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Old 10-17-2009, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Gone Day View Post
I just moved to D.C. in April from upstate N.Y. Although we will be moving to a different neighborhood, from the NW to Brookland, I have lived many places. I visited my son in Portland, OR. and loved it! I am now checking out Seattle. My heart keeps calling me to the PNW. And I'm 52 and need to go where the other old hippies are...
Older hippies? You mean from the 60s and 70s?, as if seattle is the place to call old hippies and not other cities in california and new york?

I am not even sure the old hippies have changed , gotten married, or left the hippist culture, also I've read a lot of hippies have left seattle and its changed, the same can be said for many cities such as SF but I am not sure what you are looking for, it does rain a lot in seattle.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:22 AM
 
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Default I left the DC metro area . . .

and I'm not happier at all. I thought I would be happier moving to a different environment, but I'm not. I can't wait to move back to the DC metro area - hopefully by summer 2010!!!!!
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Old 10-19-2009, 12:13 PM
 
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We left DC for Manhattan over a year ago to pursue certain opportunity. I was quite happy living in DC and didn't want to move, but I always wanted experience living in NYC, so it was a fair exchange. I can't say my quality of life is better in NYC, I can't say I never looked back. In fact, I consider this a temporary situation as I have no attachment to NYC area whatsoever, even though I do love living there. At my age, I am getting tired of sharing walls with my neighbors hearing their every move, hearing their kids and their TVs, and my only option to live in Manhattan is to rent an apartment. Alternatively, I can move to the boroughs or suburbs into a house/rowhouse, but why? The non-Manhattan part of NYC isn't so much different, cheaper or superior to DC IMO, the commute isn't much better, and since we have no ties there, it makes sense to return to DC where we have some family/friends.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT13 View Post
We left DC for Manhattan over a year ago to pursue certain opportunity. I was quite happy living in DC and didn't want to move, but I always wanted experience living in NYC, so it was a fair exchange. I can't say my quality of life is better in NYC, I can't say I never looked back. In fact, I consider this a temporary situation as I have no attachment to NYC area whatsoever, even though I do love living there. At my age, I am getting tired of sharing walls with my neighbors hearing their every move, hearing their kids and their TVs, and my only option to live in Manhattan is to rent an apartment. Alternatively, I can move to the boroughs or suburbs into a house/rowhouse, but why? The non-Manhattan part of NYC isn't so much different, cheaper or superior to DC IMO, the commute isn't much better, and since we have no ties there, it makes sense to return to DC where we have some family/friends.
Of course, personal ties may make it easier to live in an area, but you are misleading people when you say that the non-manhattan parts of new york city isn't much different or cheaper than DC.

Also parts of new york city in particularly areas of brooklyn have had falling rents and slashed condo prices. I'm pretty sure DC residents are used to hearing their neighbors in townhouses, if there is a lot of noise its not because you live in manhattan, but rather your living situation.

Perhaps if D.C. prices fall a bit more, then it may be more reasonable, also you cannot compare the two transit systems at the same price range.

This isn't new, its been like this over the last 5 years or so, I remember even back in 2004, dc area homes were as expensive as new york city homes, before the housing bubble, now they went up but went down but still just as expensive. To justify the expensiveness people tend to overrate D.C. supposed qualify of life, in which part of the contribution, the laid back lifestyle and land is much more expensive than even south of the border.

I guess those lobbyists and contractors are rich and price the real estate higher than it would normally carry, so as to distort what you get for the money.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
Of course, personal ties may make it easier to live in an area, but you are misleading people when you say that the non-manhattan parts of new york city isn't much different or cheaper than DC.

Also parts of new york city in particularly areas of brooklyn have had falling rents and slashed condo prices. I'm pretty sure DC residents are used to hearing their neighbors in townhouses, if there is a lot of noise its not because you live in manhattan, but rather your living situation.

Perhaps if D.C. prices fall a bit more, then it may be more reasonable, also you cannot compare the two transit systems at the same price range.

This isn't new, its been like this over the last 5 years or so, I remember even back in 2004, dc area homes were as expensive as new york city homes, before the housing bubble, now they went up but went down but still just as expensive. To justify the expensiveness people tend to overrate D.C. supposed qualify of life, in which part of the contribution, the laid back lifestyle and land is much more expensive than even south of the border.

I guess those lobbyists and contractors are rich and price the real estate higher than it would normally carry, so as to distort what you get for the money.
Here you are again, perpetuating the same nonsense about COL in DC being the same or higher than in NYC. And again you are trying to force-feed people with the entire useless argument on quality of life. Quality of life is a subjective issue and is a personal opinion based on one's personal experience. Always. You cannot change someone's experiences, their thoughts, or their opinions, so just let it go. I am sorry it's so hard for you to understand that some people find quality of life in DC to be decent and can afford to live there. You also seem to turn your blind eye to any of the rational arguments people present showing you that outside of very prime areas and still close to metro and amenities you can find decently priced rowhouses. You also want to insist on comparing the most prime areas of DC to Queens and Brooklyn and ignoring the entire island of Manhattan.

