New Yorkers migrating to DC? (sale, real estate, condo)

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by dcsfanatic

Your whole post kind of validated 14thandYou's comment that you refuted.

Not necessarily, play close attention.

Can you tell me what it doesn't have that other cities have?

Easy, read below and do a lot of research, of course it does have things other cities don't have such as a large government presence.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by tech2enable

I doubt new yorkers are necessarily drawn to D.C except in reverse, there are government jobs available, and if that's whats available and you decide to put up with the generally low pay vs. cost of living you do that in a recession economy.

It's pretty evident by your statements that you've probably never actually lived in the urban DC, or if you have didn't utilize it.

You speak of the Metro being a secondary form of transportation, yet most people I know in the District don't ever drive and many don't even own cars.

You speak of food based on statistics and reviews (and again the suburbs) but what more does one need than all the restaurants from around the world in Adams Morgan and the surrounding areas? So much great food, even if there aren't world renown chefs like Chicago or NY (and, yes, I've had some fabulous meals from such chefs in those cities).

To compare DC and NY is absurd, but it's the rare cosmopolitan individual who I meet that doesn't love DC and find the work (which is often very unique and fulfilling, not the government drudgery you imagine), the nightlife, the transit, and the structure of the city (a lot's crammed into a little space) very satisfying.

(And, yes, I know NY very well and, no, you can't compare NY's open space without even mentioning per capita. Of course it has more open space...and more people and more industries and more subway lines and more.....blah blah.)

For me, the concentration of intellectual energy mixed with all the rest mentioned above works just fine.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

It's pretty evident by your statements that you've probably never actually lived in the urban DC, or if you have didn't utilize it.

You speak of the Metro being a secondary form of transportation, yet most people I know in the District don't ever drive and many don't even own cars.

It is used as a secondary form of transit for many people in the D.C metro area.

You speak of food based on statistics and reviews (and again the suburbs) but what more does one need than all the restaurants from around the world in Adams Morgan and the surrounding areas? So much great food, even if there aren't world renown chefs like Chicago or NY (and, yes, I've had some fabulous meals from such chefs in those cities).

If we exclude the suburbs, then D.C is even worse shape, most people try to include metro areas in their calculation of areas, for instance atlanta only has 500k people but 5 million in metro.Food is subjective but when you want a great selection of choices and sometimes its lacking in many cities, to go the extra mile , D.C doesn't always go the route.

To compare DC and NY is absurd, but it's the rare cosmopolitan individual who I meet that doesn't love DC and find the work (which is often very unique and fulfilling, not the government drudgery you imagine), the nightlife, the transit, and the structure of the city (a lot's crammed into a little space) very satisfying.

Comparing the two is not absurd, the pay in D.C is not great when combined with the outrageous cost of living, the same can be said of other cities , however you don't seem to get with you pay for. Don't forget D.C's much higher crime rate and fiscal management which is of course why people prefer the suburbs on times.

(And, yes, I know NY very well and, no, you can't compare NY's open space without even mentioning per capita. Of course it has more open space...and more people and more industries and more subway lines and more.....blah blah.)

Per capita?, not sure what you are trying to say , there is a lot of open space in nyc, parks and what-not even more so in the metro area, I don't think space is a debate in this matter. I don't think it has do with more blah blah, its not so much about quantity vs. choice in this scenario.

For me, the concentration of intellectual energy mixed with all the rest mentioned above works just fine.

Perhaps, but see above. As for intellectual energy, that's everywhere , and sometimes intellectual energy doesn't work or produce the results its supposed to especially in D.C, hey politicians come to though after I wrote this.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

I love New York for what it is, but I certainly wouldn't support that poster's claim that NYC is inherently superior to DC (especially the transit system). I've always felt DC offers all the amenities of major cosmopolitan cities on a much smaller scale and with a lot more open space thanks in large part to the large concentration of professionals from around the country and world.

Yep, and a lot of what you wrote sticks in the craw of the "New York is the center of the universe" crowd. To them, everything else is second-rate, and it is unfathomable why anyone would want to live anywhere else.

Which is not to say that NYC isn't a fabulous place--it is. But it's a markedly different city than DC, and certainly not inherently superior. Superiority, after all, depends upon what one is looking for.

