetto land, ha funny, I am sure D.C. has a greater share of ghetto land places, with its housing projects and tall buildings, and development, I am not sure what you mean by ghetto, but I am sure D.C. has more of a ghetto than most of new york city.

D.C. was not designed to have or be like Paris or any other European history, wonder where you have got that from, until the last 2 decades, its was even worse than it is today.

As far as railways, the railways are all underground except maybe on a few fringes or outside the core, you sound like you've never been there or taking an outside visit, better get the facts straight.

NYC does have a superior skyline, I'd give it that, and there are amazing views from many different points, and there is more water around. It's just different.

Won't argue with that, there are also skylines circling it.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

Thus, why I included comparisons to Brooklyn and Queens. Can't fudge a head-to-head with Queens and still have DC come out less expensive.

Nope, when you include the D.C. metro area you are including places like stafford, prince william, even parts of west virginia!

In fact the WV is even mentioned in the calculator, if you compare bergen passiac which ironically is right next to manhattan although a bit above, its acutally cheaper than the entire DC metro! Why don't use also compare edison and other towns if you want to also.

This suggests that D.C. may be even more expensive than you are claiming it to be.

[Yac]

I think this thread has ran its course.
Closed.
Yac.