FYI, it's much more different experience living in your own rowhouse than in an apartment. Not having neighbors above your head and having solid brick wall(s) separate you from your neighbors on the side is a different type of privacy than an apartment where you can hear every step from your neighbors upstairs and on the sides. When I lived in a rowhouse I could only hear my neighbors when they would throw a party. Now I can hear every pin drop. A 2 bedroom average quality condo in Manhattan in comparison with the real solid rowhouse in a nice area of DC? I find my quality of life better in the latter accommodations, no matter how much you tend to disagree. And I am sorry if I am not overly thrilled with Queens and Brooklyn, the annoying hectic commute I would have to endure and the still expensive price I would have to pay. I used to walk to work, metro and amenities when I lived in DC, now I walk to work, amenities and metro in Manhattan - fair exchange? Yes. In DC I could get a rowhouse, in Manhattan it would be a run of the mill average 2 bedroom condo with the astronomical condo fee. Fair exchange? Not to me, although if others disagree, that's their personal opinion. I am not changing mine.

Having a family/friends definitely helps, but it's not the sole factor that determines the desirability of the area and forces people's decisions. as a matter of fact, I have more ties to SF area than I do to DC, much more. But I don't consider SF a place I would move back to for various reasons as I don't find my quality of life there to be better even having a larger network.
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Old 10-19-2009, 02:50 PM
 
656 posts, read 1,417,805 times
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quote=KT13;11256527]Here you are again, perpetuating the same nonsense about COL in DC being the same or higher than in NYC. And again you are trying to force-feed people with the entire useless argument on quality of life. Quality of life is a subjective issue and is a personal opinion based on one's personal experience. Always.

Agree, but its misrepresentated, many people who move to D.C. find what you get for the money as far as amenities and other features are overpriced, many folks say they are just in the DC metro just for the cash, that itself says things, also if you can find the same QOL regarding the same subjective preferences or features for a lower price, then you can conclude there are external factors thay make the price higher.

You cannot change someone's experiences, their thoughts, or their opinions, so just let it go. I am sorry it's so hard for you to understand that some people find quality of life in DC to be decent and can afford to live there. You also seem to turn your blind eye to any of the rational arguments people present showing you that outside of very prime areas and still close to metro and amenities you can find decently priced rowhouses. You also want to insist on comparing the most prime areas of DC to Queens and Brooklyn and ignoring the entire island of Manhattan.


Really, perhaps you ought to send me various links to homes and townhouses in decent areas in D.C. close to the metro (not 10-15 blocks), in low-crime areas with decent schools, even alexandria and arlington (although the latter is more suburban) that are in great condition and low noise that are over 3000 square feet.

I've looked at several homes, they are just expensive and its been that way even back in 2004 before the housing boom.

FYI, it's much more different experience living in your own rowhouse than in an apartment. Not having neighbors above your head and having solid brick wall(s) separate you from your neighbors on the side is a different type of privacy than an apartment where you can hear every step from your neighbors upstairs and on the sides. When I lived in a rowhouse I could only hear my neighbors when they would throw a party. Now I can hear every pin drop. A 2 bedroom average quality condo in Manhattan in comparison with the real solid rowhouse in a nice area of DC? I find my quality of life better in the latter accommodations, no matter how much you tend to disagree. And I am sorry if I am not overly thrilled with Queens and Brooklyn, the annoying hectic commute I would have to endure and the still expensive price I would have to pay. I used to walk to work, metro and amenities when I lived in DC, now I walk to work, amenities and metro in Manhattan - fair exchange? Yes. In DC I could get a rowhouse, in Manhattan it would be a run of the mill average 2 bedroom condo with the astronomical condo fee. Fair exchange? Not to me, although if others disagree, that's their personal opinion. I am not changing mine.

It may be true living in a row house may help, but that does not change the neighbor issue, you may have a quiet neighbor who could be a nuisance such as not maintaining the property in great condition or a loud neighbor who always has foot traffic, cars at night, and music and party playing.

Your supposed "fair exchange" is wrong and misleading, its wrong to compare manhattan to D.C. , if that's the case why don't we compare downtown atlanta or houston with D.C. , anything you can get in D.C., you can get in areas in brooklyn or queens closer to manhattan for the same price.