For me, I love the international, cosmopolitan vibe that DC offers while not being overwhelmingly large. I love that I can take an evening stroll through a dense, urban neighborhood and not feel like I'm in a dense, urban neighborhood. I love the fact that we attract so many smart people who come here to do amazing things. I love that I don't have to be "on" 24 hours a day here. I love that it's such an architecturally gorgeous city. I love that, on practically any night of the week, I can catch a theater performance, drop in on a jazz show, and sit in on a lecture on the failures and successes of U.S. policy in southeast Asia prior to WWI--all free of charge. I love our fantastic museums and art galleries. I love that we don't have a Times Square. I love our gorgeous and pleasant neighborhood parks. I even love our clean Metro system, which is free of grafitti and trash, and doesn't have an offensive odor.

In short, this whole NY vs. DC thing is just silly and, I think, largely contrived by NYCers who, for whatever reason, feel the need to inflate their sense of self-worth by maligning a city like DC and all of its perceived "faults". I could never live in NY, even though I recognize why certain people would want to--something certain NYCers would be advised to consider about DC as well.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by tech2enable

It is used as a secondary form of transit for many people in the D.C metro area.

As the New York subway system is in NY. No public transit system in the U.S. is the primary people-mover for that particular area. DC ranks behind only Ny in terms if daily subway ridership, and while ridership is approximately 20% of NY's, DC also has only 20% of the number of lines and stops. In actuality then, the numbers are commensurate with each other.

Food is subjective but when you want a great selection of choices and sometimes its lacking in many cities, to go the extra mile , D.C doesn't always go the route.

I'm not entirely certain what this means, but I can tell you that I've had countless exemplary meals at DC restaurants that would, yes, rival that of pricier establishments in NYC. Of course NY has more restaurants than DC (because it's got roughly 15x as many people), but we're well past the days of DC being considered a dining backwater.

Comparing the two is not absurd, the pay in D.C is not great when combined with the outrageous cost of living, the same can be said of other cities , however you don't seem to get with you pay

Wow, coming from a New Yorker, this is a pretty rich statement. Let's see: New York has one of the highest living costs in the world, and its average pay is barely higher than DCs. The DC area, in fact, has the largest concentration of people age 25-34 making over $100k. And never mind that our housing costs are a fraction of what they are in NY. Talk about not getting what you pay for...

Per capita?, not sure what you are trying to say , there is a lot of open space in nyc, parks and what-not even more so in the metro area, I don't think space is a debate in this matter.

Per capita, DC has more green space than any other city in the country. Rock Creek Park alone is over three times larger than Central Park. So you are correct, there really is no debate in this matter.

[Gottasay]

Yes, I've noticed the gold chains, the cursing, the loud sunglasses, the Yankees jerseys and the accent. Just an observation. I expect the quality of the restaurants will improve.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

As the New York subway system is in NY. No public transit system in the U.S. is the primary people-mover for that particular area. DC ranks behind only Ny in terms if daily subway ridership, and while ridership is approximately 20% of NY's, DC also has only 20% of the number of lines and stops. In actuality then, the numbers are commensurate with each other.

Actually, that is not necessarily accurate in context, the Washington Metro crosses several both Maryland and Virginia, so its not really D.C's system maybe I should start by comparing the entire mta and mta affiliated transit systems or maybe rail systems in the NYC, that would make the d.c metro system inferior, some people like it that way. Ok but let's stop there before getting carried away, the D.C metro does not run as often and doesn't run at night except on weekends, now they have other mta rail systems in new york city, too like the metro north and lirr also and maryland does have its marc system, but then we would have to count new jersey transit system them if we were go that far. Daily ridership is about 6 times higher in the new york city subway system.

getting back to high housing costs, usually homes are located far from mass transit, which certain people like.

New york city's transit system is the primary form of mover, half of households do not own a car, so your wrong on that.

http://www.eportfolio.lagcc.cuny.edu...e%20Subway.doc


I'm not entirely certain what this means, but I can tell you that I've had countless exemplary meals at DC restaurants that would, yes, rival that of pricier establishments in NYC. Of course NY has more restaurants than DC (because it's got roughly 15x as many people), but we're well past the days of DC being considered a dining backwater.