Having a family/friends definitely helps, but it's not the sole factor that determines the desirability of the area and forces people's decisions. as a matter of fact, I have more ties to SF area than I do to DC, much more. But I don't consider SF a place I would move back to for various reasons as I don't find my quality of life there to be better even having a larger network.[/quote]

Last edited by FlyDrive100b; 10-19-2009 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:24 PM
 
583 posts, read 1,250,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post

Agree, but its misrepresentated, many people who move to D.C. find what you get for the money as far as amenities and other features are overpriced, many folks say they are just in the DC metro just for the cash, that itself says things, also if you can find the same QOL regarding the same subjective preferences or features for a lower price, then you can conclude there are external factors thay make the price higher.
dear tech2enable, you cannot tell people what 'subjective preferences' they are supposed to have. People are all different and have different preferences, presented with the same information and same choices people will and do make different decisions. You have to learn to understand that you cannot control what people like and don't like. As far as being in a certain area just for the cash, please , do you truly believe this is only DC that people move to for the cash? How about the entire hype about NYC 'fields of gold' and hoards of young people trying to make it there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
Really, perhaps you ought to send me various links to homes and townhouses in decent areas in D.C. close to the metro (not 10-15 blocks), in low-crime areas with decent schools, even alexandria and arlington (although the latter is more suburban) that are in great condition and low noise that are over 3000 square feet.
Oh, I am sorry that your highness needs at least 3000 sq ft of space in a super-prime area to be comfy . I also would be completely happy in a rowhouse in Manhattan West Village or a penthouse apartment somewhere by the Central Park. Now, that's the 'quality of life' we are talking about, none of that nonsense about 'middle management' housing. Here is the news: 3000 sq ft house in prime area of DC IS NOT a middle management housing you are so much concerned about. Yes, I cannot find anything for you in Dupont or Georgetown with 3000 sq ft for under a million, sorry. And if prices fall 'a bit' like you are saying, sorry to disappoint you, it still won't be even close to 1 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
I've looked at several homes, they are just expensive and its been that way even back in 2004 before the housing boom.

shouldn't this say you something? Hint: If prices were that high before the boom and before the recession and the entire 'media controlled over-glorification' of the DC area federal job market then ... think about it for a bit and fill in the blanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
It may be true living in a row house may help, but that does not change the neighbor issue, you may have a quiet neighbor who could be a nuisance such as not maintaining the property in great condition or a loud neighbor who always has foot traffic, cars at night, and music and party playing.
Yes, I am aware that you can have bad neighbors everywhere, even in deep suburbia with your detached single family house you can have a lot of nonsense dealing with neighbors external noise. I've been there as well. I am not talking about 'bad' neighbors here, just regular folks going on about their day and by means of sharing thinner walls with my apartment I hear more from them that I want to hear. Not that they want to make noise or trying to. I am pretty sure my neighbors can say the same about me, it's not the people around you as much as it's the type of dwelling I was referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
Your supposed "fair exchange" is wrong and misleading, its wrong to compare manhattan to D.C. , if that's the case why don't we compare downtown atlanta or houston with D.C. , anything you can get in D.C., you can get in areas in brooklyn or queens closer to manhattan for the same price.
When I was saying 'fair exchange', it refers to my personal opinion, something you cannot seem to grasp. I determine what is the 'fair exchange' FOR ME.
I don't want to live in Brooklyn or Queens, I don't want to have to hike to the subway or a train, I want to walk to work (just like you want to live in a 3000 sq foot house) or have a very short direct subway/metro ride. I will be happy living in a 1500 sq. ft house, but I value ability to have short commute over the square footage. Again, personal preferences. I want to be able to walk to multiple parks and river front, restaurants, movie theaters, museums and pretty squares and buildings, all of which I was able to do in DC and can do in Manhattan. I could walk to the National Mall, Smithsonian, to the White House, stroll along the beautiful mansions on Embassy Row or quaint rowhouses in Georgetown, have a sandwich and people-watch on a bench at Dupont, and go to all the events happening in the city without worrying even to get into the overcrowded metro not to mention not worrying about driving. I can do similar things in Manhattan. Can I do the same in Brooklyn or Queens?

I compare DC to Manhattan because IMO, it's a fair comparison, you always compare prime area with prime area, city center with city center, not city center with the borough or a suburb. Also, I have no qualms comparing Atlanta or Houston, go ahead and compare. Just like Manhattan is not the same as DC in terms of cost, same is true about DC not being the same level as Atlanta, what's the problem here? Different cities, different COL.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:26 PM
 
656 posts, read 1,417,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT13 View Post
dear tech2enable, you cannot tell people what 'subjective preferences' they are supposed to have. People are all different and have different preferences, presented with the same information and same choices people will and do make different decisions. You have to learn to understand that you cannot control what people like and don't like. As far as being in a certain area just for the cash, please , do you truly believe this is only DC that people move to for the cash? How about the entire hype about NYC 'fields of gold' and hoards of young people trying to make it there?


Nope, many people live in Northern Virginia just for the cash, sure amenities may help people stay but its not the overwhelming part of the story. D.C. is very highly dependent on government and the salaries and what many people make are out of whack not only for housing costs but what you have to do.


People wouldn't then commute from west Virginia then
and still pay a ton of money for housing.



Oh, I am sorry that your highness needs at least 3000 sq ft of space in a super-prime area to be comfy . I also would be completely happy in a rowhouse in Manhattan West Village or a penthouse apartment somewhere by the Central Park. Now, that's the 'quality of life' we are talking about, none of that nonsense about 'middle management' housing. Here is the news: 3000 sq ft house in prime area of DC IS NOT a middle management housing you are so much concerned about. Yes, I cannot find anything for you in Dupont or Georgetown with 3000 sq ft for under a million, sorry. And if prices fall 'a bit' like you are saying, sorry to disappoint you, it still won't be even close to 1 million.

First of all, I was comparing two row houses against D.C. vs. new york city .Second, Manhattan doesn't have middle management housing as you pointed out in another post. Third, prices may very well fall to close to $1 million, and if the previous poster is correct on the other forum and you agree with him, then prices are probably closer to a million anyway, but I believe that was a rarer or special exception.

shouldn't this say you something? Hint: If prices were that high before the boom and before the recession and the entire 'media controlled over-glorification' of the DC area federal job market then ... think about it for a bit and fill in the blanks.


I was referring to the national housing boom, but the high prices did start a few years earlier in 2001-2002.


Yes, I am aware that you can have bad neighbors everywhere, even in deep suburbia with your detached single family house you can have a lot of nonsense dealing with neighbors external noise. I've been there as well. I am not talking about 'bad' neighbors here, just regular folks going on about their day and by means of sharing thinner walls with my apartment I hear more from them that I want to hear. Not that they want to make noise or trying to. I am pretty sure my neighbors can say the same about me, it's not the people around you as much as it's the type of dwelling I was referring to.

People do not like to have people on top of them in their houses, I know which is an argument against rowhouses and sometimes an argument in favor of side-by side houses unless your units are at the bottom.


When I was saying 'fair exchange', it refers to my personal opinion, something you cannot seem to grasp. I determine what is the 'fair exchange' FOR ME.
I don't want to live in Brooklyn or Queens, I don't want to have to hike to the subway or a train, I want to walk to work (just like you want to live in a 3000 sq foot house) or have a very short direct subway/metro ride. I will be happy living in a 1500 sq. ft house, but I value ability to have short commute over the square footage. Again, personal preferences. I want to be able to walk to multiple parks and river front, restaurants, movie theaters, museums and pretty squares and buildings, all of which I was able to do in DC and can do in Manhattan. I could walk to the National Mall, Smithsonian, to the White House, stroll along the beautiful mansions on Embassy Row or quaint rowhouses in Georgetown, have a sandwich and people-watch on a bench at Dupont, and go to all the events happening in the city without worrying even to get into the overcrowded metro not to mention not worrying about driving. I can do similar things in Manhattan. Can I do the same in Brooklyn or Queens?

Yes, you can do the same to Brooklyn or Queens, as far walking to work well not every job is going to be close to every person's residence , your job could be in downtown D.C. or maybe in arlington, VA so its not a fair comparison, closer to work is a better analogy.

I compare DC to Manhattan because IMO, it's a fair comparison, you always compare prime area with prime area, city center with city center, not city center with the borough or a suburb. Also, I have no qualms comparing Atlanta or Houston, go ahead and compare. Just like Manhattan is not the same as DC in terms of cost, same is true about DC not being the same level as Atlanta, what's the problem here? Different cities, different COL.
It's not a fair comparison, so you want to make an even fairer argument about seattle , dallas, even chicago prices vs. D.C. - I've establised that prices in D.C. are expensive, you said that a 3000 sq foot house would cost well over $1 million dollars, and middle-management housing in D.C. is close to new york city prices.

This is exactly why people are leaving D.C. and if they could, won't live there due to the housing costs influenced by other factors.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Rockville, MD
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Originally Posted by tech2enable View Post
many folks say they are just in the DC metro just for the cash
Name one.

And let me guess: no one ever moves to NYC for money or their career...it's all about the "experience", right?
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Old 10-19-2009, 09:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 14thandYou View Post
Name one.

And let me guess: no one ever moves to NYC for money or their career...it's all about the "experience", right?
I think your missing the point, recently over the last couple of decades D.C. area has has lots of developments and booms, in part because of government and government related support systems, many folks are drawn there for jobs, and may appreciate what the D.C. has to offer but would prefer to really live elsewhere even though the amenities may help keep them , a lot of people say they are just their for the cash.

It seems true, given a lot of posters feelings especially regarding the suburbs, D.C. proper may be different, but this contributes to the entire area's high home costs.

The end consumer gets the short end of the stick a lot of times, sadly.
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