You are not entirely certain what this means, D.C may not be as a much as a backwater, but you need to be specific, not all pricier restaurants are better, but D.C. has not be recognized as diverse as nyc although it does have diversity and have a wider variety as opposed to quantity as nyc, it has a while to go

Besides, D.C as not recognized as a alpha world city, although it is important for politics.

Wow, coming from a New Yorker, this is a pretty rich statement. Let's see: New York has one of the highest living costs in the world, and its average pay is barely higher than DCs. The DC area, in fact, has the largest concentration of people age 25-34 making over $100k. And never mind that our housing costs are a fraction of what they are in NY. Talk about not getting what you pay for...

Housing costs in Washington D.C. are not a fraction of New York not even close, in fact if you count transportation options, D.C can be more expensive than many parts of new york city, how much do homes near the Washington metro cost that are not townhouses in better neighborhoods, $2 million, for homes of course that are at least a few thousand square feet.

If you want to count just square footage and land, then D.C and NYC are close to each other. They both have high housing costs vs. cost of living but since you do not get the same amenities and choices (although many will be comfortable with the existing ones as in your case, what D.C. offers)



I've looked at homes myself.

Per capita, DC has more green space than any other city in the country. Rock Creek Park alone is over three times larger than Central Park. So you are correct, there really is no debate in this matter.

The per capita green space is a bit misleading and subjective, there is more to new york city than central park, but even if parkland space was higher per capita, there is more to being green,

NYC was rated one of the greenest cities, although I'm sure that smaller cities could be much more greener

NYC is the Greenest City in America

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by 14thandYou

Yep, and a lot of what you wrote sticks in the craw of the "New York is the center of the universe" crowd. To them, everything else is second-rate, and it is unfathomable why anyone would want to live anywhere else.

Not necessarily true, I doubt many new yorkers think they are in the center of the universe, there is no center, it could be a bit of envy or by people who always think people are arrogant.

Which is not to say that NYC isn't a fabulous place--it is. But it's a markedly different city than DC, and certainly not inherently superior. Superiority, after all, depends upon what one is looking for.

There is a difference between superiority and taste, what you may eat, drink, taste or wear those things are subjective to a large degree, so you look for a wide variety and popularity to try to not have such a wide deviation, for instance while many people may love to try different varities and food and is subjective, people can spot bad food for a lot of people, or when someone can't go back to drinking so and so wine or coffee or food since it was so much better than what they are used to.

Superiority , is superiority, in chess which piece is superior, is the king or queen superior to the son or princess, granted some people in D.C may prefer to have an inferior transit system because they don't want to pay extra taxes for it, or want a more suburban character, in that case certain people may feel D.C area is
"superior" or better in terms of style since they don't like a more urbanized environment , if a person thinks that way and I'm sure lots do which is not necessarily the wrong view, then arguing for superiority may make that person changed their mind.

For me, I love the international, cosmopolitan vibe that DC offers while not being overwhelmingly large. I love that I can take an evening stroll through a dense, urban neighborhood and not feel like I'm in a dense, urban neighborhood. I love the fact that we attract so many smart people who come here to do amazing things. I love that I don't have to be "on" 24 hours a day here. I love that it's such an architecturally gorgeous city. I love that, on practically any night of the week, I can catch a theater performance, drop in on a jazz show, and sit in on a lecture on the failures and successes of U.S. policy in southeast Asia prior to WWI--all free of charge. I love our fantastic museums and art galleries. I love that we don't have a Times Square. I love our gorgeous and pleasant neighborhood parks. I even love our clean Metro system, which is free of grafitti and trash, and doesn't have an offensive odor.

That's subjective, which is not necessarily a problem, but other cities have that as well especially new york, its true the metro is cleaner but not everybody likes the restrictions and people may not like the so sterile environment as well as the type of architecture . Not everybody in new york is a 24 hour person, there are many laid back people, there is nothing D.C has that seattle, chicago, new york doesn't have but there is a lot that it doesn't have although it has large government.

In short, this whole NY vs. DC thing is just silly and, I think, largely contrived by NYCers who, for whatever reason, feel the need to inflate their sense of self-worth by maligning a city like DC and all of its perceived "faults". I could never live in NY, even though I recognize why certain people would want to--something certain NYCers would be advised to consider about DC as well.

Its not silly, and again back to the above comment, there are plenty of faults in both cities, but D.C is not known as the alpha world city and for great reason,

You can be subjective, but you can't really argue with geographic, politics through no fault of the districts residents and in some cases applies to new york city as well (commuter taxes and lack of full representation in congress), Maryland and Virginia leeching of it, high crime and poverty that may be of result of it, corruption and mismanagement, D.C spends a lot more on schools for a lot less result , also if D.C were so great lots of people wouldn't live in the suburbs , whereas they have a lot of suburban places in new york for valid reasons although likeability of the suburbs v. urban is subjective so I won't necessarily say that's the good v. bad.

[tech2enable]

Originally Posted by Gottasay

Yes, I've noticed the gold chains, the cursing, the loud sunglasses, the Yankees jerseys and the accent. Just an observation. I expect the quality of the restaurants will improve.

That may be a stereotype, but certain people do argue against transplants to an area, that's subjective but a matter of debate and discussion of how transient a place may be.

The quality will improve in D.C , it should although it will take time and it is far behind new york city in variety, although many quality resturants and folks are happy with it as well as the variety, in one subjective sense, people may not like certain types of foods or bother with too much selection, but even still its important to keep variety and choice in mind , see the above.

[14thandYou]

First of all, please learn how to properly respond and quote someone in your response. The way you do it makes it appear as if the person you're responding to is saying the things you are.

Originally Posted by tech2enable

the Washington Metro crosses several both Maryland and Virginia, so its not really D.C's system maybe I should start by comparing the entire mta and mta affiliated transit systems or maybe rail systems in the NYC

Of course Metro is DC's system. Its hub-and-spoke design is set up specifically funnel people from outside the central city into it. Simply because it crosses jurisdictional boundaries is meaningless. Regardless, your statement was that DC (as opposed to, I suppose, NY) Metro is a secondary form of transportation. It's like that everywhere--even in New York.

getting back to high housing costs, usually homes are located far from mass transit, which certain people like.

In DC or NY? Some of the DC area's densest developments are built around Metro stations. I don't live in NY and thus can't speak to it, although I would guess their's is much the same. Although I must say, picking a transit fight with the city with the second-highest rate of public transit ridership doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense. Of course NY is going to have a more robust transit system than DC--NY is one of the world's largest cities. Everything pales in comparison.

Besides, D.C as not recognized as a alpha world city, although it is important for politics.

I'm not certain how this is germane to anything being discussed. I don't recall anyone discussing anything about "alpha world cities".

Housing costs in Washington D.C. are not a fraction of New York not even close, in fact if you count transportation options, D.C can be more expensive than many parts of new york city, how much do homes near the Washington metro cost that are not townhouses in better neighborhoods, $2 million, for homes of course that are at least a few thousand square feet.

This makes no sense. You don't compute cost of living by looking only at expensive, non-townhomes. You look at the average cost of a home in the area, coupled with other factors. By any measure, New York is a far more expensive city to live in than DC. For instance, cost of living (which takes all factors, including housing, transportation and cost of goods) in Manhattan is nearly twice as expensive as the DC area. Brooklyn is over 50% higher, and Queens is nearly 15% higher.

Of course there are homes in DC that are as expensive as NY. There are homes in Columbus, Ohio that are pricey too. But that's not how cost of living is calculated.

New York may be a lot of things, but "affordable" is not among them.

The per capita green space is a bit misleading and subjective, there is more to new york city than central park, but even if parkland space was higher per capita, there is more to being green,

Well now you're changing the subject. The issue that was raised wasn't being a "green" city, it had to do with open spaces and parkland--of which DC has a ton. And of course there is more to NY than Central Park, just like there is more to DC than Rock Creek (such as the National Mall).

In the end, tech2enable, you're pretty much proving the point of everyone in this thread who has accused New Yorkers of having a superiority complex. New York is, far and away, the largest city in the country, and one of the largest in the world. Of course there are going to be superlatives associated with that position. But having the "most" of something does not in itself make a city "superior" to others. As I explained in my other post, there are unique qualities and traits about DC that I simply find more attractive than New York. Hard as it may be to believe at times, but not every soul wishes to inhabit the urban utopia known as New York.